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  1. #1
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    Default Am I too gung Ho?

    My wife thinks I am nuts, after my confined space rescue class I was bitten by some sort of bug. The knowledge and idea of using rope and related gear to perform rescue just seems like the best thing since sliced bread (I mean I really love it). My wife gives me heck for buying my own rescue gear (Which I use for practice). I just signed up for a LARRO class on my own dime since our agency is private and training funds are short in supply. Is this nuts? After LARRO I want to take RESCUE Systems 1, then maybe I won't ask such silly questions.

    Thanks


  2. #2
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    This is one of those post you wish you never made...

  3. #3
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelXYZ View Post
    This is one of those post you wish you never made...
    Why? It's a legitimate question.

    The main thing is whether your department has the desire to get into rope rescue. If they won't support the effort by equipping you and encouraging others to train as well, you might be wasting your time and money. But if they're favorable, you could be the start of a really good program in your department.

    So no, you are not nuts. Your initiative is admirable.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  4. #4
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    Default

    It's a fair question. We've probably all been there to varying degrees. We learn a new skill or technique and we want to use it.

    In addition to EastKY's comments, if this is affecting your family life, you may be taking it too far. We all spend money on things that the next guy wouldn't. If the spending is coming out of extra money, probably not a problem, but if you are spending money that should go to necessities, or going into debt, then you may be too gung-ho.

  5. #5
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    After briefly looking at the class outlines for for both LARRO and Rescue Systems 1, I think you might be better off saving your money and going with a non state sponsored program. It looks like they are cramming a LOT of different disciplines in one class, particularly with the RS1 class. You're probably not going to get a good feel for ANY of the disciplines if they are covering so many topics in a week.

    The LARRO looks like a good start and looks to be focused on rope. It's also relatively inexpensive. Give that one a shot to get your feet wet and then look somewhere else for a class that is dedicated to rope for the entire week.
    I used to be DCFDRescue 2. Forum changover locked me out.

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  6. #6
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    Default

    Thank for the input guys, and thanks for making me not feel silly for my post. Thanks R2T, well for the LARRO class, I already paid for it and it was fairly inexpensive, so I am going ahead with that one. We covered much of the LARRO training in my confined space tech class, so yes much of it is redundant, but I am thinking it just builds on what we previously learned (Kinda like math).

    The classes I am taking are offered at a CC about 2 hours North of here and are held by a Metro fire agency, so I think I will get some good learning in. The RS1 class is being held shortly after the LARRO so I need to decide soon before registration deadlines and I do get 1.5 U college credits so thats cool.

    I was thinking LARRO and RS1 were nationwide, not state specific, is this not the case? I was wondering, is there a title for someone who has taken all the rescue classes, something like rescue tech specialist or something?

    Thanks for your patience

  7. #7
    Forum Member FiremanLyman's Avatar
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    There is not really a national standard for Rescue Technicians, more department specific until you enter the FEMA system. The FEMA US&R teams have a Rescue Specialist position, with focas being on Structural Collapse. To get to the Structural Collapse Technician level that person has gone through; Rope, Confined Space, Trench, HAZMAT, Water, Vehicle & Machine, and a host of other certs. There are many other positions, links to each job description at the bottom of this page; http://usar.tamu.edu/join/Pages/default.aspx
    ~Drew
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  8. #8
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    There is not really a national standard for Rescue Technicians, more department specific until you enter the FEMA system. The FEMA US&R teams have a Rescue Specialist position, with focas being on Structural Collapse. To get to the Structural Collapse Technician level that person has gone through; Rope, Confined Space, Trench, HAZMAT, Water, Vehicle & Machine, and a host of other certs. There are many other positions, links to each job description at the bottom of this page; http://usar.tamu.edu/join/Pages/default.aspx
    Based on those requirements listed in your link, the RS1 class sounds like a good idea, the RS1 task book.
    http://www.glendale.edu/fire/Documen.../HR1Manual.pdf

    1 week does seem rather short to cover all the things listed in the task book.

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    It sounds to me like all this may be for naught if the department chooses not to get on board, as any type of rescue operation requires a trained team, including a equally trained partner for entry, and backup and support personnel. Without that department team, you will simply not be able to operate and not utilize your training.

    Quite honestly, before you spend any more money or time, i would see if the department is interested in starting a rescue program.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It sounds to me like all this may be for naught if the department chooses not to get on board, as any type of rescue operation requires a trained team, including a equally trained partner for entry, and backup and support personnel. Without that department team, you will simply not be able to operate and not utilize your training.

    Quite honestly, before you spend any more money or time, i would see if the department is interested in starting a rescue program.
    Or you may be the one guy that convinces the department of the need for this type of training and equipment.

    Try not to be like Homer:
    "Trying is the first step toward failing, so why bother?" - Homer Simpson
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    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I seem to remember this from "way back when"....RS 1 and 2 are precursors to the FEMA SCT training and were developed by the State of California as a standard for thier collapse response teams. If my memory serves me, I think RS1 and 2 were actually required to take FEMA SCT when it first rolled out. RS 1 and 2 are still used in California and I think these are their main rescue classes (I am certain you can specialize at some point). As California was one of a few states with a real rescue certification, many stated used this program. The military actually follows a similar model except it's RS1 on steriods!!

    It's a good class; I took a version of it almost 20 years ago after I had some training in all the disciplines....It's a lot to take in and is pretty fast pace. From what I remember it doesn't really follow the current NFPA 1006 Pro-Qual matrix of Core +; that is Chapter 5 material plus the speciality. If you're looking to take the certification outside of California, I doubt you'd get any equivalency for it...Unless Cali gives a certification test for each discipline within the program.

    As far as being gung-ho...Firehouse should hire you as co-moderator.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue 2 Training View Post
    Or you may be the one guy that convinces the department of the need for this type of training and equipment.

    Try not to be like Homer:
    "Trying is the first step toward failing, so why bother?" - Homer Simpson
    He may be. And maybe his training will give him the tyope of information that he could use to convince the department to become involved in special rescue operations.

    That being said though, personally I would be very wary of investing too much of my own time, and especially my own money, into very specilized rescue training and hardware unless I have a pretty good feeling that the department is going to come along.

    Given that we have no idea of the department type, funding situation, community and building demographics that may or may not justify the need for special rescue operations capability in the department, I would still reccommend feeling the department out pretty seriously before making the type of financial committment the OP seems to be making with the possibility of never being able to use those skills or equipment.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  13. #13
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    Well, I work for an industrial brigade, our primary function is confined space safety and rescue. Our company just acquired some Type I apparatus and I foresee our roles expanding. I envision that by expanding my own knowledge base in rescue that I will be a more useful employee. And to go one step further, I would like to use what I learn to help the others I work with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelXYZ View Post
    Well, I work for an industrial brigade, our primary function is confined space safety and rescue. Our company just acquired some Type I apparatus and I foresee our roles expanding. I envision that by expanding my own knowledge base in rescue that I will be a more useful employee. And to go one step further, I would like to use what I learn to help the others I work with.
    Givben that scenario, you seem to be on the right path.

    I was under the impression you were on a fire department that did not currently do specialized rescue.

    Then carry on forthwith with all due speed brother.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #15
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Default

    After reviewing the task book you posted, I find it IMPOSSIBLE to cover everything it contains and have every student have even the slightest clue as to what they have just learned in one week. Our breakdown goes like this, and it still is not enough time:

    Rope- 80 hrs.
    Confined Space- 40 hrs.
    Trench- 40 hrs.
    Structural Collapse- 80 hrs.

    Like I said, this was still not enough time to teach everything that was needed. The took people from zero rescue experience and had them at the technician level of each discipline in the amount of time given.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  16. #16
    Forum Member FiremanLyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    After reviewing the task book you posted, I find it IMPOSSIBLE to cover everything it contains and have every student have even the slightest clue as to what they have just learned in one week. Our breakdown goes like this, and it still is not enough time:

    Rope- 80 hrs.
    Confined Space- 40 hrs.
    Trench- 40 hrs.
    Structural Collapse- 80 hrs.

    Like I said, this was still not enough time to teach everything that was needed. The took people from zero rescue experience and had them at the technician level of each discipline in the amount of time given.
    I agree, though I do not see this class as a bad thing... IF when people leave this class they are not considered a Tech, or even OPS level in the disiplines. I would veiw this class as an Overveiw of US&R class, or Intro to.
    ~Drew
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  17. #17
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    LARRO is a required pre-req for the RS1 class.

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