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Thread: Wildfires Mean End of the World

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    I'm kinda on the fence about the whole renewable energy thing vs. the fossil fuel debate. On one hand, the renewable energy is a step in the right direction, on the other hand, little has changed. Take agriculture for example, growers were allowed to burn all ag related by- prouducts, this included the empty chemical containers, raisin trays that were treated to resist water, all prunings and even whole orchard and vineyard crops that were pushed to the middle of a field and burned. Here it virtually went unchecked for as long as I can remember.

    Then the power cogeneration plants started springing up, and those same crops that were burned, were now being ground up and sent to a plant to fire huge steam boilers that powered generators. How much Carbon monoxide can an industrial multi-cone air scrubber clean? Probably not that much, but some jabroni is making wads of cash on it because someone bigger than him said it does.

    Just last month, my Ford needed a freon boost. I went to the parts house to buy a couple of cans of R134. I hadn't been there in a couple of years for freon but I plopped the cans on the counter and much to my suprise, there was a $10 per can core charge, a special valve that you had to purchase to extract the freon, and orders to bring the cans back without damage to them. You see, now in the name of protecting the environment some chupacabra came up with a way to vacum out the empty cans and destroy them himself, all for $10 a can...nice. What irked me about this is that I can buy a 15lb can of R134 and there is no core charge or EPA warnings attached. They could care less at this point if I let 200 cans of freon out into the atmosphere through a 15lb cylinder, just as long as I dont let the bottom of a 6oz can escape.
    Somebody is making some serious dough protecting us from our own demise.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    . Yet all you want to do is focus on the federal support for companies who failed by engaging in a program started during the Bush Administration.
    All you want to do is focus on the fact that the companies benefitting from the programs started by the Bush Administration were given millions upon millions of dollars, and then declared bankruptcy under your village idiot community organizer.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 08-21-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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    Arrow Ho Hum......

    Quite Frankly Gentlemen, Does anyone give a Rat's Behind?? I know that I don't..... I was born in 1941, and I've planned on being here (Yes, HERE, harrassing y'all) until 2041. However, I've got so damn much to do, and I'm so far behind, that I'll probably see 3041 go by....... Anyway, why can't we do the following, in no particular order...... A. Make one kind of Gasoline, with 3 or 4 octane levels. The current idea that we have all these Boutique Blends because of Air Pollution is crazy. Pollution (and the EPA) be damned. Cheap Gas should be the first thing on everyone's agenda. B. Government costs money to run. Let's save some money and abolish the EPA. C. Come up with a realistic Transportation Policy that would reduce Fuel use. IE: If it goes more that 500 miles, put it on a Train or a Barge. If you have 200 Fifty Three foot Containers in Long Beach and you want them in New York, you currently have 3 Choices. A Box Boat, via the Panama Canal. B. 200 Truck Tractors, each pulling a Trailer @ 6 Miles per Gallon or 500 Gallons per Truck for the Trip (100,000 Gallons total) or C. Put them on a Train @ 2 Gallons per Mile per Locomotive (3 needed) for 18,000 Gallons..... Anyway, Back to the Subject matter of this Thread. No, The World is NOT Burning Up.
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    Harve.. the "boutique blends" are necessary because of the varying temperature ranges and altitudes of the country.

    The EPA is necessary.. look at the the air and water quality in some of the thrid world hellholes and in China. I like clean air and clean water.

    A realistic long haul transportation solution? Agree with. Many trailer units already go by train as a means of getting the products to the final consumer.

    The orginal premise of this thread? It's not the end of the world according to the Mayan calendar or any calendar.

    PS: Harve... I beleive you will be around past 2041, kicking @$$ and taking names!
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 08-23-2012 at 09:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Once again, I would like to personnally thank you for your thoughtful and meaningful contribution to the discussion.

    Please feel free to contribute in the future.
    You're very welcome. It's always an honor to slap you around given your nonsensical ramblings.

    As far as global warming is concerned, the majority of the climatologists believe it is not only real, but man made. Even an individual who was until recently a skeptic has changed his position.

    I'll take the word of folks who are knowledgeable on the topic any day over the FH Forum's version of Cliff Claven.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    All you want to do is focus on the fact that the companies benefitting from the programs started by the Bush Administration were given millions upon millions of dollars, and then declared bankruptcy under your village idiot community organizer.
    Sorry if the fact that Bush started a program (supported by numerous conservatives) is now an inconvenient fact.

    I totally get why republicans want to forget the Bush Administration. He inherited a relatively healthy economy and proceeded to hand off a complete disaster. Aside from never taking responsibility for the financial meltdown, they now blame the current president for not cleaning up their mess fast enough.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You're very welcome. It's always an honor to slap you around given your nonsensical ramblings.

    As far as global warming is concerned, the majority of the climatologists believe it is not only real, but man made. Even an individual who was until recently a skeptic has changed his position.

    I'll take the word of folks who are knowledgeable on the topic any day over the FH Forum's version of Cliff Claven.
    Ya, right.

    And if they are wrong about global warming being linked to CO emissions Obama's grand scheme to take our country away from proven energy sources such as coal and gasoline to windmills,, solar and switchgrass will have destroyed the economy for naught.

    Sorry but I like my cheap energy from coal and natural gas and don'r mind my car being fired by old fashioned gasoline. And I don't want some liberal president (notice the lack of caps) trying to take it away from me because of his misguided liberal, socialist enviroment-wacko agenda.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ya, right.

    And if they are wrong about global warming being linked to CO emissions Obama's grand scheme to take our country away from proven energy sources such as coal and gasoline to windmills,, solar and switchgrass will have destroyed the economy for naught.

    Sorry but I like my cheap energy from coal and natural gas and don'r mind my car being fired by old fashioned gasoline. And I don't want some liberal president (notice the lack of caps) trying to take it away from me because of his misguided liberal, socialist enviroment-wacko agenda.
    I'll take the word of those who actually study the topic over you. Funny how you are gung-ho on certs to make a feeble attempt at credibility yet discard the credentials of those who have actually bothered to make this field their life's work.

    Not that I expected anything else from a blowhard like you.

    BTW, I always like it when right wingnuts call me a socialist. Given how that term is bandied about by conservatives throw the term around to the point where it lacks meaning.

    Jon Stewart described the conservative's mindset on socialism best:

    Can't we just admit that a Socialist is someone who wants to spend government money on s*** you don't like?
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-22-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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    Isn't it funny that nobody has tied the Dust Bowl to global warming?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Isn't it funny that nobody has tied the Dust Bowl to global warming?

    Good Point!!........ But, That was too long ago to be a part of the current conspiracy......
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Isn't it funny that nobody has tied the Dust Bowl to global warming?
    Mostly caused by lousy farming practices and land management made worse by a drought. A localized event with little to do with global warming, I would think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    BTW, I always like it when right wingnuts call me a socialist. Given how that term is bandied about by conservatives throw the term around to the point where it lacks meaning.
    His rants mean even less when you consider he has no problem cashing his government issued check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ya, right.

    And if they are wrong about global warming being linked to CO emissions Obama's grand scheme to take our country away from proven energy sources such as coal and gasoline to windmills,, solar and switchgrass will have destroyed the economy for naught.
    BS. Introducing new energy sources will do nothing but preserve our current sources. Delaying research and implementation of new technology is only putting off the inevitable. The only people affected in any way will be fossil fuel folks, who will have to settle for a little less profit. If anything, it will serve to drive down the cost of fossil fuels, as there will be less of a demand for them. Once again, idiotic attitudes like yours will result in America being, once again, left behind as the rest of the world moves into the future, while the fossil fuel companies rake in billions in profits and subsidies in the short term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    His rants mean even less when you consider he has no problem cashing his government issued check.
    He's no different than one of my very conservative neighbors who works in the aerospace community. Rants and raves about taxes as if his paycheck and lifestyle would exist were it not for the taxation of others.

    He's just like VP candidate Paul Ryan. He is the embodiment of everything a modern Republican hopes to be. He talks like he cares about the nation or community, pockets the money at every turn, and never seems to be held accountable when his actions are 180-degrees from his words.

    IN LAFE's case, his livelihood is from an activity that could go away tomorrow, and no one would notice.
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-23-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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    Response deleted.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-23-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You're very welcome. It's always an honor to slap you around given your nonsensical ramblings.

    As far as global warming is concerned, the majority of the climatologists believe it is not only real, but man made. Even an individual who was until recently a skeptic has changed his position.

    I'll take the word of folks who are knowledgeable on the topic any day over the FH Forum's version of Cliff Claven.
    The jury is still out on that, but a lot of the so-called "facts" have been exposed as made up to promote the green agenda. But don't get me wrong, I like a clean world, and we've made great strides to tidy up our little corner. But the stuff like the EPA's proposal to regulate dust from farming is just ludicrous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    The jury is still out on that, but a lot of the so-called "facts" have been exposed as made up to promote the green agenda. But don't get me wrong, I like a clean world, and we've made great strides to tidy up our little corner. But the stuff like the EPA's proposal to regulate dust from farming is just ludicrous.
    Actually that isn't the case. The majority of climatologists believe the issue is real and caused by man.

    Even deniers are starting to come around.

    Again, I put more trust in those who actually study the issue and have real science as support. The denier crowd has done no research of its own.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Scfire86, I’m not sure which climatologists you run with but the weather anthropologist for the NWS and several universities will argue with them. The climatologists that work on global weather patterns say that while there is some local and in some cases regional weather changes that are influenced by man made events, nothing has proven that there is a worldwide global warming on the scale the news media has reported. The changes in the weather that are taking place in the US and Canada are because of shifts in the jet streams caused by cooling of the Pacific and warming of the northern Atlantic, both naturally occurring patterns that have been repeated over and over in history, its just they do not always happen at the same time like it is now. according to the scientist, we are coming off a 100 year pattern of above normal calm and nice weather and entering into a more normal 100 years of volatile and violent weather shifts.

    Global warming was a grad student's project based on a small set of data to make a computer program. The results were never repeated with any other program. The global warming “scientists” have been caught doctoring data on several occasions but it sells the news, so what if its bad science.

    Global warming, freon and the ozone layer, cholesterol, omega 3, and fish oils are all the hot topics because of a half done study that was published and the news media ran with it. Now before anyone jumps on me for including cholesterol, the current findings are questioning the over use and effectiveness of some cholesterol meds and cholesterol diets in controlling heart disease. While controlling cholesterol is a good thing for some it is not the magic solution it was sold as.

    While I’m on my soap box, wind and solar energy for generating electricity are totally a waste of tax payer money. Of all of the wind generators built, not 1 has paid for itself. Even with the high cost of electricity on the coasts, the generator will wear out and have to be replaced before it will pay for itself. If you want to make your own “cheap” electricity, and have access to natural gas, invest in a small steam generator for your basement. You can heat your house and domestic water with the exhaust steam, all for slightly more than the cost of heating your house with natural gas. Just my opinion.

    Brad

    PS: I know putting a steam generator in your basement is not legal or safe if not done to code. It would also be cost prohibitive for most single family dwellings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowbreaker View Post
    Scfire86, I’m not sure which climatologists you run with but the weather anthropologist for the NWS and several universities will argue with them. The climatologists that work on global weather patterns say that while there is some local and in some cases regional weather changes that are influenced by man made events, nothing has proven that there is a worldwide global warming on the scale the news media has reported. The changes in the weather that are taking place in the US and Canada are because of shifts in the jet streams caused by cooling of the Pacific and warming of the northern Atlantic, both naturally occurring patterns that have been repeated over and over in history, its just they do not always happen at the same time like it is now. according to the scientist, we are coming off a 100 year pattern of above normal calm and nice weather and entering into a more normal 100 years of volatile and violent weather shifts.
    What would it take to prove to you that the majority of climatologists believe global warming is real and is being caused by man?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowbreaker View Post
    PS: I know putting a steam generator in your basement is not legal or safe if not done to code. It would also be cost prohibitive for most single family dwellings.
    What is a steam generator and what is the difference between that and a boiler? I have hot water radiator heat in my house. Water is heated by a gas-fired direct vent boiler that I had installed new in 2007, cost about $4900 which also included a thermally-efficient storage tank for the hot water that the boiler also heats. When you are done using the heat for the heating season, you throw a valve, and then it only heats water for hot water use. We also have an electronic sensor that measures the outside air temp when it is in heat mode- the colder it is outside, the harder it "tells" the boiler and the pump to work. This all replaced a gas fired boiler that was installed in 1958, that was the size of a volkswagon. Monthly gas bill could be as high as $500. New boiler is the size of a dishwasher and now heating tab a month is $150.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What would it take to prove to you that the majority of climatologists believe global warming is real and is being caused by man?
    A group of individuals not associated in any way with the US Gubmint, any liberal environmental groups or have any interest in any kind of green energy with appropriate credentials to tell me so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    A group of individuals not associated in any way with the US Gubmint, any liberal environmental groups or have any interest in any kind of green energy with appropriate credentials to tell me so.
    So who does that leave? Are the groups that are associated and funded by the fossil fuel industry that are deniers acceptable as being objective?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So who does that leave? Are the groups that are associated and funded by the fossil fuel industry that are deniers acceptable as being objective?
    In fairness to you, no they are not.
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