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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Been here two months and you are already pulling the "I forgot what my own post said" syndrome.
    Been here 7 years and you still don't know how to read and comprehend a forum post.

    I never said I forgot what my post said I know EXACTLY what my post said, and that first video shows EXACTLY what my post was talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Now THAT'S funny!!!

    I bet Vinny has already seen more fire in one busy weekend in his firehouse than you have and will see for the rest of your natural career........
    And yet... he acts like he does not know the dangers of a back draft or flash over. Interesting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post

    And yet... he acts like he does not know the dangers of a back draft or flash over. Interesting.
    I agree with you! Scene safeyt is paramount. No telling how many looky loo's or rubber neckers can wander into the path of a backdraft at the exact moment it happens on every fire.
    Good of you to bring this to our attention. This is something we should be training on all the time.

    How many flashovers and backdrafts have you been caught in? I'm still around because we get there after it happens, and fortunately no bystanders are ever hurt when it happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Been here 7 years and you still don't know how to read and comprehend a forum post.

    I never said I forgot what my post said I know EXACTLY what my post said, and that first video shows EXACTLY what my post was talking about.
    No...you don't have a clue. I've read over all your posts about 50 or so.....and each one is very leading to the fact that you are naive in many facets of the fire service. First, your tag line is a stupid quote from a stupid movie.....and then you elude to the fact that the you close off the street before your actually make a move in for a size up....but your video posts are contradictory. The first was a well advanced fire and well into the operation....notice the master streams operating on the sidewalk. Most places leave the front open in those cases and move to operate on the corners, mostly because of the collapse potential....more firemen have been killed from collapses then backdrafts. Furthermore, I know that most of the populated US does not have the luxury of wide open empty streets, you can close a street...sure...but what about all the folks stuck in the block? the parked cars? the restaurant or buildings across the street? Is it a street....road, highway, avenue...alley? Then what? Also....generally, if you get the roof opened up...especially on taxpayers...your drastically reduce the possibility of a backdraft, now...there are considerations such as reinforced roofs...steel plating, bow strings, load...etc etc etc...but generally at a minimum...bowstrings excluded...you can at least pop a skylight or two before you get off.

    Now...the second video....that was Chicago and it was the rear of a PD and an extremely rare event occurred...it was quasi-textbook until the backdraft....now...you shut the front street....how about the rear? Are we to evacuate EVERY surrounding occupancy...."just to be safe then sorry?" What about rear tenements? Alley ways? Set backs? Size of the rear yard? Is it a restaurant? Cafe? playground? As per your logic....only the front needs to be "shut down"....

    How about if it the building occupies the corner?


    think about it all....sport.....


    And yet... he acts like he does not know the dangers of a back draft or flash over. Interesting.
    Well...now you hit a little to close to home....I was going to be cordial and humble....but "F" it.....so here it goes....

    Now....I am a 3d generation fireman...all in the same city. My Father....his uncle...and his youngest brother...then me. My eldest uncle retired after 30 years....my father after 23, cut short due to blown lungs....his brother...my other uncle...never made it...he was killed with all of his company, plus a few, in the life of duty with one of the cities Rescue Companies. As for me....I have been a Vollie for over 20 years and a career guy for 8. I have been a member of a very rural dept, and a member or 2 other vollie depts who have high population densities. I have been a career fireman for 8 years in the largest city in the US, I worked in one of the busiest engine companies in the city...and I currently work in a very storied and great Ladder companies serving one of the OLDEST and most DIVERSE areas (population and construction) in the city. I will also mention that I have survived TWO flashovers.....one as a vollie in 2002 and most recently at my job in January 2011...the latter of which sent me to the burn center. I am one of the guys in the video from the NFFF...an organization I have assisted when and where I could. On top of all that....I have operated at fatal firefighter fires....of guys I knew. So....please tell me how I am not accepting the dangers of flashover/backdraft again......?

    You're a buff......and you are trying to come off as someone in the know..with ZERO experience.....as proven by your posts. Everyone who has been around probably got a great laugh from your original "backdraft-esk" post....I was going to let it slide and let you entertain me, but your last statement hit a nerve...which rarely ever happens...chances are it was because I just got home from a long 24....who knows....regardless...for me to see someone accuse me of not knowing safety....without knowing my pedigree...(which is in previous posts)....irked me....I think about my Uncle Pete every friggin day....I was at the job he died at.....and we NEVER recovered a damn thing...NOTHING......I have nothing.....then having to help my father who's ailing...who's lungs are so shot from fighting more fires then I could ever imagine...who tells me every day....be safe...wear your mask...use your head....and my favorite..."you can replace the building, but you can't replace the fireman......" When I got caught in the flashover in January...the toughest thing I had to do was not making the push that got me ****ed up....it was calling my family and fiancee from the hospital myself.......to explain why I was there and that my hands, ears, neck, arm and leg were a bit toasty......and I dunno if you ever been burned bad enough to have the pleasure of the burn debriding......but it will make change your ways a bit....


    So in closing....before you post stupid crap like how cops need firemen as heroes....or the backdraft referenced BS....or try to attack the character of another member....you better be sure you know what your are talking about...

    Again.....here's a quote I've used before...


    "Anyone who has declared someone else to be an idiot, a bad apple, is annoyed when it turns out in the end that he isn't."


    And one of my favorites....

    "(sic)...Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all."

    Yes....they are from the same brilliant mind.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I agree with you! Scene safeyt is paramount. No telling how many looky loo's or rubber neckers can wander into the path of a backdraft at the exact moment it happens on every fire.
    Good of you to bring this to our attention. This is something we should be training on all the time.

    How many flashovers and backdrafts have you been caught in? I'm still around because we get there after it happens, and fortunately no bystanders are ever hurt when it happens.
    So because you arrive after the fact means it NEVER happens while FF's are on scene. Oh thank heavens I feel better now. Guess that 2nd video was fabricated.



    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    No...you don't have a clue. I've read over all your posts about 50 or so.....and each one is very leading to the fact that you are naive in many facets of the fire service.
    And everything you have posted in this single thread has shown me that you know jack **** about how to maintain public safety on a fire scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    First, your tag line is a stupid quote from a stupid movie.....
    WTF does that have to do with anything? Don't like the movie OH WELL Don't like my sig? OH F'ing WELL. Maybe I will change it just for you. "Funny thing about *** holes, night and day, they're still *** holes."

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    and then you elude to the fact that the you close off the street before your actually make a move in for a size up....
    Your damn right. I would rather have a few people ****ed off at us for blocking a street, then to have the families of DEAD people ****ed off that we didn't block off the scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    but your video posts are contradictory.
    My videos were shoing you WHY you need to block the streets. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. Being Mr. Perfect Firefighter you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    The first was a well advanced fire and well into the operation....notice the master streams operating on the sidewalk. Most places leave the front open in those cases and move to operate on the corners, mostly because of the collapse potential....more firemen have been killed from collapses then backdrafts.
    What the hell does any of that have to do with keeping civilians out of the scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Furthermore, I know that most of the populated US does not have the luxury of wide open empty streets, you can close a street...sure...but what about all the folks stuck in the block? the parked cars? the restaurant or buildings across the street?
    What about them??? As long as they are not driving or walking in front of the scene?
    Jesus Christ, Do you not know anything about SAFETY???????

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Is it a street....road, highway, avenue...alley? Then what?
    Again What does it matter? KEEP THE PUBLIC at a safe distance is the goal here.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Also....generally, if you get the roof opened up...especially on taxpayers...your drastically reduce the possibility of a backdraft,
    So while you are taking time to do all that. Getting a ladder, getting up on the roof, cutting a hole, ect. Some car drives by, and is in the danger zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Now...the second video....that was Chicago and it was the rear of a PD and an extremely rare event occurred...it was quasi-textbook until the backdraft....now...you shut the front street....how about the rear? Are we to evacuate EVERY surrounding occupancy...."just to be safe then sorry?" What about rear tenements? Alley ways? Set backs? Size of the rear yard? Is it a restaurant? Cafe? playground? As per your logic....only the front needs to be "shut down"....
    Well, First of all, that video was to show you that back drafts do go "boom" since you seems confused about that. second off, Yes firefighters should have walked the perimeter and made sure neighbors were at a safe distance.


    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    How about if it the building occupies the corner?
    Well lets see professor, lets see. Maybe block off the 2 streets around the building and secure the perimeter to make sure it is safe


    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    think about it all....sport.....
    Take your own advice.


    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Well...now you hit a little to close to home....I was going to be cordial and humble....but "F" it.....so here it goes....

    Now....I am a 3d generation fireman...all in the same city. My Father....his uncle...and his youngest brother...then me. My eldest uncle retired after 30 years....my father after 23, cut short due to blown lungs....his brother...my other uncle...never made it...he was killed with all of his company, plus a few, in the life of duty with one of the cities Rescue Companies. As for me....I have been a Vollie for over 20 years and a career guy for 8. I have been a member of a very rural dept, and a member or 2 other vollie depts who have high population densities. I have been a career fireman for 8 years in the largest city in the US, I worked in one of the busiest engine companies in the city...and I currently work in a very storied and great Ladder companies serving one of the OLDEST and most DIVERSE areas (population and construction) in the city. I will also mention that I have survived TWO flashovers.....one as a vollie in 2002 and most recently at my job in January 2011...the latter of which sent me to the burn center. I am one of the guys in the video from the NFFF...an organization I have assisted when and where I could. On top of all that....I have operated at fatal firefighter fires....of guys I knew. So....please tell me how I am not accepting the dangers of flashover/backdraft again......?
    I could give a crap how long you have been a firefighter or any of your family. Your replies in this thread alone show me that you are a typical "know it all" that don't know jack about what your talking about. You act like Fires are just fun and games. I have given you 2 videos showing you the dangers within the fire scene and reasons to block the public from getting too close. YOU choose to be ignorant and act like you are captain firefighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    You're a buff......and you are trying to come off as someone in the know..with ZERO experience.....as proven by your posts.
    I have been in the fire service for 12 years and been on many scenes involving flash overs and back drafts. So stick your "ZERO experience" comment up your butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Everyone who has been around probably got a great laugh from your original "backdraft-esk" post....
    Then everyone around are morons and know nothing about fire scene safety and need to be retrained or fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    I was going to let it slide and let you entertain me, but your last statement hit a nerve...which rarely ever happens...chances are it was because I just got home from a long 24....who knows....regardless...for me to see someone accuse me of not knowing safety....without knowing my pedigree...(which is in previous posts)....irked me....
    Awww did the truth hurt?


    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    So in closing....before you post stupid crap like how cops need firemen as heroes....or the backdraft referenced BS....or try to attack the character of another member....you better be sure you know what your are talking about...
    And before you post stupid crap about how there is no need to block off street on a fire scene, you better know what you're (as in you are) talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Again.....here's a quote I've used before...


    "Anyone who has declared someone else to be an idiot, a bad apple, is annoyed when it turns out in the end that he isn't."
    How did those words taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    And one of my favorites....

    "(sic)...Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all."
    Then we need to contact your chief and tell him not to allow you on a fire scene until someone else has made it safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Yes....they are from the same brilliant mind.....
    Obviously not yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Been here 7 years and you still don't know how to read and comprehend a forum post.

    I never said I forgot what my post said I know EXACTLY what my post said, and that first video shows EXACTLY what my post was talking about.



    And yet... he acts like he does not know the dangers of a back draft or flash over. Interesting.
    Both of those videos shows smoke showing. You lose.

    Vinnie owned you the rest of the way. Just stop typing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Both of those videos shows smoke showing. You lose.

    Vinnie owned you the rest of the way. Just stop typing.
    Both those videos show EXPLOSIONS which was the point of posting them. But you wouldn't grasp that would you? BTW you do know that smoke IS part of flash over, right?

    You = EPIC FAIL!

    He owned himself by being such an *** hole.
    Last edited by Mr. D.; 09-01-2012 at 12:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    "Funny thing about *** holes, night and day, they're still *** holes."
    Yes...you proved that already.....

    Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Again.....here's a quote I've used before...


    "Anyone who has declared someone else to be an idiot, a bad apple, is annoyed when it turns out in the end that he isn't."
    How did those words taste?
    I dunno...still waiting for a logical response from you with facts and personal experience....but I probably have a better chance of seeing Jesus skip across water while whistling an Aria....
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    Pass the butter please...

    Please stop trying to pretend you know what is best to do in an urban environment.

    I am just happy our PD could care less if we block the streets while working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Yes...you proved that already.....
    How "I'm rubber your glue..." of you.



    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    I dunno...still waiting for a logical response from you with facts and personal experience...
    READ THIS THREAD WATCH THE VIDEOS

    Fire scene. People in the street. Large ball of fire explodes out INTO THE STREET


    Nope. Absolutely no need what so ever to block the streets on a fire scene.

    Thank you oh wise Obi Wan.




    Oh well, you will never get it. I could show you a video of a civilian in the street being hit by the fire ball, and you would still argue that there is no need to block the street.

    Talking to you is


    Just go back to your magical firehouse where people can just walk all around a fire scene and never get hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    Please stop trying to pretend you know what is best to do in an urban environment.
    Who?

    I have worked both rural and urban fire departments and BOTH blocked the roads.

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    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Hahaha!!!!
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    I dunno...still waiting for a logical response from you with facts and personal experience....but I probably have a better chance of seeing Jesus skip across water while whistling an Aria....
    Come on. You know that is really rare. Closest I have ever seen is Jesus skipping across water while SINGING an Aria, but I have never seen him whistling.

    Anyways, this thread is useless without popcorn. Sort of as stupid as me telling a manhattan firefighter how to work a highrise fire, or him telling me how to work a natural cover fire.

    Popcorn I say. POPCORN!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Who?

    I have worked both rural and urban fire departments and BOTH blocked the roads.
    Not the #1 priority when we arrive. We tend to work on stretching lines, doing a walkaround and getting water on the fire. Blocking the road can wait.

    Anyone else get this feeling?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    The street in front of the building/scene is in that area.

    What if FF's arrive and see no fire, no smoke, so they don't block the street. Then all of a sudden, BOOM, Back draft.

    Better safe then sorry.
    Really? no fire, no smoke, and you block the streets? The entire intersection? Your public must love you.

    How long do you spend clearing a house? How much equipment do you have on scene for a no fire no smoke?

    Are you in one of those areas where they have half a dozen volunteer departments responding to a no fire no smoke (alarm) call with everything they can put a driver in? (Further endangering the public)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Not the #1 priority when we arrive. We tend to work on stretching lines, doing a walkaround and getting water on the fire. Blocking the road can wait.

    Anyone else get this feeling?
    ]
    I think you are insulting scarecrows everywhere. And I hope you did not raise ours from the dead.

    Anyways, he is talking about a simple alarm or investigation!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I think you are insulting scarecrows everywhere. And I hope you did not raise ours from the dead.

    Anyways, he is talking about a simple alarm or investigation!
    Backdrafts linger EVERYWHERE. I am checking my closet for one before I go to bed tonight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Backdrafts linger EVERYWHERE. I am checking my closet for one before I go to bed tonight.
    ...BOOM! better safe then sorry....I'll have to check under my bed too....can't be too safe....











    This guy is an absolute fraud........entertaining...bu t still a fraud...anyone else catch the "many scenes involving flash overs and back drafts"? I hope FH or FE...or NIST can contact him or his FD in NC...because he's a rare one with a front row seat, I am sure they have that all documented....I wonder if he can extend that massive experience...or does "many scenes involving flash overs and back drafts" really mean "I have seen Backdraft the movie, like 1000 times...dude...."


    And my other professional take on this is leaning towards...social aversion, delusions of grandeur, lack of ability to grasp the paradigm of the fire service....or reality...... ...all recipes for..................? Who wants to guess it? I'll give you all a hint.....an "ontic chasm..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Not the #1 priority when we arrive. We tend to work on stretching lines, doing a walkaround and getting water on the fire. Blocking the road can wait. [/IMG]
    That's why there are teams and each team responsible for certain actions. While one team is running lines, another team is doing a walk around, and another team is setting up barricade (blocking the street and other areas)

    Maybe your department needs training on team work.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Really? no fire, no smoke, and you block the streets? The entire intersection? Your public must love you.
    Yes they do. They understand what SAFETY is. They use COMMON SENSE and know that just because you don't see it upon arrival, don't mean there is no danger.
    Guessing where you live there has never been a fire call where a room in the basement is burning, so you can't see it upon arrival.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    How long do you spend clearing a house? How much equipment do you have on scene for a no fire no smoke?
    Everything is en route until it is determined not needed. Again, better safe then sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Are you in one of those areas where they have half a dozen volunteer departments responding to a no fire no smoke (alarm) call with everything they can put a driver in? (Further endangering the public)
    Oh yeah, because it is SO dangerous to the public to have a BIG BRIGHT RED Fire Truck with FLASHING LIGHTS AND SIRENS out on a call.

    But to answer your question. NO. We page out station for the area and one mutual aid station depending on the call. That results in about 3-4 trucks en route to the scene.


    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Anyways, he is talking about a simple alarm or investigation!
    I am referring to any call that is a possible fire. You do not know what the situation is until you get there and look around. So to be safe, while the size up is being done, it is best to block the street for safety.

    No one is saying leave it blocked if there is no danger. After the size up, you determine that it's just a small fire in the back room, Fine un block the street while the attack crew does their job. But until you know for sure. Play it safe.



    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Backdrafts linger EVERYWHERE. I am checking my closet for one before I go to bed tonight.

    Better check your head, plenty of space there for one to linger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    This guy is an absolute fraud........entertaining...bu t still a fraud...anyone else catch the "many scenes involving flash overs and back drafts"? I hope FH or FE...or NIST can contact him or his FD in NC...because he's a rare one with a front row seat, I am sure they have that all documented....I wonder if he can extend that massive experience...or does "many scenes involving flash overs and back drafts" really mean "I have seen Backdraft the movie, like 1000 times...dude...."
    I am sorry that your slow response time causes you to miss these events. Better luck next time. But I am sure that if you contact NIST, FH or FE, they can explain that fire departments being on scene during a back draft of flash over is more common then you think. That is why they train for such events. I guess you were sick that day.

    BTW Drop the movie bull ****. damn, what the hell. No one in the whole conversation has mentioned the movie other then you. So it appears to be your hang up.


    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    And my other professional take on this is leaning towards...social aversion, delusions of grandeur, lack of ability to grasp the paradigm of the fire service....or reality...... ...all recipes for..................? Who wants to guess it? I'll give you all a hint.....an "ontic chasm..."
    Are you just upset that your lack of understanding how things work in the real world makes you ignorant and a safety threat to your department.






    Lets put it this way for EVERYONE HERE. Since most of you seem to have your heads up your butts on this.


    Would you rather block off the street and make a few people upset for a few short moments while you do a size up?
    Or
    Leave the street open with traffic while your team has to work around the truck, risking possible injury, or the unthinkable happens (because we all know fires are not text book) and a civilian get injured and now sues your department for not blocking off the scene.


    If you choose the latter, let me know so I can come to your area and get hurt on a scene and sue.




    You sir have gotten so hung up over terminology that you have totally lost sight of the main topic at hand. It don't matter if it is a back draft, flash over, or any thing else. Keeping the public safe on a fire scene is the job of the FD. that is why the FD has jurisdiction on fire scenes.

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    You're a fraud.....end of story....I put my pedigree out there and can back it up. You have zero time, and zero experiance....anyone who have witnessed these events would be all over the fire wires....yet Ive seen nothing from your dept in NC. Keep reaching pal...at this point youre a troll and a liar.....a fake, with the intelect of a pre-pubesant. To add...with all the bS youve spouted....none of it can be backed up...and its full of tactical errors, but most of all lies! You're an absolute fake.....who do you think your fooling? Everyone here knows your a liar..."a team stretching, a team walking around...and a team setting up barricades....are you kidding me!? No searching...venting....finding the fire....? Nothing like that huh? This is why we know your are a zero and a liar.......


    You argue like a 10 year old......what you need to do is just leave, you've proven yourself to be a fool....who really just needs a smack and a weggie....you're a waste.....
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