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Thread: Getting air out of fire hose for re-load. How?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuh shise View Post
    footrat: As a matter of fact, under a lot of conditions, the first thing into a minor (food on the stove, appliance fire, chimney, etc) is a 30 ft runner and maybe 2 or 3 of them to cover carpet and flooring preventing un-necessary damage to the home and contents. You would be amazed what word of mouth compliments can do for your annual fund drive. Of course a working structure gets a line as quickly as possible with no thought of floor runners.
    Absolutely. That's why we harp on our guys to limit the number entering a home for calls like that, and make sure that boots are as clean as possible BEFORE the call comes in. There's no need to leave big sooty footprints on somebody's new carpet because of a contained flue fire.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Absolutely. That's why we harp on our guys to limit the number entering a home for calls like that, and make sure that boots are as clean as possible BEFORE the call comes in. There's no need to leave big sooty footprints on somebody's new carpet because of a contained flue fire.
    Also great idea to clean gear, especially boots after every run to include car accidents

    So you can say in court at an arson case that yes my gear did not contaminate the crimminal scene

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    How do you get air out of hose when you are getting ready to re-load hose?

    Flush the foam out of the hose with clear water.
    You DO use foam, don't you?

    Blow the water out of the hose with the onboard CAFS compressor.
    You DO have CAFS, don't you?

    ?

    You really use your air to blow out the water in the line???? You must have tons of time on your hand!!!

    And no... We really don't use foam. I've worked for a busy metro dept for 6 years and have used foam (via an Inductor and agitator on a hoseline) maybe twice.. Is it Really necessary??
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    Am I missing something?
    This guy is going to be a chief someday. Who said today's entitled generation of "gamers" would never amount to anything?
    DFW



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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Buy two and he will give you a pasta maker, a chopper and a exhast oven for cooking dinner while on a long scene.
    ...but wait! There's more!
    DFW



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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    A fire ground dehydrator works fantastic!!!!!!
    I agree that the Norden Dehydrator works quite well but haven't been impressed with the Dewey, Cheatem or Howe brands.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    A knowledge of basic physics and how fire department pumps operate for starters.....
    Huh? Who said anything about sucking with the PUMP?


    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Use the vacuum drain method. If the hose is on a slope, it doesn't take much of one, leave the uphill side connected either to the engine, or hydrant or the nozzle, Let the hose drain by gravity and as it does it will suck flat due to the water not only draining but the vacuum pulling the hose flat and allowing no air back in. If the hose is laid on a flat surface leave one end connected, or fold it over and then walk the hose out this will allow it to vacuum drain the same way as a slope.

    It ain't rocket science.

    Seriously? Roll the hose or use one of those hand held hose roller tools that are used for LDH to drain the water and air.

    You ARE condescending aren't you? We use foam when appropriate. Most often for any structural fire attack.

    Ah, you ARE still condescending aren't you. Nope, don't have CAFs, honestly don't see a need for the expense. I won't however attempt to act superior to you because you use it.

    Frankly, blowing air into the hose would make the hose fluff up because it is filled with air now instead of water.

    Sounds like your guys need some training.
    Yes, I think they do need some training. I am NOT the training guy. The training guy was the one that has had them doing it this way. I seems like an over schooled, under experienced type that won’t accept that there might be something wrong with his way.

    They are using the hand held hose roller but not keeping the hose pinched together when they go past the couplings and the air gets back in the hose and it swells back up. The extra air in the hose is enough that it makes it difficult to get the 1-3/4” hose into the rack that was made for 1-1/2” hose.

    My being condescending, as you call it, was a frustration resulting from a previous mutual aid call to assist a city department. They have hydrants and they have made the statement that ‘we have all the water that we need to use so there isn’t any reason that we should use foam’. They had a stubborn basement fire and had to go in 3 times to the same room to get the fire to stay down.

    I expect that you just said that they must not have used enough water…
    You probably even thought about making a swimming pool out of the foundation...

    I thought we were supposed to be about preserving life and property. If we had had foam, we think it would have been done with one time through.


    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    They give you guys neat gadgets like foam and CAFS yet the fail to train you on the basics of how a centrifigual fire pump works. Wow.

    What makes you think that everyone wants, needs, or can afford CAFS?

    In 18 years, I've never seen gravel in the hose as a result of draining it.
    Again:
    Huh? Who said anything about sucking with the PUMP?

    I think that CAFS is way better than without. I will let you think whatever you want. I can’t stop you. You will do whatever you want anyway.

    The training ground is covered a few inches deep with small, loose pea gravel. It is good for not getting muddy but it has gotten rocks rolled inside the hose ends with the way they are encouraged to get uncoupled and dropped in the gravel.


    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I dont know what it is, but something about this thread makes me think little Ttiggy is typing it on his mommy's computer when he should be doing his algebra homework.......
    Nope. Wrong again.

    I am plenty old.
    I’m just getting cranky and tired of just letting things go on because ‘that is the way we have always done it.’

  8. #33
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    Originally Posted by FyredUp
    Use the vacuum drain method. If the hose is on a slope, it doesn't take much of one, leave the uphill side connected either to the engine, or hydrant or the nozzle, Let the hose drain by gravity and as it does it will suck flat due to the water not only draining but the vacuum pulling the hose flat and allowing no air back in. If the hose is laid on a flat surface leave one end connected, or fold it over and then walk the hose out this will allow it to vacuum drain the same way as a slope.

    It ain't rocket science.

    Seriously? Roll the hose or use one of those hand held hose roller tools that are used for LDH to drain the water and air.

    You ARE condescending aren't you? We use foam when appropriate. Most often for any structural fire attack.

    Ah, you ARE still condescending aren't you. Nope, don't have CAFs, honestly don't see a need for the expense. I won't however attempt to act superior to you because you use it.

    Frankly, blowing air into the hose would make the hose fluff up because it is filled with air now instead of water.

    Sounds like your guys need some training.

    [Originally posted by ttiiggy]
    Yes, I think they do need some training. I am NOT the training guy. The training guy was the one that has had them doing it this way. I seems like an over schooled, under experienced type that won’t accept that there might be something wrong with his way.

    Then do it his way and when it screws up over and over and over, point out that this is HIS WAY. Or go to the chief and advocate for change. Who appointed this guy training officer and what are his qualifications?

    They are using the hand held hose roller but not keeping the hose pinched together when they go past the couplings and the air gets back in the hose and it swells back up. The extra air in the hose is enough that it makes it difficult to get the 1-3/4” hose into the rack that was made for 1-1/2” hose.

    We use nitrile rubber hose exclusively and the majority of time we roll the hose we use for crosslays before we reload it. It drains all the water and air our of it. I frankly don't like using the hand held hose roller on the smaller hose because it doesn't seem to pinch it together tight enough.

    Maybe the answer is to modify the hosebed instead of battling it everytime you reload hose?


    My being condescending, as you call it, was a frustration resulting from a previous mutual aid call to assist a city department. They have hydrants and they have made the statement that ‘we have all the water that we need to use so there isn’t any reason that we should use foam’. They had a stubborn basement fire and had to go in 3 times to the same room to get the fire to stay down.

    Foam is not a magical elixer. You still have to put it on the fire to extinguish it. I was at a fire one time, with a stubborn basement fire and the officer told his crew to pop out a window and spray foam in. It never came close to the fire and of course never put the fire out. We went in and attacked the fire directly with Class A foam and extinguished it. The officer who wanted foam sprayed in the window couldn't understand why the fire didn't go out. I tried to explain but I think it was pointless.

    Water will put out fire, it has done so since time began. The invention of foam didn't make water obsolete. Foam does pentrate better and coat burning materials better than water to be sure.


    I expect that you just said that they must not have used enough water…
    You probably even thought about making a swimming pool out of the foundation...

    You are a funny man. Too bad you couldn't be more wrong. Just because I haven't jumped on the CAFs bandwagon doesn't mean I don't believe in using Class A foam. I have never filled a basement up with water. But I also have never just willy nilly sprayed foam and hoped it hit the fire either.

    I thought we were supposed to be about preserving life and property. If we had had foam, we think it would have been done with one time through.

    So how many died because they used water? How much more was lost because they used water? Your argument is emotional claptrap unless you can support what you are saying.
    I hope this was more helpful.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 06-15-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    Huh? Who said anything about sucking with the PUMP?
    Here's what you said in your first post, a year ago (by the way don't you have anything better to do than drag up old threads?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.
    Once again, I echo my previous thoughts, however slightly altered for your thick head: If you had even the slightest basic knowledge of how centrifugal fire pumps operated or the physics of their operation, you would understand that this is not feasible.

    By the way, for the record- My department operates a Waterous Advantus CAFS system on a 1500gpm pumper with 600/60. We flow bubbles on everything. Our SOP is to blow residual water out (after flushing) with compressed air, and then the line is walked with a roller or two guys with a hand tool. It's the only efficient way that we have found to repack on the fireground. Sometimes we roll it and pack on the ramp back at the house.

    Now Junior, since school is out- go cut the grass or something for mommy, and then go to the firehouse and chip, sand and re-paint all the hand tools. While you are waiting for the paint to dry, empty each compartment one by one, sweep and wash the interiors, dry them and re-stock with the equipment but clean the equipment as you put it back in. When that's done, wash and wax the rig. When THAT is done, maybe if you ask nicely you can have the basic pump ops manual to read.
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