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Thread: Getting air out of fire hose for re-load. How?

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    Default Getting air out of fire hose for re-load. How?

    How do you get air out of hose when you are getting ready to re-load hose?

    Flush the foam out of the hose with clear water.
    You DO use foam, don't you?

    Blow the water out of the hose with the onboard CAFS compressor.
    You DO have CAFS, don't you?

    Then everybody takes every hose section apart at the coupler to try to get the last few dribbles of water out of the hose. They end up dragging the couplers in the dirt and maybe getting gravel inside the hose. I cringe every time I see it.

    Then they have a handheld hose roller that they regularly forgot to put onto the hose at the truck to try to smash the hose flat to get all the air out so the hose will lay into the hose bed.
    Hopefully they have the nozzle ready or somebody remembers to keep the end of the hose kinked over to keep the air out.

    Is there a better way?
    Do we need to run the hoses out to get a few more dribbles of water out?
    Isn't there an easier way to get the air out of the hose?

    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.

    Am I missing something?

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    Roll the hose first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.

    Am I missing something?
    A knowledge of basic physics and how fire department pumps operate for starters.....
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    In 21 years, I can't say I've ever had a significant problem bedding hose due to excess air. If you mash it so flat that there's no air, you are badly creasing the rubber lining and setting yourself up for a rupture someday.

    We don't even roll it first, unless it's nasty at the scene and we roll it for transport back to the station, where we wash it and re-bed it. Walk it out, put it on, go back to the barn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    A knowledge of basic physics and how fire department pumps operate for starters.....
    Remember the guy on here years ago who said something about drafting through soft sleeve? I can't remember the conversation, but it may have been something about tandem pumping or dual pumping. Jumped right in and opined about watching it, and somebody else jumped in and commented on remembering to defy the laws of physics as well.
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    Am I missing something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Am I missing something?
    I had misplaced my favorite coffee mug (extra capacity.. I don't function without caffiene) this morning.. but I eventually found it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    How do you get air out of hose when you are getting ready to re-load hose?

    Seriously? Roll the hose or use one of those hand held hose roller tools that are used for LDH to drain the water and air.

    Flush the foam out of the hose with clear water.
    You DO use foam, don't you?

    You ARE condescending aren't you? We use foam when appropriate. Most often for any structural fire attack.

    Blow the water out of the hose with the onboard CAFS compressor.
    You DO have CAFS, don't you?

    Ah, you ARE still condescending aren't you. Nope, don't have CAFs, honestly don't see a need for the expense. I won't however attempt to act superior to you because you use it.

    Frankly, blowing air into the hose would make the hose fluff up because it is filled with air now instead of water.


    Then everybody takes every hose section apart at the coupler to try to get the last few dribbles of water out of the hose. They end up dragging the couplers in the dirt and maybe getting gravel inside the hose. I cringe every time I see it.

    Sounds like your guys need some training.

    Then they have a handheld hose roller that they regularly forgot to put onto the hose at the truck to try to smash the hose flat to get all the air out so the hose will lay into the hose bed.
    Hopefully they have the nozzle ready or somebody remembers to keep the end of the hose kinked over to keep the air out.

    Is there a better way?
    Do we need to run the hoses out to get a few more dribbles of water out?
    Isn't there an easier way to get the air out of the hose?

    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.

    Am I missing something?
    Use the vacuum drain method. If the hose is on a slope, it doesn't take much of one, leave the uphill side connected either to the engine, or hydrant or the nozzle, Let the hose drain by gravity and as it does it will suck flat due to the water not only draining but the vacuum pulling the hose flat and allowing no air back in. If the hose is laid on a flat surface leave one end connected, or fold it over and then walk the hose out this will allow it to vacuum drain the same way as a slope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post

    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.
    They give you guys neat gadgets like foam and CAFS yet the fail to train you on the basics of how a centrifigual fire pump works. Wow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    How do you get air out of hose when you are getting ready to re-load hose?

    Roll it, or simply pack it back on the rig.

    Flush the foam out of the hose with clear water.
    You DO use foam, don't you?

    I apply a nice lather of foam just before I shave. Be damned, nicked skin!

    Blow the water out of the hose with the onboard CAFS compressor.
    You DO have CAFS, don't you?

    What makes you think that everyone wants, needs, or can afford CAFS?

    Then everybody takes every hose section apart at the coupler to try to get the last few dribbles of water out of the hose. They end up dragging the couplers in the dirt and maybe getting gravel inside the hose. I cringe every time I see it.

    In 18 years, I've never seen gravel in the hose as a result of draining it.

    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.

    Am I missing something?

    I dunno, but I feel like I am. Is your department having that much problem with hose that it won't pack correctly? If so, what make & model is it, and how old is it?
    I don't know what it is, but something about this thread reminds me of the fresh breath (Personal Hygiene for a 24 Hour Shift) thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I don't know what it is, but something about this thread reminds me of the fresh breath (Personal Hygiene for a 24 Hour Shift) thread.
    I dont know what it is, but something about this thread makes me think little Ttiggy is typing it on his mommy's computer when he should be doing his algebra homework.......
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    Never really had an issue with the attack lines getting too much air in them. We generally re-rack them on scene unless they are too dirty. We have had issues with getting all of the water out on occasion, but very rare. We have also had issues with the liner separating on older hose.

    We did have some issues with the LDH when I worked with it. The key was to fold over the up hill end and let the water pull the air out as it drained (Fyred's method above). Disconnecting the couplings was sure to invite air in the hose and make racking a pain.

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    Walk the hose line out to remove water and whatever air as well. Start re-packing it like you always do, with the open end, hose butt, on the ground and most of what is left, water and air will evacuate by itself. If you use hose often like larger urban department do, this wouldn't be a problem.

    I remember the old 100% cotton jacketed hose which was always a big problem re-packing. We used the horseshoe method back then. At the end of the day, it will all get repacked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Walk the hose line out to remove water and whatever air as well. Start re-packing it like you always do, with the open end, hose butt, on the ground and most of what is left, water and air will evacuate by itself. If you use hose often like larger urban department do, this wouldn't be a problem.

    I remember the old 100% cotton jacketed hose which was always a big problem re-packing. We used the horseshoe method back then. At the end of the day, it will all get repacked.
    Unfortunately Cap, with some of the newer hose, especally the nitrille rubber stuff, the method of walking the hose out doesn't remove the air like with older hose. It becomes almost a necessity to either roll it, vacuum drain it, or use a hose roller to drain it. Rolling tends to be the fastest and easiest.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 09-05-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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    For LDH this has been a constant problem, where FF's think they are helping by breaking the couplings. Best way is to break the couplings at the top of a rise and the bottom of a valley, ONLY. Fold the couplings over several times to prevent air from entering, and then pack from the higher elevation to the lower by driving ALONGSIDE the lay. Driving forward prevents the possible backing into a FF loading hose. The water flowing out of the lay helps to suck the hose flat.
    For pre-connects, we always load dry hose from the rack. We have a relatively large industrial area that is making carbon based or powder metal based products. Once a hose is dragged through graphite, it must be cleaned BEFORE it is used in a residential fire. Home owners react unkindly to having a graphite stripe imprinted on a light colored rug. We have an OLD (1970's) hose washer that is utilized for all jacketed hose after every working fire. Still have some 3" jacked in service from 1968. Yes it does pay to take care of your hose.

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    kuh shie,

    Whatyou described for LDH is exactly the same thing I described above. We call that the vacuum drain.

    As for the pre-connects I see your point of cleaning them if they are subjected to that. Our pre-connects are all nitrile rubber and we hose them off before loading if necessary.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 09-06-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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    We've always had pretty good luck with capping off one end of the LDH and then walking it with the roller or a pinch bar or handle of a halligan after it drains itself for a few mins.
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    We break every coupling and roll each section, size does not matter. LDH is placed on a Roll N' Rack and reloaded section by section at the tailboard. We have perfectly neat hose beds as long as the crew loading it gives a damn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttiiggy View Post
    How do you get air out of hose when you are getting ready to re-load hose?

    Flush the foam out of the hose with clear water.
    You DO use foam, don't you?

    Blow the water out of the hose with the onboard CAFS compressor.
    You DO have CAFS, don't you?

    Then everybody takes every hose section apart at the coupler to try to get the last few dribbles of water out of the hose. They end up dragging the couplers in the dirt and maybe getting gravel inside the hose. I cringe every time I see it.

    Then they have a handheld hose roller that they regularly forgot to put onto the hose at the truck to try to smash the hose flat to get all the air out so the hose will lay into the hose bed.
    Hopefully they have the nozzle ready or somebody remembers to keep the end of the hose kinked over to keep the air out.

    Is there a better way?
    Do we need to run the hoses out to get a few more dribbles of water out?
    Isn't there an easier way to get the air out of the hose?

    It seems like there should be a way or method of connecting the draft vacuum onto the hose and just suck it flat and should be done.

    Am I missing something?
    Are you from Murphy NC?

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    A fire ground dehydrator works fantastic!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    A fire ground dehydrator works fantastic!!!!!!
    Is that built by Ronco?
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    Buy two and he will give you a pasta maker, a chopper and a exhast oven for cooking dinner while on a long scene.

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    I never thought that there could be this much discussion on how to roll hose.

    I understand cleaning hose to extend its life, but cleaning hose because it might upset someone whose house is ON FIRE if their carpet gets dirty? Do you take your boots off to walk from the burned area back through the unburned area?

    It's pretty simple to roll and reload hose. So simple, in fact, that you can teach high school kids in the Explorers program and grandparents in the Citizen Reserve to do it.

    When it comes to 5", we let it "vacuum drain" as others have said, if the terrain allows. Even still, it gets rolled to ensure that the water and air is out. The easiest way to handle it after that is to stick a pry bar through the roll, and have a guy on each side hold it. Another guy can get behind the roll and flip it so that hose comes off without someone having to pull a 75-100 lb. roll of hose like a roll of toilet paper. Someone can feed this slack up into the hosebed, and one or two people can flat load the 5" hosebed. This entire job can be done with as few as 4 or as many as 6 people, and it's really not complicated. As simple as this is, rolling and reloading attack lines is far more so, so can we stop discussing this subject as if it's rocket surgery?

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    Hey footrat, you don't have to like the topic but it has spawned some very interesting posts.
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    footrat: As a matter of fact, under a lot of conditions, the first thing into a minor (food on the stove, appliance fire, chimney, etc) is a 30 ft runner and maybe 2 or 3 of them to cover carpet and flooring preventing un-necessary damage to the home and contents. You would be amazed what word of mouth compliments can do for your annual fund drive. Of course a working structure gets a line as quickly as possible with no thought of floor runners.

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