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I was wondering what other depts do for job assignments.
I was thinking about getting with our officers and getting a pre determined attack plan based on where you came from on the truck (behind driver-pull the line, behind officer-irons/OV)
At this point we pretty much go off of what the officer says when we get there which isn't bad but I think it would lighten their load if they didn't have to take the time to give their orders for stuff that should be happening already.
Discuss...
Our vehicles get assigned tasks. The guys on the vehicle take the required positions. We don't specify what seat does what, other than driver and officer.
Our rescue engine has been assigned as truck 1, truck 2, engine 1, and engine 2. The 100' TL in town has been assigned truck 1, truck 2, engine 1, and engine 2.
Engine positions....nozzle, backup, door, control. (not including driver and officer)
Truck positions....can, hook, OV, roof (not including driver and officer)
We use seating assignments but additionally base what the company as a whole will be doing depending on where/when they are due on the box assignment. First in engine, second in engine, first due truck, second due truck, etc. Everyone knows what they are doing automatically and when to do it, unless if the IC says otherwise.
IF we are a truck we have a hook and can man, and a irons man. If we are an engine we have a hydrant man and an attack hose man.
We make the assignments based on who is on the apparatus, not where they are sitting. Being volunteer, it's rare that we have the same people on the apparatus for 2 calls in a row. With people coming and going, it would be hard to assign a seat or task at the beginning of a shift and have it remain the same for the entire shift.
My last department did have assignements based on the seat, but they were very rarely followed.
We take our assignments from the officer on the rig. We never know who will be on the rig so that's why we don't assign tasks by seating position. We do this for all of our calls and MA calls, most of the other departments around us operate this way as well.
This is exactly why you SHOULD have seat assignments. So when whomever arrives on the engine or truck, they know exactly what they should be doing or what tools they grab once they grab a seat. This prevents multiple people going for hooks, and no one grabbing a can. If you have "non-fire" personnel, well what are they even doing on the engine.
Great, but what if nobody sits in a particular seat, or what do you do with "extra" personnel. Our apparatus seat 6, but we don't always go out with that many. I understand the idea of pre-assignments based on the seat, but my experience is that I am always altering the assignement anyway, so might as well just assign based on the situation. Also, I am fortunate that most of the time I have a senior ff in back and can have him make assignments.Quote:
Originally Posted by EgressOne
I'm not quite following the "what if nobody sits in a particular seat"...why would you be pulling the engine without at least 2 people riding in the back? Even if you ride 3-man engines the ff in back has nozzle, officer will grab irons....any other responding units will cover supply, or you driver will hook up once he starts flowing off the tank.
Having seat assignments prevents you needing that "senior ff" making the call on assignments. Who's to say you won't have a senior ff, and you get all non seniors...at least now those non seniors will know what their task is without having to have the officer worry if they know what the hell they'll be doing/bringing.
We have 6 seat engines, 4 in the back. Assume there are assignments for the seat behind the officer and behind the driver. Now we have the a person for whatever reason sits in the forward facing seat in the middle. I've seen people avoid sitting in the layout seat because they didn't want that job.Quote:
Originally Posted by EgressOne
You also ask why we would roll with less than 4...because sometimes we are low on staffing and 3 is the minimum. We may also have to staff other apparatus. Anyway...if we go out this time with 3 and next time with 5, we have to re-assign anyway. That is my only point.
Thank you, now I understand your point.
In regards to the person not wanting the layout seat, I think that is more an issue in itself than having seat assignments already determined. Those people on your department need to re-evaluate their devotion to the department and why they are there.
SOP for us: apparatus must have mimimum of driver, officer and 2 interior qualified FF's on board when responding out of district, or if inside our local, if they do not have the minumum, they go on the air as "undermanned" and the dispatcher automatically adds another engine to the assignment. If more than 2 interior FF's are in the back thats bonus of course. Seat assignments can and do get juggled by officers as needed, but for the most part when you have 2 guys in the back, one is knob, other is forcible entry/backup man. Officer will wrap the hydrant if needed. Connection is usually made by another incoming unit, 75% of the time being EMS.Quote:
Originally Posted by EgressOne
While I know that layout is important, and a job that has to be done, I do understand not wanting to ride in that position. Everybody, especially the young guys, wants to be on the nozzle. In the end, it was never really an issue, somebody was assigned layout and it got done. In the current department, I've never had an issue when I turn around and tell someone to layout.Quote:
Originally Posted by EgressOne
Some pretty good replies so far.
My feeling on it is the officer wouldn't give up his responsibility to know where everyone is and what they're doing and make adjustments as necessary but I think it would be an attempt to compensate for some of the time we lose by nature of being volunteers.
I think the bottom line is that practice and training is what makes the people we go to help say either "Oh thank God!" or "Here comes the pretend heroes..."
The time we lose by nature of being volunteers? I hope your talking about the time involved in responding from home to the firehouse....
Your not referring to getting on scene and then assignments being handed out are you? Those assignments can be handed out while en-route, regardless of what seat people are sitting in.
Yeah that's what I meant
On my POC we don't do seat assignments because of the variable of who and how many show up. You may have a newer guy sitting in the front seat, and a Lt. shows up just as the truck is rolling out. They're not going to take the time to swap seats, the Lt. will let people know where he wants them enroute. And sometimes you have a guy that needs a little more "supervision", so you might want to keep him under your wing so to speak. We generally have time to make assignments enroute so it's not been a problem. All our guys have at least a basic understanding of the basic FF jobs, so we can put the best person for the job in whatever assignment we need them in.