And he is so smart he is copying and pastng things from a topic closed by the moderators.
Hey Genius, POST REPORTED!!
I still see a lot of comments about how an individual may handle the tampering of gear....and even calls for violence. How does that bode for the job? Sort of like in football, the second guy is the one that typically has the penalty called on them. So looking at some comments here of how another FF would jack another up and so forth....what does the dept rules state about that?
Quite honestly the OP was asking if there is anything in NFPA or OSHA which addresses the tampering of gear.....there isn't. Such rules etc are a dept regulation, and there should be something in place to adress this, so things don't turn into physical altercations, etc.
So if the OP is in a dept that doesn't have such regulations or SOG/P in place, then how does the issue really get addressed? How does it get prevented from happening again? Jack someone up? Yeah OK tough guys, face possible suspension/discipline, injury to you or another, etc...how does that help the situation? How does that help staffing when the tones drop?
Will you admit you suggested I kill myself, or that your guys would kick my ***, or that you wished I would get burned at a fire? Of course not.
Ok - there is no one exact right answer, with the exception of it should be handled man to man first. Many times its just as simple as explaining to the "offender" that ppe should be hands off. Many times people act without thinking it through. 9 times out of ten that will end it. If not , pass it up the chain of command. And if it still keeps up, I dont rule out taking it up off duty with your fists as a very last resort. I know many of the kindler gentler folks will call me out on this, but even in our so called civilized society, the implied threat of violence is a deterent. Will it escalate to that, I doubt it. Every one is wired a little different so their is no one right answer, but I can tell you that getting on an internet forum and getting some surface advise/knowledge about certain regulations, then running in shouting OSHA, NFPA, ACDC, ABBA, etc is the WRONG answer.
There , I fixed my reply to Jcrabby
We play with a bunch of stuff, but turnouts as a rule are off limits. Although occasionally a guy will get water or dry Kool Aid in the boots every now and then, but nothing that would prevent you from being able to use them.
don't do anything to gear that will slow down someone putting it on. Its all fun and games till a run comes in at shift change and the guy is slow getting on the truck, then we're hurting the people and property we're paid to protect. Besides why would I check my pants? If it was good when I took them off last, they should still be good right now.
Something minor like the above mentioned kool aid in the boots is pretty funny to me. Leaving comical pictures or items in them is also good for a laugh. If its something that will affect my performance or my ability to help a victim, you better run like hell when I find out.
Wouldnt want someone to lose their job over it though. Id prefer to handle it in house.
I have said before that turnout gear is off limits. However it still is pretty funny to see a probie pull up his drops and not notice the pink lace thong on them.
I picked up on your reply from before, but this is easier to address. Yes, I do agree with you in regards to addressing things, but first things first. If there is nothing by the dept that addresses PPE and the tampering of it, then there is no real other precedence to go off of or back things up with. So if a similar occurence occurs, all you may have is past practice, if lucky enough to be addressed....otherwise there is no precedence. Hence the reason to address that aspect first, because it is NOT addressed by NFPA, OSHA, etc.....this is a departmental issue.
As to how to handle, yes, I agree with addressing this one on one, first. This does pertain to having such SOG/Ps in place, if not, then it is imperative that there is something in place to prevent recurrences of this. One on one talks can take care of most of the issues.....if and only if, the addressing party can remain calm and professional. IF they are going to go to blows, get the officer involved right away. A good officer should also address this on a one on one case where it doesn't necessarily have to go higher than that. Keep a personal record, but such issues can be addressed with simple counseling.
Sure threats of violence can have an impact, but is it really the best thing, especially if there are others around? Sure such an issue may get more talk and threats than implementation, but let's look at things from a professional level as well. Threats of violence may be somewhat of a deterrent, but if other firefighters are like the ones like me and others I know....we'll see how far to push. Whereas, if it came down to saying how stupid such acts are and why it is wrong to screw with PPE, there is a respectful atmospehere as opposed to idle threats.
This why I also mentioned if this was a volunteer dept, I would make a mention of this at a dept meeting. Not any threats of violence, just why such actions are stupid and can be detrimental. On a career dept side, I would think this is something the house captain (or officer) should address with the crew as well as mention to other house officers so that it is addressed by all crews.
So yeah, a one on one would be first. Take the least action possible. I wouldn't stop someone from mentioning the issue to an officer or to keep a personal record. If the issue happens again, then it is time to take disciplinary action. For the most part, threats of violence are not as effective as to a career or position on the dept is threatened......and screwing with PPE, I would say is something that does have job implications...moreso than threats of violence.
I agree that it should be mentioned to the leadership also , even if the man to man talk reaches a good understanding. But I feel it should be brought up as a "general" type problem and not mention specifics or a name. Hopefully good leadership will address the issue in a "general" type way and get something in writing to back it up.
That would be me.
We used this as a question on an Oral Board....you should and did expect the same answers priviously posted in this thread.
Someone tampers with your gear, you tamper with their head....simple rule