Ok - there is no one exact right answer, with the exception of it should be handled man to man first. Many times its just as simple as explaining to the "offender" that ppe should be hands off. Many times people act without thinking it through. 9 times out of ten that will end it. If not , pass it up the chain of command. And if it still keeps up, I dont rule out taking it up off duty with your fists as a very last resort. I know many of the kindler gentler folks will call me out on this, but even in our so called civilized society, the implied threat of violence is a deterent. Will it escalate to that, I doubt it. Every one is wired a little different so their is no one right answer, but I can tell you that getting on an internet forum and getting some surface advise/knowledge about certain regulations, then running in shouting OSHA, NFPA, ACDC, ABBA, etc is the WRONG answer.
There , I fixed my reply to Jcrabby
We play with a bunch of stuff, but turnouts as a rule are off limits. Although occasionally a guy will get water or dry Kool Aid in the boots every now and then, but nothing that would prevent you from being able to use them.
don't do anything to gear that will slow down someone putting it on. Its all fun and games till a run comes in at shift change and the guy is slow getting on the truck, then we're hurting the people and property we're paid to protect. Besides why would I check my pants? If it was good when I took them off last, they should still be good right now.
Something minor like the above mentioned kool aid in the boots is pretty funny to me. Leaving comical pictures or items in them is also good for a laugh. If its something that will affect my performance or my ability to help a victim, you better run like hell when I find out.
Wouldnt want someone to lose their job over it though. Id prefer to handle it in house.
I have said before that turnout gear is off limits. However it still is pretty funny to see a probie pull up his drops and not notice the pink lace thong on them.
I picked up on your reply from before, but this is easier to address. Yes, I do agree with you in regards to addressing things, but first things first. If there is nothing by the dept that addresses PPE and the tampering of it, then there is no real other precedence to go off of or back things up with. So if a similar occurence occurs, all you may have is past practice, if lucky enough to be addressed....otherwise there is no precedence. Hence the reason to address that aspect first, because it is NOT addressed by NFPA, OSHA, etc.....this is a departmental issue.
As to how to handle, yes, I agree with addressing this one on one, first. This does pertain to having such SOG/Ps in place, if not, then it is imperative that there is something in place to prevent recurrences of this. One on one talks can take care of most of the issues.....if and only if, the addressing party can remain calm and professional. IF they are going to go to blows, get the officer involved right away. A good officer should also address this on a one on one case where it doesn't necessarily have to go higher than that. Keep a personal record, but such issues can be addressed with simple counseling.
Sure threats of violence can have an impact, but is it really the best thing, especially if there are others around? Sure such an issue may get more talk and threats than implementation, but let's look at things from a professional level as well. Threats of violence may be somewhat of a deterrent, but if other firefighters are like the ones like me and others I know....we'll see how far to push. Whereas, if it came down to saying how stupid such acts are and why it is wrong to screw with PPE, there is a respectful atmospehere as opposed to idle threats.
This why I also mentioned if this was a volunteer dept, I would make a mention of this at a dept meeting. Not any threats of violence, just why such actions are stupid and can be detrimental. On a career dept side, I would think this is something the house captain (or officer) should address with the crew as well as mention to other house officers so that it is addressed by all crews.
So yeah, a one on one would be first. Take the least action possible. I wouldn't stop someone from mentioning the issue to an officer or to keep a personal record. If the issue happens again, then it is time to take disciplinary action. For the most part, threats of violence are not as effective as to a career or position on the dept is threatened......and screwing with PPE, I would say is something that does have job implications...moreso than threats of violence.
I agree that it should be mentioned to the leadership also , even if the man to man talk reaches a good understanding. But I feel it should be brought up as a "general" type problem and not mention specifics or a name. Hopefully good leadership will address the issue in a "general" type way and get something in writing to back it up.
That would be me.
We used this as a question on an Oral Board....you should and did expect the same answers priviously posted in this thread.
Someone tampers with your gear, you tamper with their head....simple rule
We had a guy here get eggs put in his boots. Completely ruined them. The person who did it deserved a beating. Simple as that.
I can't believe this has gotten so many comments. Just don't fruck with someones gear. Don't fruck with what they eat. Common sense people.
If you do, you can expect a 55 gallon can of whoop ***** to hit you - either by the rules or outside of the rules.
There's never any reason to screw with gear. In fact, it should be that we make sure nothing happens to someone's gear if we see it out of place. I'd say not screwing with gear is the number one unwritten rule in the firehouse.
Posted by Bones42Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo
My gear was messed around with just once. I had been out IOD for 5 weeks (I slipped on a wet floor at a malicious false alarm at the high school and landed on my portable radio, screwed up my back) and when I returned to duty, a member of my group had secured a rather large pillow (using safety pins) to the backside of my bunker pants in case I fell down again. They really cared about me....
The big difference is this situation was the pillow on my gear was 100% visible. I didn't take it as ball busting, it was good for a laugh. I actually put them on pillow and all and walked into the kitchen to grab a cup of coffee just to see the reaction.Quote:
and yet some guys in this thread would kick a guy in the @$$, others would have him fired, and a small number of us would laugh at having our "balls busted".
Putting eggs, kool aid, shave cream or anything else in someone elses gear... those are grounds for disciplinary action.
I know it is not related, but long zip ties on the drive shaft of the BC's wagon, or truck of the dude you releive, is another classic. Takes some people forever to figure out what that noise is.
Never mind the safety issues, and everything else that's been brought up (but not minimizing them, either).
Odds are the trickster wouldn't appreciate the same thing being done to his gear, and would be very vocal if it was.
Do unto others...