Like Tree16Likes

Thread: tampering with Turnout Gear?

  1. #51
    Forum Member
    FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    We used to put round rocks or marbles in the hubcaps of the BC car, the auto industry took care of that for us, no more hubcaps.
    The old Chevy dog dish hubcaps were the best for that trick.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  2. #52
    Forum Member
    Wolfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Sounds to me like your gonna have to clean p your own mess.

    We play with a bunch of stuff, but turnouts as a rule are off limits. Although occasionally a guy will get water or dry Kool Aid in the boots every now and then, but nothing that would prevent you from being able to use them.

    So one could climb a 10-story building with Kool Aid in their boots?
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

  3. #53
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    You may find your mattress on the roof, but turn outs are strictly off limits.
    Not one to condone any type of violence, but getting caught may subject the violator to an old fashion blanket party.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  4. #54
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,429

    Default

    Once went on a run and saw that someone had used medical tape to put "Juicy" on the backside of a guy's turnout pants. He ended up directing traffic around down wires, the look on the passing motorists was priceless.

    That would be the limit, and even that was pushing it, but so funny.

  5. #55
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    ...The big difference is this situation...
    and there is a big difference in some simple ball busting/joking and possibly causing issues with turnout gear. Some guys miss that point...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #56
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfn View Post
    So one could climb a 10-story building with Kool Aid in their boots?
    Why couldn't you? You don't even know its there until you take them off and see that your socks and feet are whatever the Kool Aid is.

    A few things here:

    1. Anyone who has people messing with their stuff probably deserves it.

    2. Long visits after work and mess with people's head and kick their *** all translates to I would cry about it.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  7. #57
    Forum Member
    snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfn View Post
    So one could climb a 10-story building with Kool Aid in their boots?
    I wouldn't like every pair of socks I own to be red or purple for the life of the boots. How about shoe polish on the ear pieces of the headsets? I have seen Kool Aid sprinkled in the sweat band of a ball cap, or a bottle or two of Mio dumped in a tank.
    IAFF

  8. #58
    Forum Member
    FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    ... or a bottle or two of Mio dumped in a tank.
    Mmmm. Suppression and rehab combined. Genius!
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  9. #59
    Forum Member
    bcjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    I picked up on your reply from before, but this is easier to address. Yes, I do agree with you in regards to addressing things, but first things first. If there is nothing by the dept that addresses PPE and the tampering of it, then there is no real other precedence to go off of or back things up with. So if a similar occurence occurs, all you may have is past practice, if lucky enough to be addressed....otherwise there is no precedence. Hence the reason to address that aspect first, because it is NOT addressed by NFPA, OSHA, etc.....this is a departmental issue.

    As to how to handle, yes, I agree with addressing this one on one, first. This does pertain to having such SOG/Ps in place, if not, then it is imperative that there is something in place to prevent recurrences of this. One on one talks can take care of most of the issues.....if and only if, the addressing party can remain calm and professional. IF they are going to go to blows, get the officer involved right away. A good officer should also address this on a one on one case where it doesn't necessarily have to go higher than that. Keep a personal record, but such issues can be addressed with simple counseling.


    Sure threats of violence can have an impact, but is it really the best thing, especially if there are others around? Sure such an issue may get more talk and threats than implementation, but let's look at things from a professional level as well. Threats of violence may be somewhat of a deterrent, but if other firefighters are like the ones like me and others I know....we'll see how far to push. Whereas, if it came down to saying how stupid such acts are and why it is wrong to screw with PPE, there is a respectful atmospehere as opposed to idle threats.

    This why I also mentioned if this was a volunteer dept, I would make a mention of this at a dept meeting. Not any threats of violence, just why such actions are stupid and can be detrimental. On a career dept side, I would think this is something the house captain (or officer) should address with the crew as well as mention to other house officers so that it is addressed by all crews.

    So yeah, a one on one would be first. Take the least action possible. I wouldn't stop someone from mentioning the issue to an officer or to keep a personal record. If the issue happens again, then it is time to take disciplinary action. For the most part, threats of violence are not as effective as to a career or position on the dept is threatened......and screwing with PPE, I would say is something that does have job implications...moreso than threats of violence.
    In today's work environment, threats of violence, no matter how weak, are treated very seriously, and can result in severe disciplinary action. Workplace Violence is a "Hot Button" and most responsible departments and managers take it very seriously.
    everyonegoeshome.com

  10. #60
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bcjack View Post
    In today's work environment, threats of violence, no matter how weak, are treated very seriously, and can result in severe disciplinary action. Workplace Violence is a "Hot Button" and most responsible departments and managers take it very seriously.
    I know all about "todays workplace" and all the PC that it entails. I also have a brain and a fair amount of common sense. If I feel something has the need to escalate to that level,it will not be with an audience. And will not directly involve the "responsible department and manager" - the fact that you use the term "manager" as opposed to leader tells volumes.
    ?

  11. #61
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    ...the fact that you use the term "manager" as opposed to leader tells volumes.
    A manager may or may not be a leader. We all hope they will be, but not necessarily. But they're still in charge - they give orders and we follow those orders.

    A leader may or may not be a manager. Most of us have encountered a non-officer/manager who has the respect of all his/her co-workers (or to be fire-specific, fellow firefighters) and who we would follow anywhere. If an officer/manager is smart, they'll learn who these leaders are, and involve them.

    Said leaders (often called "opinion leaders") may not want to become an officer as such.

    In a case like this, perhaps a mention to the opinion leader might be a logical action.

    But when it comes down to something like discipline (even a verbal counselling), that's management's job. In the fire service, management is our officers.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  12. #62
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    A manager may or may not be a leader. We all hope they will be, but not necessarily. But they're still in charge - they give orders and we follow those orders.

    A leader may or may not be a manager. Most of us have encountered a non-officer/manager who has the respect of all his/her co-workers (or to be fire-specific, fellow firefighters) and who we would follow anywhere. If an officer/manager is smart, they'll learn who these leaders are, and involve them.

    Said leaders (often called "opinion leaders") may not want to become an officer as such.

    In a case like this, perhaps a mention to the opinion leader might be a logical action.

    But when it comes down to something like discipline (even a verbal counselling), that's management's job. In the fire service, management is our officers.
    Well , in my opinion -you can teach a leader how to be a good manager, but you cant ever teach a manager how to be a good leader. I feel like that is the problem not only in the fire service, but in our society in general. Too many managers , not enough leaders.

  13. #63
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Well , in my opinion -you can teach a leader how to be a good manager, but you cant ever teach a manager how to be a good leader. I feel like that is the problem not only in the fire service, but in our society in general. Too many managers , not enough leaders.
    Hence my long time signature.
    slackjawedyokel likes this.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  14. #64
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Hence my long time signature.
    I agree with it 100% - a good example of a "manager" can be viewed on the Detroit blanket thread. It just amazes me that so many of these so called managers think that all the answers to dealing with "people problems" can be found in a book and or the internet. The way you may need to deal with a personel problem will vary , not only from person to person , but may even require a different tact from day to day. Nothing wrong with taking in as much outside info (books etc) I really enjoy reading chief Carters take on things. But a true leader will take all info/sides into consideration and find the best solution to the issue from within.
    ?

  15. #65
    Forum Member
    bcjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I know all about "todays workplace" and all the PC that it entails. I also have a brain and a fair amount of common sense. If I feel something has the need to escalate to that level,it will not be with an audience. And will not directly involve the "responsible department and manager" - the fact that you use the term "manager" as opposed to leader tells volumes.
    Really????

    I would hope that if someone threatened violence against another worker, someone, be it a "Leader" or a "Manager" or a "Supervisor" or a "Co-worker" would not worry about being "PC" and take appropriate action to prevent the workplace violence, no matter where it happens. "PC" or whatever you want to call it, is just a bull**** cop out for not taking responsibility for preventing violence in the workplace. The dinosaur mentality of kicking someone's *** for upsetting you is long gone and the real world of today (like it or not) is not going to tolerate it.
    everyonegoeshome.com

  16. #66
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Any real leader will make sure his men know not to fcuk with bunker gear or other personal safety gear. So it's kind of a moot point.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  17. #67
    Forum Member
    snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bcjack View Post
    Really????

    I would hope that if someone threatened violence against another worker, someone, be it a "Leader" or a "Manager" or a "Supervisor" or a "Co-worker" would not worry about being "PC" and take appropriate action to prevent the workplace violence, no matter where it happens. "PC" or whatever you want to call it, is just a bull**** cop out for not taking responsibility for preventing violence in the workplace. The dinosaur mentality of kicking someone's *** for upsetting you is long gone and the real world of today (like it or not) is not going to tolerate it.
    This totally echoes a "workplace harassment" class. Sure, the dinosaur mentality is gone from the common tie wearing cubicle inhabitants. But while the creators of the 60 minute presentation about turning the other cheek, tattling openly, then suing the pants off of the accused and the business were cashing another check, most of the firefighters who were force fed this class were rolling their eyes and growing another layer of skin. I'm not advocating random acts of violence, that would be stupid. But if some jabroni feels he's protected from a knot on his head or a boot to his butt because the nice man wearing the suit in the video says he is, then there really isn't anything that is going to trigger that "maybe I shouldn't do this" part of his brain.

    I find it ironic that you would lambaste the term "PC" when your whole post was centered around being "politically correct". Thick skin should be a requirement before being allowed the priveledge of serving as a firefighter.
    IAFF

  18. #68
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bcjack View Post
    Really????

    I would hope that if someone threatened violence against another worker, someone, be it a "Leader" or a "Manager" or a "Supervisor" or a "Co-worker" would not worry about being "PC" and take appropriate action to prevent the workplace violence, no matter where it happens. "PC" or whatever you want to call it, is just a bull**** cop out for not taking responsibility for preventing violence in the workplace. The dinosaur mentality of kicking someone's *** for upsetting you is long gone and the real world of today (like it or not) is not going to tolerate it.
    Real world AKA "nanny state" - again when you used the term manager instead of leader, I knew exactley where you were coming from. Again I am not saying come unspun and punch the guy out at work. Most of the time things work out just fine man to man. And just out of curosity bjack -Im betting you didnt ride the school bus to school. Did mom/dad drive you in their mini van ?
    ?

  19. #69
    Forum Member
    bcjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Real world AKA "nanny state" - again when you used the term manager instead of leader, I knew exactley where you were coming from. Again I am not saying come unspun and punch the guy out at work. Most of the time things work out just fine man to man. And just out of curosity bjack -Im betting you didnt ride the school bus to school. Did mom/dad drive you in their mini van ?
    I walked to school, for whatever relevance that has. As typical with the less educated, when you can't win with facts, you resort to personal attacks.

    I spent most of my career serving as a Manager AND Leader, all the while continuing to be educated to keep from becoming a victim of the changing times. Like it or not, the "Nanny State" as you call it is here, and people take great pride in looking for those opportunities to sue someone for something workplace related. While I don't favor or like the "Nanny State" environment, it is here and if you want to survive, you need to know the rules and stay within them.
    everyonegoeshome.com

  20. #70
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,020

    Default

    Not a personal attack , just a theory of mine, it seems the school bus is where many many people learn about social interaction. Just out of curiousity (I know I spelled it wrong) why would you make a statement about education? Is that in your manager play book? And just because you say something is a rule, does not make it so.There is a big world out there and sometimes things dont go by the book. So one more question along the school bus line --- did your parents read Dr. Spock ?
    ?

  21. #71
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    13

    Default

    I think this is the best response yet, and if I may, would like to expand on it a bit. Following SOG's is always called for, but sometimes a realistic look at the root cause of the incident(s) is the most effective way to truly address the behavior. In every organization I've been involved with, employees are well aware that pranks involving PPE are off limits, and punished severely. If members Are aware of the seriousness of the violation, and choose to do it anyway, the existence of malice may be a safe assumption, as opposed to a playful prank. In plain English if your gear is being tampered with, one or more persons may dislike you intensely. I've dealt with this issue twice, and what it boiled down to was subordinates of an individual who didn't think they were being treated fairly, felt isolated from management, and acted out in an inappropriate manner. These issues are often overlooked as childish pranks or isolated incidents by problem employees, but are often a red flag for the organization with regard to morale issues, and in-station accountability. We reiterated the open door policy, encouraged firefighters to utilize it without fear of reprisal, and placed more emphasis on the 1X1 employee counseling. The gear and other issues stopped, and, coincidentally most of the candid conversations had to do with the individual who was on the receiving end of the pranks. After some retraining we felt we were on a better course for the entire event having happened. That being said, I'd still like to find out who the hell it was that ate asparagus then took a whiz in said supervisors Globe leathers. I'd tell him that I thought it was hilarious and clever as I handed him his last check and vacation pay, and would have politely suggested he not use me as a reference.

  22. #72
    Forum Member
    bcjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Not a personal attack , just a theory of mine, it seems the school bus is where many many people learn about social interaction. Just out of curiousity (I know I spelled it wrong) why would you make a statement about education? Is that in your manager play book? And just because you say something is a rule, does not make it so.There is a big world out there and sometimes things dont go by the book. So one more question along the school bus line --- did your parents read Dr. Spock ?
    Nope on Dr. Spock. They were very dedicated Reagan conservatives and taught me well.

    What did I say was a rule???

    I am well aware that there is a "big world out there" for I have been out there. I know that everything does not "go by the book", but going by the book will keep your *** out of trouble a lot more often than making it up as you go along.

    The statement about education is, in my experience, people who are less educated will resort to personal attacks when they run out of substance for their point of view.

    I suggest we agree to disagree and end the hijacking of this thread.

    I will close by stating that anyone who screws with someone's turnout should be disciplined as our turnouts are part of our PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT, and as stated in a number of posts, messing with someone's PPE can delay a response and/or get someone hurt. There are too many other things to mess with that don't affect a response or someone's safety to mess with their PPE.
    Last edited by bcjack; 10-15-2012 at 12:06 AM.
    everyonegoeshome.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What do you carry on/in your turnout gear/bunker gear?
    By Station7Cadet in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 03-21-2014, 10:44 AM
  2. Used Turnout Gear or Inexpensive Gear
    By MMedrow21 in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-04-2011, 09:25 PM
  3. Used Turnout Gear or Inexpensive Gear
    By MMedrow21 in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-25-2010, 12:36 PM
  4. Tampering
    By fireman81638 in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-17-2007, 09:56 AM
  5. Used Turnout Gear or Inexpensive Gear
    By MMedrow21 in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-14-2007, 10:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register