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Thread: tampering with Turnout Gear?

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    Default tampering with Turnout Gear?

    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that, as a leader, and as the firefighter who had their gear messed with.

    Thanks..


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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that, as a leader, and as the firefighter who had their gear messed with.

    Thanks..
    sounds lke a safety issue, and deal with it like any other safety issue

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    There is no place for messing with someone's gear. It is a significant safety and response issue. Punishment should be swift and severe. In a volunteer situation, depending on what was done, the person should be dismissed. In a full time department a suspension is in order. That should provide ample warning for anyone else considering this type of BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that, as a leader, and as the firefighter who had their gear messed with.

    Thanks..
    Not knowing all the facts involved, but I would question any firefighters maturity that did such an act, and whether or not they should work in the garbage department instead.

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    I dont think you are going to find anything in writing other than possibly your organization's own administrative guidelines. Do you know who did it and/or why they did it? Was it done with or without the authorization of a line officer? Were the two firefighters who's gear was swapped out notified of the action or given the chance to be there during the action so that they could get the contents of their pockets squared away?

    If the answer to any of the above is no, if I were the Chief I would immediately begin an investigation. Does the organization have security cams? If so I would review the footage to see who/what/when/where and then speak to the party. Question their action and act appropriately. If the switch was done in good nature, issue a light but firm warning to the party. if it was done with malicious intent or a "just because" intent, they would receive some kind of operational suspension with a recommendation for an administrative action of some kind.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    My department has a zero tolerance policy in our SOGs and bylaws. If anyone is caught messing with anothers gear, it is grounds for immediate termination as determined by the Chief. This may be sidestepped if the gear is being loaned to another member for training and approved by the Chief prior to the training and the other member notified.

    -Damien

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that

    You won't find anything in NFPA or OSHA relating to gear tampering. The real only recourse you may have is what your dept's SOP/Gs state in regards to PPE. If there is something stating that gear is not to be tampered with, then you have a recourse for disciplinary action. If you have nothing, then this is something the dept needs to address and such an SOP/G should be developed.

    How this gets handled depend on the type of dept you are. Sure there can be investigations etc, those responsible made examples of and so forth. I don't agree with that route. First I would say it depends on what the SOP/G states when it comes to investigations, discipline, etc. If none in place, then again something that should be. Either way, use the chain of command, report this to your officer or the chief, get it out there and known. Let things go from there, don't try to handle this on your own, this is now a dept matter, let it get handled.

    If you are a member of a volunteer dept, this is something I would definately bring up at a business meeting. Get it out there, get it on the minutes etc that it is wrong to be tampering with gear. Let the actual investigation process, disciplinary process etc get worked out by management, but get it known to the membership that this did occur. There may be some folks who are joking around, swapping like gear because of defects, fit etc and not think it as a big deal, or someone being malicious.

    Quite frankly discipline etc is up to management to decide. This may be taken care of with a simple addressig to the membership of the seriousness involved, or there may be further actions taken.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    One more thing I will add: Anyone fcks with my gear- the ensuing strange sensation they will feel in the seat of their pants will be my size 13 connecting with said seat of pants at a high velocity.
    FyredUp, rm1524 and RyanK63 like this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    FWD,

    We agree Brother. This may be one of the few times that a physical response to jaglaflooking around is appropriate.

    My simple mantra about this is "Don't mess with my gear and I won't make your life the living hell it should be if you do."
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    FWD,

    We agree Brother. This may be one of the few times that a physical response to jaglaflooking around is appropriate.

    My simple mantra about this is "Don't mess with my gear and I won't make your life the living hell it should be if you do."
    One can shenanigan around in the firehouse all they want- fill up someone's locker with styrofoam peanuts, put paper hole-punch clippies into an air vent, baby powder on the ceiling fan, roscoe smoke machine in the Bn Chief's Office (whistles innocently) but plain and simple- you dont fcuk with someone's gear. Dont do it and you wont get invited to the parking lot or locker room.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Still, someone turning around the boots in someone's bunker gear is hillarious. Not dangerous. Also is good to keep someone honest about checking their gear when they put it on the truck in the morning.

    Anything above that is not in good taste.
    ~Drew
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Still, someone turning around the boots in someone's bunker gear is hillarious. Not dangerous. Also is good to keep someone honest about checking their gear when they put it on the truck in the morning.

    Anything above that is not in good taste.
    I have to disagree with that.

    Screwing with gear is screwing with gear. You can say it isn't "dangerous", and it keeps someone honest about checking their gear, but it's bound to catch someone who walks in the door just as the bell hits, before they've had time to check.

    Leave PPE alone. There are more than enough ways to bust chops without d-cking around with somebody's gear.
    ffbam24 likes this.

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    My gear was messed around with just once. I had been out IOD for 5 weeks (I slipped on a wet floor at a malicious false alarm at the high school and landed on my portable radio, screwed up my back) and when I returned to duty, a member of my group had secured a rather large pillow (using safety pins) to the backside of my bunker pants in case I fell down again. They really cared about me....
    RangerJake72 likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Still, someone turning around the boots in someone's bunker gear is hillarious. Not dangerous. Also is good to keep someone honest about checking their gear when they put it on the truck in the morning.Anything above that is not in good taste.
    Do you know what else would be "hilarious"? Switching out someone's full SCBA bottle and replacing it with an empty one! Imagine the look on his face when he dons it at a fire and realizes there is no air in it!

    ...NOT!

    Anyone caught intentionally and/or maliciously tampering with any aspect of someone's PPE should be fired on the spot. I don't care if it is switching their gloves around or hiding their hood.

    How is turning someone's boots around in their bunker funny? From my perspective, when the firefighter in question dons his/her pants and realizes they are on backwards, the only thing accomplished is a delayed response while the affected member tries to straighten everything out.

    Maybe we can put gasoline in the booster tank? Imagine the nozzleman's reaction to that one!
    Last edited by dfwfirefighter; 10-08-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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    My rule around the firehouse has long been if it isn't mine keep my damn hands off of it. That is a simple rule that is hard to forget!
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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    Handle in HOUSE -not FIREhouse forums
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    FWD,

    We agree Brother. This may be one of the few times that a physical response to jaglaflooking around is appropriate.

    My simple mantra about this is "Don't mess with my gear and I won't make your life the living hell it should be if you do."
    Contradicts....

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    By the way, you may settle disagreements at this horrendously busy fire house you volly at by the use of physical force, its simply not allowed at any of the fire departments I am involved with.

    Hum. Someone is lying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Handle in HOUSE -not FIREhouse forums
    Right on Brother. You mess with my gear, you are going to be sorry you did!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigma View Post
    Contradicts....




    Hum. Someone is lying...
    For me calling someone a LIAR is a pretty good reason to get physical
    ?

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    I'm not a firefighter yet but even I know it's not wise to mess with turnout gear. Every second counts when trying to get to the emergency and messing with the turnout gear adds time to arrival.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

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