Like Tree16Likes

Thread: tampering with Turnout Gear?

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Poconos, Pa
    Posts
    796

    Default tampering with Turnout Gear?

    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that, as a leader, and as the firefighter who had their gear messed with.

    Thanks..

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that, as a leader, and as the firefighter who had their gear messed with.

    Thanks..
    sounds lke a safety issue, and deal with it like any other safety issue

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,767

    Default

    There is no place for messing with someone's gear. It is a significant safety and response issue. Punishment should be swift and severe. In a volunteer situation, depending on what was done, the person should be dismissed. In a full time department a suspension is in order. That should provide ample warning for anyone else considering this type of BS.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that, as a leader, and as the firefighter who had their gear messed with.

    Thanks..
    Not knowing all the facts involved, but I would question any firefighters maturity that did such an act, and whether or not they should work in the garbage department instead.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    I dont think you are going to find anything in writing other than possibly your organization's own administrative guidelines. Do you know who did it and/or why they did it? Was it done with or without the authorization of a line officer? Were the two firefighters who's gear was swapped out notified of the action or given the chance to be there during the action so that they could get the contents of their pockets squared away?

    If the answer to any of the above is no, if I were the Chief I would immediately begin an investigation. Does the organization have security cams? If so I would review the footage to see who/what/when/where and then speak to the party. Question their action and act appropriately. If the switch was done in good nature, issue a light but firm warning to the party. if it was done with malicious intent or a "just because" intent, they would receive some kind of operational suspension with a recommendation for an administrative action of some kind.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  6. #6
    Worldwide Menace
    DFurtman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wandering the World
    Posts
    541

    Default

    My department has a zero tolerance policy in our SOGs and bylaws. If anyone is caught messing with anothers gear, it is grounds for immediate termination as determined by the Chief. This may be sidestepped if the gear is being loaned to another member for training and approved by the Chief prior to the training and the other member notified.

    -Damien

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Hey just wondering if anyone here as dealt with persons tampering with turnout gear of other firefighters? In this case, someone witching bunker pants with another firefighter. I'm just looking for perhaps..something NFPA,OSHA, or something..and how you did deal/would deal with a situation like that

    You won't find anything in NFPA or OSHA relating to gear tampering. The real only recourse you may have is what your dept's SOP/Gs state in regards to PPE. If there is something stating that gear is not to be tampered with, then you have a recourse for disciplinary action. If you have nothing, then this is something the dept needs to address and such an SOP/G should be developed.

    How this gets handled depend on the type of dept you are. Sure there can be investigations etc, those responsible made examples of and so forth. I don't agree with that route. First I would say it depends on what the SOP/G states when it comes to investigations, discipline, etc. If none in place, then again something that should be. Either way, use the chain of command, report this to your officer or the chief, get it out there and known. Let things go from there, don't try to handle this on your own, this is now a dept matter, let it get handled.

    If you are a member of a volunteer dept, this is something I would definately bring up at a business meeting. Get it out there, get it on the minutes etc that it is wrong to be tampering with gear. Let the actual investigation process, disciplinary process etc get worked out by management, but get it known to the membership that this did occur. There may be some folks who are joking around, swapping like gear because of defects, fit etc and not think it as a big deal, or someone being malicious.

    Quite frankly discipline etc is up to management to decide. This may be taken care of with a simple addressig to the membership of the seriousness involved, or there may be further actions taken.
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    One more thing I will add: Anyone fcks with my gear- the ensuing strange sensation they will feel in the seat of their pants will be my size 13 connecting with said seat of pants at a high velocity.
    FyredUp, rm1524 and RyanK63 like this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    FWD,

    We agree Brother. This may be one of the few times that a physical response to jaglaflooking around is appropriate.

    My simple mantra about this is "Don't mess with my gear and I won't make your life the living hell it should be if you do."
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    FWD,

    We agree Brother. This may be one of the few times that a physical response to jaglaflooking around is appropriate.

    My simple mantra about this is "Don't mess with my gear and I won't make your life the living hell it should be if you do."
    One can shenanigan around in the firehouse all they want- fill up someone's locker with styrofoam peanuts, put paper hole-punch clippies into an air vent, baby powder on the ceiling fan, roscoe smoke machine in the Bn Chief's Office (whistles innocently) but plain and simple- you dont fcuk with someone's gear. Dont do it and you wont get invited to the parking lot or locker room.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    FiremanLyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Still, someone turning around the boots in someone's bunker gear is hillarious. Not dangerous. Also is good to keep someone honest about checking their gear when they put it on the truck in the morning.

    Anything above that is not in good taste.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    sfd1992's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Wa
    Posts
    404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Still, someone turning around the boots in someone's bunker gear is hillarious. Not dangerous. Also is good to keep someone honest about checking their gear when they put it on the truck in the morning.

    Anything above that is not in good taste.
    I have to disagree with that.

    Screwing with gear is screwing with gear. You can say it isn't "dangerous", and it keeps someone honest about checking their gear, but it's bound to catch someone who walks in the door just as the bell hits, before they've had time to check.

    Leave PPE alone. There are more than enough ways to bust chops without d-cking around with somebody's gear.
    ffbam24 likes this.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    My gear was messed around with just once. I had been out IOD for 5 weeks (I slipped on a wet floor at a malicious false alarm at the high school and landed on my portable radio, screwed up my back) and when I returned to duty, a member of my group had secured a rather large pillow (using safety pins) to the backside of my bunker pants in case I fell down again. They really cared about me....
    RangerJake72 likes this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    dfwfirefighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Lone Star State
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Still, someone turning around the boots in someone's bunker gear is hillarious. Not dangerous. Also is good to keep someone honest about checking their gear when they put it on the truck in the morning.Anything above that is not in good taste.
    Do you know what else would be "hilarious"? Switching out someone's full SCBA bottle and replacing it with an empty one! Imagine the look on his face when he dons it at a fire and realizes there is no air in it!

    ...NOT!

    Anyone caught intentionally and/or maliciously tampering with any aspect of someone's PPE should be fired on the spot. I don't care if it is switching their gloves around or hiding their hood.

    How is turning someone's boots around in their bunker funny? From my perspective, when the firefighter in question dons his/her pants and realizes they are on backwards, the only thing accomplished is a delayed response while the affected member tries to straighten everything out.

    Maybe we can put gasoline in the booster tank? Imagine the nozzleman's reaction to that one!
    Last edited by dfwfirefighter; 10-08-2012 at 02:38 PM.
    DFW



    "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    My rule around the firehouse has long been if it isn't mine keep my damn hands off of it. That is a simple rule that is hard to forget!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,048

    Default

    Handle in HOUSE -not FIREhouse forums
    ?

  17. #17
    Banned

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    FWD,

    We agree Brother. This may be one of the few times that a physical response to jaglaflooking around is appropriate.

    My simple mantra about this is "Don't mess with my gear and I won't make your life the living hell it should be if you do."
    Contradicts....

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    By the way, you may settle disagreements at this horrendously busy fire house you volly at by the use of physical force, its simply not allowed at any of the fire departments I am involved with.

    Hum. Someone is lying...

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Handle in HOUSE -not FIREhouse forums
    Right on Brother. You mess with my gear, you are going to be sorry you did!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigma View Post
    Contradicts....




    Hum. Someone is lying...
    For me calling someone a LIAR is a pretty good reason to get physical
    ?

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Wolfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    132

    Default

    I'm not a firefighter yet but even I know it's not wise to mess with turnout gear. Every second counts when trying to get to the emergency and messing with the turnout gear adds time to arrival.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigma View Post
    Contradicts....




    Hum. Someone is lying...
    Oh lookie boys! I have a stalker.

    And he is so smart he is copying and pastng things from a topic closed by the moderators.

    Hey Genius, POST REPORTED!!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    I still see a lot of comments about how an individual may handle the tampering of gear....and even calls for violence. How does that bode for the job? Sort of like in football, the second guy is the one that typically has the penalty called on them. So looking at some comments here of how another FF would jack another up and so forth....what does the dept rules state about that?


    Quite honestly the OP was asking if there is anything in NFPA or OSHA which addresses the tampering of gear.....there isn't. Such rules etc are a dept regulation, and there should be something in place to adress this, so things don't turn into physical altercations, etc.

    So if the OP is in a dept that doesn't have such regulations or SOG/P in place, then how does the issue really get addressed? How does it get prevented from happening again? Jack someone up? Yeah OK tough guys, face possible suspension/discipline, injury to you or another, etc...how does that help the situation? How does that help staffing when the tones drop?
    The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

  23. #23
    Banned

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    For me calling someone a LIAR is a pretty good reason to get physical
    Ah, so you would condone me kicking his *** for the other thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Oh lookie boys! I have a stalker.

    And he is so smart he is copying and pastng things from a topic closed by the moderators.

    Hey Genius, POST REPORTED!!
    Oh lookie boys! Someone got busted in a lie and is now going to cry about it like a little bitch.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    I still see a lot of comments about how an individual may handle the tampering of gear....and even calls for violence. How does that bode for the job? Sort of like in football, the second guy is the one that typically has the penalty called on them. So looking at some comments here of how another FF would jack another up and so forth....what does the dept rules state about that?

    Ok - there is no one exact right answer, with the exception of it should be handled man to man first. Many times its just as simple as explaining to the "offender" that ppe should be hands off. Many times people act without thinking it through. 9 times out of ten that will end it. If not , pass it up the chain of command. And if it still keeps up, I dont rule out taking it up off duty with your fists as a very last resort. I know many of the kindler gentler folks will call me out on this, but even in our so called civilized society, the implied threat of violence is a deterent. Will it escalate to that, I doubt it. Every one is wired a little different so their is no one right answer, but I can tell you that getting on an internet forum and getting some surface advise/knowledge about certain regulations, then running in shouting OSHA, NFPA, ACDC, ABBA, etc is the WRONG answer.
    Quite honestly the OP was asking if there is anything in NFPA or OSHA which addresses the tampering of gear.....there isn't. Such rules etc are a dept regulation, and there should be something in place to adress this, so things don't turn into physical altercations, etc.

    So if the OP is in a dept that doesn't have such regulations or SOG/P in place, then how does the issue really get addressed? How does it get prevented from happening again? Jack someone up? Yeah OK tough guys, face possible suspension/discipline, injury to you or another, etc...how does that help the situation? How does that help staffing when the tones drop?
    i guess I typed in the wrong space
    ?

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigma View Post

    Oh lookie boys! Someone got busted in a lie and is now going to cry about it like a little bitch.
    I admit I said it. And further, sometimes a swift kick in the butt is all some people understand. I was in no way suggesting that he be beaten to a pulp, or given a blanket party.

    Will you admit you suggested I kill myself, or that your guys would kick my ***, or that you wished I would get burned at a fire? Of course not.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 10-08-2012 at 04:48 PM.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What do you carry on/in your turnout gear/bunker gear?
    By Station7Cadet in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 03-21-2014, 10:44 AM
  2. Used Turnout Gear or Inexpensive Gear
    By MMedrow21 in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-04-2011, 09:25 PM
  3. Used Turnout Gear or Inexpensive Gear
    By MMedrow21 in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-25-2010, 12:36 PM
  4. Tampering
    By fireman81638 in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-17-2007, 09:56 AM
  5. Used Turnout Gear or Inexpensive Gear
    By MMedrow21 in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-14-2007, 10:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register