Does a Chief have authority to override state law

[mpfdcapt66]

With respect to the commercial vehicle laws in California and the pre trip inspection. If I am contacted by my Batallion Chief and told to "get on the road" to a non emergency planned event and I advise him that until my engineer completes the legally required pre trip inspection we will not be able to do so. He then restates his request and says thats an order.

Can I refuse this order as unlawful?

HELP - I'm faced with a decision that either has me violating CA state law or disobeying a direct order - what would you do?

[fire49]

think I would go with the BC, and metion nicely that the pre trip has not been done

do you have the specfic section reference you can post requireing the pre inspection

[mpfdcapt66]

I'll try and post the section of the law pertaining to the pre trip inspection for all to view, but I'm confident that he doesn't have the authority to do what he is doing after speaking to the CA Highway Patrol who enforces the commercial vehicle laws. So I'm now looking for

1. Any experiences out there dealing with this topic and how it was resolved.

2. The average time it takes most engineers to compentantly complete the pre trip inspection and its documentation. Most of the reading I have done suggests that this is one of the most violated laws on the books. In fact the Highway Patrol has stated that by the letter of the law we are required to reinspect after every run. Imagine the time impact if we have to start doing this.

Thanks again for your response

[fire49]

Should have asked

Do you have a daily vehicle inspection sog??

Do you have a daily vehicle inspection sign off sheet??

[BoxAlarm187]

Are fire apparatus considered to be CMV's in California? Are your drivers required to hold a CDL?

[mpfdcapt66]

Yes to both questions

[fire49]

and?????????

Should have asked

Do you have a daily vehicle inspection sog??

Do you have a daily vehicle inspection sign off sheet??

[scfire86]

You can not be forced to break the law. However, you had better be sure of your position before you decide to disobey the direct order.

When I say sure, I mean you better be able to know which part of the vehicle code supports your position and be able to cite it verbatim.

I used to sit around the table at pass-along and listen to the firehouse "lawyers" talk about the law. When pressed for proof of their position they would either make something up that was completely BS or snap like a dry twig stating it was something they "had heard."

After three decades in the firehouse, I became aware that the term, "I heard" was synonymous with "I have no clue."

[mpfdcapt66]

Are you for real???????? yes we have a dailly inspection log and yes we have a daily inspection sign off sheet. Can u get real or are u just a typical coffee table laywer? I thought this was a serious exchange of ideas. Good luck to you

[mpfdcapt66]

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your straight forward answer and the experience you bring to the table. I've only logged 22 years to date, but I have to agree with your assessment. I'm simply trying to see if anyone else has been down this road and could save me some valuable time. I've actually been in touch with a lawyer that specializes in public safety law and I'm happy to say that you are dead on with your thoughts. The fire chief was a fireman when I got hired and I've been friends with him since then, but the promotion to Chief caused some strange departure from common sense. I still hope he will listen and take one of the numerous solutions laid out in front of him that addresses the district's needs and goals while, at the same time, respecting the legal obligations of his employees. I will let you know how it turns out>

[fire49]

Are you for real???????? yes we have a dailly inspection log and yes we have a daily inspection sign off sheet. Can u get real or are u just a typical coffee table laywer? I thought this was a serious exchange of ideas. Good luck to you

Sorry !!!!!

Not all depts have a written requirement for daily vehicle check

If that does not address this problem seems like it needs a rewrite

Sounds like this is going to far, just set down with everyone and address the issue

Still have not seen the traffic code with the requirement posted

[fire49]

No reply

No traffic section reference

[wvfd702]

As an assistant chief and the owner of a trucking company I can give you some perspective. Federal law states that you have to do a daily pre trip. You do not have to do it after every run. This is true of fire trucks or big rigs. Once a day before you begin work. In reality it should only take about ten mins to go over the truck. Check tires, lights, brakes oil, water, ect. It in no way should be long and drawn out or take any signifgant amount of time. I hate to be a troll but alot of people use this as an excuse to screw off for 45 mins when it in no way should take that long. If your engineer is not retarded it shouldnt be an issue.