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Thread: Union Thuggery in NJ

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack61sgfd View Post
    Everything you mentioned (except for your department incentive) is because of the hard work of THE LOUISIANIA PROFESIONAL FIREFIGHTERS ASSISIATION. Every benefit comes under fire at the legislature and we have to work our *** off to keep them but you wouldn't know anything about that would you?? ??
    And I appreciatte that, but honestly, I'm far more concerned about the state of the volunteer fire service
    and mym volunteer department, which is why I am involved with the LA State Fireman's Association.

    If some of those benefits were taken away tommarrow, that would be fine. Right now, as firefighters in this state we have it much better than the average employee in the private sector. Would I miss them if some were taken away to reduce the cost of paid fire protection? Sure. Would I be heartbroken? No.
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I appreciatte that, but honestly, I'm far more concerned about the state of the volunteer fire service
    and mym volunteer department, which is why I am involved with the LA State Fireman's Association.

    If some of those benefits were taken away tommarrow, that would be fine. Right now, as firefighters in this state we have it much better than the average employee in the private sector. Would I miss them if some were taken away to reduce the cost of paid fire protection? Sure. Would I be heartbroken? No.
    I am 100% sure after reading this that you are nothing more than a troll. Only a troll would say the things you say. Only a troll would say he would rather see his pay and benefits drop rather than work to help those less fortunate be raised up.

    Nope, I can't take anything you say on this topic seriously any further because sadly if you are not a troll you are nothing more than a right wing lacky willing to sacrifice the lifestyle of the actual frefighters in your department over some assinine non-fact based hatred of Unions. Once again I pity your blatant stupidity...
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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I appreciatte that, but honestly, I'm far more concerned about the state of the volunteer fire service
    and mym volunteer department, which is why I am involved with the LA State Fireman's Association.

    If some of those benefits were taken away tommarrow, that would be fine. Right now, as firefighters in this state we have it much better than the average employee in the private sector. Would I miss them if some were taken away to reduce the cost of paid fire protection? Sure. Would I be heartbroken? No.
    When I read this, a movie quote popped into my head.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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    IAFF

  4. #184
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    When I read this, a movie quote popped into my head.
    I have used that numerous times. It is quite appropriate.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I am 100% sure after reading this that you are nothing more than a troll. Only a troll would say the things you say. Only a troll would say he would rather see his pay and benefits drop rather than work to help those less fortunate be raised up.

    Nope, I can't take anything you say on this topic seriously any further because sadly if you are not a troll you are nothing more than a right wing lacky willing to sacrifice the lifestyle of the actual frefighters in your department over some assinine non-fact based hatred of Unions. Once again I pity your blatant stupidity...
    The reality is that most public servants .. firefighters, cops and teachers ... are overpaid when compared to the private sector , and have much better benefits inclyding fully or nearly fully paid health benefits, garunteed yearly pay increases and generous vaction/holiday schedules. I'm sorry if that offends you but we are much better off, in most cases, than the public sector.

    That being said, there are 2 career departments within an hours drive of here that are not very well paid, and that is unfortuante, but even with that they are still garunteerd X number of vacation and holidays for X years of service, garunteed rank step increases and garunteed 2% per year wage increases. They are, at least in this part of the state, the exception and not the rule.

    As I said, would I be overlly happy if tommarrow the citizens demanded that we were paid less or our benefit package was reduced? No. But would I understand why? Yes. we are much better off than most of them for quite honestly, less work in a typical work day. If that makes me a right wing lacky, so be it. I'm grate ful for the job I have and grateful for the pay and benefits that come with it, but I understand that we are public servants, and if the public as a whole decides that we areshould have our pay and benefits reduced, in the end, we work for them.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  6. #186
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The reality is that most public servants .. firefighters, cops and teachers ... are overpaid when compared to the private sector , and have much better benefits inclyding fully or nearly fully paid health benefits, garunteed yearly pay increases and generous vaction/holiday schedules. I'm sorry if that offends you but we are much better off, in most cases, than the public sector.
    That's a bunch of BS. I have neighbors who work in private sector. Their compensation is far greater than mine when I worked. My wife works in the private sector. Her holidays are the same numbers of days as mine were. Her health care is fully paid, she works for one of the last companies that has a defined benefit pension and enjoys stock options. The last item is not part of any public servant's pay package. Clearly you must be referring to the jobs that you can qualify. That is not the norm. Most people that have good jobs in the private sector are not nearly as stupid as you.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That being said, there are 2 career departments within an hours drive of here that are not very well paid, and that is unfortuante, but even with that they are still garunteerd X number of vacation and holidays for X years of service, garunteed rank step increases and garunteed 2% per year wage increases. They are, at least in this part of the state, the exception and not the rule.
    What's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As I said, would I be overlly happy if tommarrow the citizens demanded that we were paid less or our benefit package was reduced? No. But would I understand why? Yes. we are much better off than most of them for quite honestly, less work in a typical work day. If that makes me a right wing lacky, so be it. I'm grate ful for the job I have and grateful for the pay and benefits that come with it, but I understand that we are public servants, and if the public as a whole decides that we areshould have our pay and benefits reduced, in the end, we work for them.
    Hypothetical. But I have no doubt you would take that reduction willingly given that you have a make work government job that produces nothing that can be measured and could go away tomorrow and no one would notice.
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The reality is that most public servants .. firefighters, cops and teachers ... are overpaid when compared to the private sector , and have much better benefits inclyding fully or nearly fully paid health benefits, garunteed yearly pay increases and generous vaction/holiday schedules. I'm sorry if that offends you but we are much better off, in most cases, than the public sector.
    Who in the public sector are you comparing them to?

    I know in my area, our pay and benefits are nothing to complain about from our side. Yes, we make substantially more than the average public sector food service employee for example, but when you compare us to public sector skilled labor (plumbers, electricians, construction, nurses, etc.), the gap isn't that large and on some things, we are behind them.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Who in the public sector are you comparing them to?

    I know in my area, our pay and benefits are nothing to complain about from our side. Yes, we make substantially more than the average public sector food service employee for example, but when you compare us to public sector skilled labor (plumbers, electricians, construction, nurses, etc.), the gap isn't that large and on some things, we are behind them.
    Amen to that. The plumber I used in my rentals made a lot more money that I.
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  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Amen to that. The plumber I used in my rentals made a lot more money that I.
    And most plumbers aren't paid to sleep or spend hours in the recliner.


    Sorry to say it, but when you look at most firefighter's postions in most deparrtments, we have a pretty good life at work compared to plumbers, construction workers and many other positions that may be paid more.

    I don't want to turn this into a anti-career thread, but we have to look honestly at what we do. Should we be paid well given the risk? Sure. But there are unions out there that quite frankly, have pushed the envelope and now the citizens are looking critically at what we recieve for compenation, and are pushing back, and in some cases, it's justified.

    This thread is about unions, and I stated quite frankly that we have no need for a union in my department as we have an excellent relationsip with management, and have most if not all of the "benefits" of being unionized without being unionized .We have good wages and benefits, input on development of operational policies, input on budgeting and purchasing and have no issues with disciplinary procedures, yet there are those that somehow continue to say that we should be unionized, if for no other reason, to suppor other career firefighters and the union.

    The fact is I am and always will be completly anti-union. And will have significant issues if for some reason down the line, the other career members vote to become unionized.

    Sorry, but that is how I feel.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    The fact is I am and always will be completly anti-union. And will have significant issues if for some reason down the line, the other career members vote to become unionized.

    Sorry, but that is how I feel.
    That is because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I work both in the public and private sectors and you are completely wrong. As others have pointed out, you have the wages and benefits you have because of unions. But like a good little sheep, you toe the "unions are bad" line. Your statement also shows how pointless it is to debate with someone so completely brainwashed as you appear to be.
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  11. #191
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The reality is that most public servants .. firefighters, cops and teachers ... are overpaid when compared to the private sector , and have much better benefits inclyding fully or nearly fully paid health benefits, garunteed yearly pay increases and generous vaction/holiday schedules. I'm sorry if that offends you but we are much better off, in most cases, than the public sector.
    More idiotic nonsense from you. Firefighters don't even rate in the top 40 blue collar jobs according to the Labor Department.

    And, weeping Mary at the cross, please learn to spell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And most plumbers aren't paid to sleep or spend hours in the recliner.
    Neither are most firefighters.

    We are paid to staff firehouses and apparatus, to maintain our facilities, apparatus and equipment, to be prepared to immediately respond to fire, rescue and/or EMS situations and to respond and operate at such incidents. Some of us also perform other duties like fire safety education, building inspections, hydrant inspections, hose testing, etc.

    Yes, there are times in which many of us don't have actual "work" needing to be performed and may enjoy some time watching TV or catching some Zs, but having "downtime" is not the same thing as specifically being paid to do "non-work".


    Sorry to say it, but when you look at most firefighter's postions in most deparrtments, we have a pretty good life at work compared to plumbers, construction workers and many other positions that may be paid more.
    I don't think anybody would disagree, but that doesn't mean pay and benefits cuts should be in order.

    I don't want to turn this into a anti-career thread, but we have to look honestly at what we do. Should we be paid well given the risk? Sure. But there are unions out there that quite frankly, have pushed the envelope and now the citizens are looking critically at what we recieve for compenation, and are pushing back, and in some cases, it's justified.
    Yes, there are examples of what could be considered "overreach" or "unreasonable" demands by some Locals. However, most are rather reasonable about how they conduct business. Additionally, there are also many examples of "overreach" and "unreasonable" demands by municipal administrators.

    The citizens in many cases are pushing back because they have been fed a lot of propaganda by various sources and are not always basing that push back on actual facts. We commonly see the extreme examples, like somebody retiring "young" and with a pension close to or more than what their regular base pay was. However, the reality is that most guys aren't retiring "young" and when they do, they retire with a rather nominal pension and no Social Security benefits.

    This thread is about unions, and I stated quite frankly that we have no need for a union in my department as we have an excellent relationsip with management, and have most if not all of the "benefits" of being unionized without being unionized .We have good wages and benefits, input on development of operational policies, input on budgeting and purchasing and have no issues with disciplinary procedures, yet there are those that somehow continue to say that we should be unionized, if for no other reason, to suppor other career firefighters and the union.
    I don't think anybody is saying that you should organize simply to support other career FFs and the Union.
    Last edited by FireMedic049; 11-28-2012 at 12:12 PM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Neither are most firefighters.

    We are paid to staff firehouses and apparatus, to maintain our facilities, apparatus and equipment, to be prepared to immediately respond to fire, rescue and/or EMS situations and to respond and operate at such incidents. Some of us also perform other duties like fire safety education, building inspections, hydrant inspections, hose testing, etc.
    LAFE (rhymes with taffy) just proved that he has no clue what it means to be a firefighter. As Nozz pointed out, he continually makes spelling errors. No big deal except for the fact he works in Pub Ed. Which is scary.
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  14. #194
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    Posted by Clueless Bobby
    The reality is that most public servants .. firefighters, cops and teachers ... are overpaid when compared to the private sector , and have much better benefits inclyding fully or nearly fully paid health benefits, garunteed yearly pay increases and generous vaction/holiday schedules. I'm sorry if that offends you but we are much better off, in most cases, than the public sector.
    Please tell us where this happens....name ONE FD that is overpaid, has fully paid or nearly fully paid benefits, guaranteed yearly pay increases and generous vacation holiday schedules.



    By the way... when you do post the benefits package, salary schedules and the number of vacation days and holidays the firefighters get. You opened the worm can, so put up or shut up, cupcake.

    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 11-28-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Posted by Clueless Bobby


    Please tell us where this happens....name ONE FD that is overpaid, has fully paid or nearly fully paid benefits, guaranteed yearly pay increases and generous vacation holiday schedules.
    As for his silly claims that we are overpaid compared to our "private sector" counterparts, I call BS. One of my guys left public fire service a few years ago to work for the fire department at Eastman. I know what his starting pay was when he first turned in his notice. Public safety overpaid compared to their private safety counterparts? Absolute bull.

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    I know that the starting salary for a probationary firefighter in the FDNY qualifies him/her to get food stamps...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    While we're on jack-assery...I came across this earlier today.
    http://affordablepublicservice.com/Home_Page.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The reality is that most public servants .. firefighters, cops and teachers ... are overpaid when compared to the private sector , and have much better benefits inclyding fully or nearly fully paid health benefits, garunteed yearly pay increases and generous vaction/holiday schedules. I'm sorry if that offends you but we are much better off, in most cases, than the public sector.

    PROVE IT! Put skilled labor private sector jobs up against skilled labor public sector jobs and you couldn't possibly be more wrong about pay and benefits. It is absolutely ludicrous to compare firefighting jobs to fast food workers, store clerks, and stockboys.

    That being said, there are 2 career departments within an hours drive of here that are not very well paid, and that is unfortuante, but even with that they are still garunteerd X number of vacation and holidays for X years of service, garunteed rank step increases and garunteed 2% per year wage increases. They are, at least in this part of the state, the exception and not the rule.

    Guaranteed raises? By state law? NOT HERE, we have no guarantee of raises, of benefits or anything else until after negotiations for our contract. So perhaps until you work to eliminate that automatic raise you should shut your pie hole about what Unions get AFTER negotiations for their employees. Because it sounds to me like that guaranteed 2% is for every firefighter, whether they are a hard worker or a slug. Talk about an incentive killer!!

    As I said, would I be overlly happy if tommarrow the citizens demanded that we were paid less or our benefit package was reduced? No. But would I understand why? Yes. we are much better off than most of them for quite honestly, less work in a typical work day. If that makes me a right wing lacky, so be it. I'm grate ful for the job I have and grateful for the pay and benefits that come with it, but I understand that we are public servants, and if the public as a whole decides that we areshould have our pay and benefits reduced, in the end, we work for them.

    You know what my answer has become to people who complain about my NEGOTIATED pay and benefits is "Golly it must suck to realize you picked the wrong profession at this late stage of your life." I say to them does it make sense to try to destroy what I have so I am equal to you or have me help you try to improve your pay and benefits.

    There will always be disparity, not every job is valued the same and they never will be. For someone who is a self proclaimed right winger like you are, I am surprised at your communist attitude that every worker is exactly the same with no more worth or value no matter what they do.
    For someone who is supposedly college educated why can't you spell simple words like tomorrow, overly, and guarantee? I hope you have spell check for any official documents you send out.
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  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    There will always be disparity, not every job is valued the same and they never will be. For someone who is a self proclaimed right winger like you are, I am surprised at your communist attitude that every worker is exactly the same with no more worth or value no matter what they do.
    I have asked numerous conservatives a question that is along this line. Assuming one believes the public is overpaid, how will grinding down the price of wages help bolster the middle class in the private sector?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I have asked numerous conservatives a question that is along this line. Assuming one believes the public is overpaid, how will grinding down the price of wages help bolster the middle class in the private sector?
    It won't. Ask them to define overpaid.
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