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Thread: Union Thuggery in NJ

  1. #41
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    can this idiotic f*cking title be changed please
    ... .
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  2. #42
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Change it to "Union Thuggery Causes Snack Food Maker to Close".

    That title will fit.
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  3. #43
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Change it to "Union Thuggery Causes Snack Food Maker to Close".

    That title will fit.

    Expressing your toolness any way you can, huh?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Change it to "Union Thuggery Causes Snack Food Maker to Close".

    That title will fit.
    Are you really that uninformed or just a troll?

    If you read anything on the business history of Hostess they repeatedly shot themselves in the foot. They have filed for reorganization under bankruptcy laws before, the last time in 2011. They attempted to destroy their famous Wonder Bread line by closing regional bakeries, adding preservatives that changes the taste and texture of the bread costing them customers. They failed to join the market with a whole wheat or multi-grain bread until way late in the change over to that type of bread. They hired incompetent managers that despite previous wage and benefit concessions from employees still couldn't keep the company viable, even after failing to pay $160 million owed to the pension fund, in direct violation of the Union contract. Yes the strike was the final hole in the Hostess boat that sank the company, but a little history shows that previous holes had been plugged with chewing gum.

    Do some research before spouting off, you won't look so uninformed or just plain ignorant.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the pay raises for upper management at the time the company was saying it was broke...

    As the company was asking for more givebacks from workers, a group of creditors said in court papers that the company “may have manipulated its executives’ salaries higher in the months leading up to its Chapter 11 filing,” again according to the WSJ. According to the creditors’ court filing, the following Hostess executives saw substantial salary increases in July 2011:

    ■Brian Driscoll, CEO, from around $750,000 to $2,550,000
    ■Gary Wandscheider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000
    ■John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000
    ■David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
    ■Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
    ■Richard Seban, EVP, $375,00o to $656,256
    ■John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000
    ■Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
    ■Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
    ■Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 t0 $273,008
    Last edited by FyredUp; 11-20-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Are you really that uninformed or just a troll?
    I'm going with an uninformed troll.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #46
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    I don't think GT is a troll, and I don't think he's uninformed either. I think he has just been "informed" for too long by Fox, Rush, Hannity, Fox, and Fox. He thinks he's welcome into their club when they just need his soul for traction on their way to more and more for them.

    GT buddy, switch that radio station to some music, I hear that FM thing is really starting to catch on!
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    I've got a riddle for ya, GT. What union killed Kodak?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I don't think GT is a troll, and I don't think he's uninformed either. I think he has just been "informed" for too long by Fox, Rush, Hannity, Fox, and Fox. He thinks he's welcome into their club when they just need his soul for traction on their way to more and more for them.

    GT buddy, switch that radio station to some music, I hear that FM thing is really starting to catch on!
    He needs to go from "Faux Shlock" to CLASSIC ROCK!
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    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Are you really that uninformed or just a troll?

    If you read anything on the business history of Hostess they repeatedly shot themselves in the foot. They have filed for reorganization under bankruptcy laws before, the last time in 2011. They attempted to destroy their famous Wonder Bread line by closing regional bakeries, adding preservatives that changes the taste and texture of the bread costing them customers. They failed to join the market with a whole wheat or multi-grain bread until way late in the change over to that type of bread. They hired incompetent managers that despite previous wage and benefit concessions from employees still couldn't keep the company viable, even after failing to pay $160 million owed to the pension fund, in direct violation of the Union contract. Yes the strike was the final hole in the Hostess boat that sank the company, but a little history shows that previous holes had been plugged with chewing gum.

    Do some research before spouting off, you won't look so uninformed or just plain ignorant.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the pay raises for upper management at the time the company was saying it was broke...
    Yeah man, I am a troll. 7 years and ~3,000 posts just to mask my real reason for being here. Good one.

    I realize that my views on this particular subject won't align with most of the guys in this forum or in the fire service in general.

    I got over that a long time ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  10. #50
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Yeah man, I am a troll. 7 years and ~3,000 posts just to mask my real reason for being here. Good one.

    I realize that my views on this particular subject won't align with most of the guys in this forum or in the fire service in general.

    I got over that a long time ago.
    7 years and 3000 posts and you cant see why this absolutely idiotic thread is offensive? BMA.

    Lets all plug our ears with our fingers and blame it on our "views not aligning".
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 11-21-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I've got a riddle for ya, GT. What union killed Kodak?
    Intresting you should mention Kodak as I recently heard a discussion on this exact subject on NPR. Yes, I do listen to NPR as well as Fox.

    The segment discussed why Kodak failed, and the reason was simple. They failed to look forward and adopt new technologies and instead kept doing what they had always been doing, and by the time they realized that there was no longer a need for thier product because of the new technologies, it was too late to right the ship.

    As far as this subject, yes, this is another example of a union failing to regognize the need to accept reduce wages and benefits and instead holding out, or should I say, demanding, what simply wasn't there. The company made a rational decision to shut down because, in part, of what the union wanted.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-21-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Intresting you should mention Kodak as I recently heard a discussion on this exact subject on NPR. Yes, I do listen to NPR as well as Fox.

    The segment discussed why Kodak failed, and the reason was simple. They failed to look forward and adopt new technologies and instead kept doing what they had always been doing, and by the time they realized that there was no longer a need for thier product because of the new technologies, it was too late to right the ship.

    As far as this subject, yes, this is another example of a union failing to regognize the need to accept reduce wages and benefits and instead holding out, or should I say, demanding, what simply wasn't there. The company made a rational decision to shut down because, in part, of what the union wanted.
    The Unions had already made concessions to keep the company afloat... the executives squandered it and as with Kodak, refused to keep up with consumer demand. They also changed the formula for Wonder Bread, the customers stopped buying it. Add the fact that they gave themselves enormous raises while running the company into the ground makes the "it's the union's fault" argument a lie.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    The Unions had already made concessions to keep the company afloat... the executives squandered it and as with Kodak, refused to keep up with consumer demand. They also changed the formula for Wonder Bread, the customers stopped buying it. Add the fact that they gave themselves enormous raises while running the company into the ground makes the "it's the union's fault" argument a lie.
    LAFE continues to prove that he is clueless. Well said.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Yeah man, I am a troll. 7 years and ~3,000 posts just to mask my real reason for being here. Good one.

    I realize that my views on this particular subject won't align with most of the guys in this forum or in the fire service in general.

    I got over that a long time ago.
    No, it isn't as simple as your views don't allign with others here. YOU ARE 100% WRONG ON THIS SUBJECT. There is nothing to get over other than your closed mindedness.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  15. #55
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    As far as this subject, yes, this is another example of a union failing to regognize the need to accept reduce wages and benefits and instead holding out, or should I say, demanding, what simply wasn't there. The company made a rational decision to shut down because, in part, of what the union wanted.
    You are so totally clueless on this topic that it is beyond your usually idiocy. The Union MADE concessions in the past only to have management vote themselves HUGE raises. Meanwhile, the company stopped paying contracturally required pension contributions to the tune of $160 MILLION. The company had PREVIOUSLY filed for Chapter 11 and FAILED miserably to bring the company back around.

    The fact that through a failed experiment to add preservatives to Wonder Bread, and cut the number of regional bakeries, that changed the texture and taste and almost destroyed that customer base cost them millions, and their failure to early on add a whole wheat or whole grain bread while the rest of the market was capitalizing on the switch to healthier bread spelled the beginning of the end of Hostess. The healthier foods craze totally missed by the Hostess snack foods line was another nail in the coffin. NONE OF THOSE ISSUES CAN BE BLAMED ON THE BAKER"S UNION. Was the strike the final nail? Sort of, it was coming anyways, all this did was hasten the end. The fact is, this made the Union an excellent scape goat for the ridiculously uninformed.
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  16. #56
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    This crap will continue as long as there are CEO's with no morals, and a public gullible enough to believe that the unions and not their greed causes corporations to fail. It's the same as the mafia when they busted out a small business, they come in, squander all the poor guys credit, liquidate his assets, then split leaving him to file for bankruptcy.
    Hmm...Bain Capital much?
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  17. #57
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    In general, unions are the only thing that stands between what we have now and slave labor in places like china and others. The problem is we have a up hill battle, they can make things so cheap.

    People need to get over these blinders like gay marrage, black, white, unions, ect. Unless you are rich it might not be a good idea to pull the R handle "just because".
    I had a PT not too long ago that was complaining about democrats when he has food stamps, medicaid, and sec 8 housing.

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  18. #58
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Of couse if my back doesn't stop giving me problems i will be on these as well
    Bring enough hose.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The fact is, this made the Union an excellent scape goat for the ridiculously uninformed.
    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    This crap will continue as long as there are CEO's with no morals, and a public gullible enough to believe that the unions and not their greed causes corporations to fail. It's the same as the mafia when they busted out a small business, they come in, squander all the poor guys credit, liquidate his assets, then split leaving him to file for bankruptcy.
    Hmm...Bain Capital much?
    I think it is safe to say none of us will ever have to worry about booking any trips to Stockholm to watch LAFE pick up any prizes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Intresting you should mention Kodak as I recently heard a discussion on this exact subject on NPR. Yes, I do listen to NPR as well as Fox.

    The segment discussed why Kodak failed, and the reason was simple. They failed to look forward and adopt new technologies and instead kept doing what they had always been doing, and by the time they realized that there was no longer a need for thier product because of the new technologies, it was too late to right the ship.

    As far as this subject, yes, this is another example of a union failing to regognize the need to accept reduce wages and benefits and instead holding out, or should I say, demanding, what simply wasn't there. The company made a rational decision to shut down because, in part, of what the union wanted.

    The answer for Kodak is none, Kodak's management fooled its workers into believing they'd be taken care of (I believe George Eastman was true to this and some of his predecessors, but in recent history not a chance) without unions or collective bargaining. Now workers and retirees are seeing massive cuts in pay and benefits. The point is, Kodak and Hostess are very similar in why they failed. It has little to nothing to do with unions, it has to do with incompetence at the top. The difference is, when Hostess has problems they blame the union. Kodak isn't unionized, so no union to blame. Instead the talking heads talk mostly about how the world changed around Kodak, some place blame on management, but few of been as harsh on management as they would have been on the union. The actions of Kodak's CEO Antonio Perez show why unions are so important, as Kodak is limping along days from death and cutting workers and benefits, Perez has been ensuring he gets paid, other managers get bonuses (apparently those that ran the company into the ground are needed to right the ship, so they get retention bonuses).

    The fact is pay for cooperate mangers has balloned over the past 40 years while the pay for workers has barely kept with inflation. In fact, economists are calling the last 10 years the "lost decade" because worker pay hasn't kept up with inflation. Its as if we're making the same or less than we did 10 years ago. What people fail to realize is until worker pay goes up we'll never get out of this recession, people need to have money to buy goods and services. Without money, their is no buyer, without a buyer, there's no need for that product or service, without a need for a product/service there's no need for the workers who make or provide that product.


    P.S. the ironic thing is Kodak researchers invented the digital camera.

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