Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 15 123411 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 284
Like Tree75Likes

Thread: Union Thuggery in NJ

  1. #1
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default Union Thuggery in NJ

    I wonder if they will turn away non-union firefighters too?
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...n-Relief-Crews
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.


  2. #2
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,055

    Default

    Just amazing. I believe any future contract the utilities make should stipulate that this is not permissible in times of disaster declarations or states of emergency. But that would probably never make it through.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  3. #3
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    I laugh at Breitbart. They are critical of the president. From what I can tell, he had zero input in this decision. The Governor should have no problem making that call if they believe these relief workers were needed.
    DeputyMarshal and ATFDFF like this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #4
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I laugh at Breitbart. They are critical of the president. From what I can tell, he had zero input in this decision. The Governor should have no problem making that call if they believe these relief workers were needed.
    At this point the entire country should be critical of the president.
    RangerJake72 likes this.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  5. #5
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    At this point the entire country should be critical of the president.
    Why? What did he do wrong n this situation? It seems response is a hell of a lot faster than for Katrina.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  6. #6
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Why? What did he do wrong n this situation? It seems response is a hell of a lot faster than for Katrina.
    This is the United States of America in 2012. There is NO reason why 72 hours after the storm hit that ANYONE should be going without help. Katrina was a mess, but a lot of the fault there was on the state level government. Things like what are going on right now are uncalled for. Not to mention you didn't have local city leaders planning a damned marathon across the river from a war zone when they should be worried about their people instead. I bet these folks would have a different view on your opinion of response times.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...FEMA-Red-Cross
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  7. #7
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    This is the United States of America in 2012. There is NO reason why 72 hours after the storm hit that ANYONE should be going without help.
    That would ring true if there was one rescuer for every three people. What are the ratios there? I don't have a clue, I'm thinking 1:1000 maybe? If something happened here like that, we would not be able to reach everyone in that time.
    IAFF

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Catlettsburg, KY
    Posts
    378

    Default

    If I am reading the Federal Authorities for Disaster Response correctly, the authoritative director, most likely DHS, has the authority to suspend contracts and direct resources as needed. There are interstate agreements for this under energy trading also in events of natural disasters. Its like our mutual aid agreements, if you are called go whether union or not. The Union in this case does not have a right to turn workers away. But whose responsibility is it to mitigate this situation? Is it the President's. Governor's, FEMA Director's, Energy Secretary's? No one really knows. I would almost venture to say if it had been Wednesday next week when this occurred this would not even be a discussion because those people would be working.

    As for not providing help/aid to people, I am not sure but take the lady in the video for instance. There was a mandatory evacuation ordered. She chose to stay. She still chooses to stay. How many people decided that? They offer shelter, food and water but she chooses not to go. What do you do? I know there was a lot in the news is telling the truth. Chris Christie ordered it. Now who do you help first because unfortunately decision like that must be made in a situation this severe because there simply is not enough people and logistics are extremely difficult.

    I would bet the emergency workers are working as hard as they can. Don't blame them. As for getting power back. What do these people expect. There are entire backbones gone. They need rebuilt from scratch. It takes time.

    I also think Obama and Christie did a good job of not making this a political circus. Kudos to both of them.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    This is the United States of America in 2012. There is NO reason why 72 hours after the storm hit that ANYONE should be going without help. Katrina was a mess, but a lot of the fault there was on the state level government. Things like what are going on right now are uncalled for. Not to mention you didn't have local city leaders planning a damned marathon across the river from a war zone when they should be worried about their people instead. I bet these folks would have a different view on your opinion of response times.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...FEMA-Red-Cross
    Almost all of the problems of Katrina lied with the city of New Orleans and the state. Many of the parish governments around NO actually had plans but had tremendous difficulty implementing them due to problems in terms of planning and coordination with the State Office of Emergency Management.

    They refused to adequatly prepare and asked for little in the way of staged resources from not only FEMA but also within the state itself. they failed to acknowledge the breeching of the leeves until the problem had become significant and even after that, failed to request adequate resources until well into the incident.

    The state of LA screwed up the response to Katrina, not FEMA, and quite honestly continues to have major issues with hurricane response to this day.

    As far as this particiluar post the fact the the local union made an issue of the fact that these members from Alabama were not unionized firefighters simply disgusts me. The fact is that this is asituation where union afflication should have no place in accepting assistance in either case (fire service or utility).

    As the previous poster stated, amny of the residents that need help now were asked or told to evacuate and choose not to. IMO, they made a choice to stay despite the warnings and now, sorry to say, they must live with the choice as it's simply unreasonable to expect the level of assistance being avaialble this soon after the incident given the intensity and size of the storm.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-02-2012 at 04:03 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  10. #10
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    What a surprise. The story on Breitbart is bogus.

    I am constantly amused at the idiocy that comes out of outlets like Breitbart and the gullibility of those that read them.

    Excerpt:

    Representatives with Huntsville Utilities and Joe Wheeler Cooperative, two area utilities mentioned in media reports claiming their crews were not allowed to help with storm aid in New Jersey because they were non-union, said this morning the story is untrue.

    The general manager of the other department mentioned, Decatur Utilities, has since verified claims that his workers were asked to affiliate with a union.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  11. #11
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    At this point the entire country should be critical of the president.
    Really? During the Bush Administration conservatives considered criticism of the president as Unamerican. Especially since there were troops on harms way and it would be bad for troop morale.

    We still have troops in harms way and conservatives routinely criticize the president. Can you tell us what happened to cause such a dramatic shift in attitude?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #12
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The state of LA screwed up the response to Katrina, not FEMA, and quite honestly continues to have major issues with hurricane response to this day.
    It didn't help that the Bush appointed FEMA Director was more concerned about getting the right tie at Nordstroms than he was in filling the leadership void in LA.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As far as this particiluar post the fact the the local union made an issue of the fact that these members from Alabama were not unionized firefighters simply disgusts me. The fact is that this is asituation where union afflication should have no place in accepting assistance in either case (fire service or utility).
    You continue to prove why many consider you to be one of the stupidest individuals to ever claim they are part of the fire service. The issue isn't non-union firefighters being allowed to provide assistance. In this case it is electricians and power line workers being able to help get the power back to the affected neighborhoods.

    What a toolbag.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    It didn't help that the Bush appointed FEMA Director was more concerned about getting the right tie at Nordstroms than he was in filling the leadership void in LA.

    Guess what .. It's not FEMA's role to fill at "leadership void" the the state level. It's the state's EMO job to run and coordinate the operation in thier state, not the feds. FEMA was never setup nor designed to step into and take over a state's response to a disaster. It was designed to supplement the state response and command structure and provide coodination for REQUESTED federal resources from the states, and that happened way too little an way to late in Katrina as the local OEM in NO and the state OEM was well behind the 8-ball from the start both in terms of bringing up and mobilizing in-state and requesting federal resources.

    if you read the Stafford Act, that is how the legislation intents FEMA to operate.

    Disaster management is local, regional and state based supplemented by the feds, not the other way around.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  14. #14
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Guess what .. It's not FEMA's role to fill at "leadership void" the the state level.
    Only proving you know less about leadership or management than you do firefighting. Your only saving grace is that type of knowledge isn't capable of being measured in negative numbers.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-02-2012 at 07:02 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Only proving you know less about leadership or management than you do firefighting. Your only saving grace is that type of knowledge isn't capable of being measured in negative numbers.
    Actually, as much as it pains me, on this he is correct. The locals would scream to high heaven if FEMA came into an incident to take it over - unless it provided them a scapegoat. EMA's job is to assist - what resources can I provide to the agencies involved.

  16. #16
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Actually, as much as it pains me, on this he is correct. The locals would scream to high heaven if FEMA came into an incident to take it over - unless it provided them a scapegoat. EMA's job is to assist - what resources can I provide to the agencies involved.
    I'll counter your hypothetical with my hypothetical that any state agency that complained while FEMA was saving lives would end up bearing the brunt of the criticism.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'll counter your hypothetical with my hypothetical that any state agency that complained while FEMA was saving lives would end up bearing the brunt of the criticism.
    It's not FEMA's role to save lives. It's FEMA's role to provide requested assistance and resources to the states as requested by the states so that they, the state OEM, can direct those resources where needed to save lives. That, in terms of rescue operations, is FEMA's legislative function.

    They are basically a logistical agency working for the state OEM in whatever capacity the state decides.

    And if there are state OEM's that cannot manage disasters in thier own state's they administration of those agencies should be roundly criticized, sacked and replaced.

    Sorry, but if our parish OEM comes into our fire district and tells us how to manage our rescue and response operations in the event of a disaster, they are wrong. If the state OEM tries to tell the parish OEM how to manage resources and operations in our parish, they are out of line. And if the feds come into a state OEM and try to tell the state how to run things, they are out of line as they are exceeding their legislative authority. It really is that simple.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-02-2012 at 10:18 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  18. #18
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's not FEMA's role to save lives. It's FEMA's role to provide request assistance to the states as requested by the states so that they, the state OEM, can direct resources where needed to save lives. that, in terms of rescue operations, is FEMA's legislative function.
    Continuing to show that you are completely clueless when a USAR team is activated and what it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Sorry, but if our parish OEM comes into our fire district and tells us how to manage our rescue operations, they are wrong. if the state OEM tries to tell the parish OEM how to manage resources and operations in our parish, they are out of linbe. And if the feds come into a state OEM and try to tell the state how to run things, they are out of line as they are exceeding their legislative authority. It really is that simple.
    And you brag about this? God help the people of that parish.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Continuing to show that you are completely clueless when a USAR team is activated and what it does.

    USAR teams, at least here, are either activated by the state OEM to standby and then deployed at the request of the regional OEM when they determine that they need that resource in their region.

    Out of state USAR teams are not deployed by the feds until they are requested by the state with a request to FEMA, either to standby in place, standby at a staging point in the state or deploy to a specific location.

    Last I knew FEMA cannot send a state a USAR team just because it feels that it may be or is needed. that is the call of the state OEM.




    And you brag about this? God help the people of that parish.

    Brag about dealing with an incident with local resources if possible? Last I knew that was the function of local responders.

    The last tornado that came through here (2009) we dealt quite effectively with our part of the response by ourselves with limited assistance from 2 mutual aid departments.

    The city pretty much handled their end of tornado by themselves.

    Parish OEM provided some logistical support, but operations were very much handled at the fire department level.

    Problem?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #20
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Brag about dealing with an incident with local resources if possible? Last I knew that was the function of local responders.

    The last tornado that came through here (2009) we dealt quite effectively with our part of the response by ourselves with limited assistance from 2 mutual aid departments.

    The city pretty much handled their end of tornado by themselves.

    Parish OEM provided some logistical support, but operations were very much handled at the fire department level.

    Problem?
    Keep talking numbnuts. No one cares about your opinion or your joke for a fire dept.

    Never mind the fact that you bought into the premise of this thread based upon a story that is a complete falsehood.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-03-2012 at 03:09 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Sutphen...union/non-union built???
    By FIREMECH1 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-06-2010, 08:58 AM
  2. How does your Union do it?
    By QbenOliver in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-26-2007, 12:45 AM
  3. Union Help
    By mopanglow in forum Federal & Military Firehouse Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-13-2006, 02:07 PM
  4. who can be in the union?
    By HeavyRescueTech in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-09-2003, 11:50 AM
  5. Using non union help to build a union firehall
    By firefighthero in forum Meet and Greet
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-06-2002, 09:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts