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Thread: President Obama wins a second term, What does this mean for us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    One could easily argue that there is a major difference between funding disaster response and everyday responses. Sorry, but I'm not in the camp that says that local firefighters and cops should be paid with federal money for everyday responses. Local response is a local issue. If they can't afford all the career members they would like, make mutual aid arrangements or supplement the career staffing with volunteers.

    Funny thing is we agree on the flooding issue.

    Buildings in high-liklihood/repeat flood zones should not be rebuilt with federal money, and yes, that includes places like NO.

    I feel the same way about government assistance in repeat wildland fire areas such as southern Kalifornia unless there are mitigation and building materials and code requirements attached that will significantly reduce the threat of a repeat incident.
    No one is born as stupid as you. You worked hard to get to that level. Congratulations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    But the real consumers of entitlements are the CEO's of banks and auto companies who demanded bailouts from the taxpayer to compensate for their poor business decisions.
    That's not what Tipys said. He suggested that my desire to have lower income taxes was the same thing as a welfare mooch's desire to get everything for free.

    Is it really an entitlement to expect to make a profit on selling a good? Set aside opinions on how much defense spending we need and whether there is corruption in the bidding process.

    If I build a tank that the government said they wanted--and if I truly did not contaminate the thought process for whether the government chose to buy a tank--there is nothing wrong with me making a profit on it. If I don't, who's gonna bid on the next order of tanks?
    Last edited by EastKyFF; 11-08-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I disagree.


    Maybe you would feel differently if you once read a book with no pictures in it.
    Insults. I guess your idea of winning a discussion you can't win is to insult and belittle, sorta like our (intentionally small p) president.

    Make the program very simple. if you want an apparatus on a grant you get to choose from a standard plain jane engine, tanker, rescue or ladder. No customization. If you need a piece that bad the plain jane model will work for tyou and you'll be happy with it. If you feel that you have need for something beyond that, don't bother to apply and buy it yourself with your own money.

    I could even buy into a 10% cushion that would allow them some level of very basic customization.

    Funny thing is that plain jane pieces will work very well for the rural departments that truly need a truck given to them. Not only would this thin out the ranks and direct trucks to where they are truly needed - rural departments - but it would allow the government to buy apparatus in bulk, which would save money and allow more apparatus to be awarded.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Insults. I guess your idea of winning a discussion you can't win is to insult and belittle, sorta like our (intentionally small p) president.
    Not at all. Just helping you clarify your status so that even you can understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Make the program very simple. if you want an apparatus on a grant you get to choose from a standard plain jane engine, tanker, rescue or ladder. No customization. If you need a piece that bad the plain jane model will work for tyou and you'll be happy with it. If you feel that you have need for something beyond that, don't bother to apply and buy it yourself with your own money.
    I have an even better idea. You should go away and keep your ideas to yourself since you are clearly clueless.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I could even buy into a 10% cushion that would allow them some level of very basic customization.
    This would be relevant if anyone cared what you thought. Which in case you don't know, I'll help you out. No one cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is that plain jane pieces will work very well for the rural departments that truly need a truck given to them. Not only would this thin out the ranks and direct trucks to where they are truly needed - rural departments - but it would allow the government to buy apparatus in bulk, which would save money and allow more apparatus to be awarded.
    Even funnier is that you actually believe you are making intelligent points.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    That's not what Tipys said. He suggested that my desire to have lower income taxes was the same thing as a welfare mooch's desire to get everything for free.

    Is it really an entitlement to expect to make a profit on selling a good? Set aside opinions on how much defense spending we need and whether there is corruption in the bidding process.

    If I build a tank that the government said they wanted--and if I truly did not contaminate the thought process for whether the government chose to buy a tank--there is nothing wrong with me making a profit on it. If I don't, who's gonna bid on the next order of tanks?
    I have no problem with people making profits. I've been buying and selling real estate for over 30 years. I've made a profit the majority of the time.

    Where I have a problem is a contractor making millions off the taxpayer. Especially when I see my former public safety brethren under the fire of claims that they are overpaid because they are being paid with taxes.

    If a contractor is going to bid a on a contract I believe there should be a limit to the profits they can earn and pay themselves at taxpayer expense.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If a contractor is going to bid a on a contract I believe there should be a limit to the profits they can earn and pay themselves at taxpayer expense.
    Who decides how much profit they can make? How do you regulate that? How do you keep them from loopholing around it and still making the money? Do you really want seven more layers of bureaucratic BS and red tape when we're fighting a war?
    “I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I have no problem with people making profits. I've been buying and selling real estate for over 30 years. I've made a profit the majority of the time.

    Where I have a problem is a contractor making millions off the taxpayer. Especially when I see my former public safety brethren under the fire of claims that they are overpaid because they are being paid with taxes.

    If a contractor is going to bid a on a contract I believe there should be a limit to the profits they can earn and pay themselves at taxpayer expense.
    So you really belive that somehow the government has a right to tell a company how much money they can make?

    If the government thinks the bids are too high, reject them all and re-bid.

    The concept that somehow the government has any role in how profitable a company can be tells me that we are moving closer and closer to socialism.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So you really belive that somehow the government has a right to tell a company how much money they can make?
    When the company's entire revenue is from tax dollars, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    If the government thinks the bids are too high, reject them all and re-bid.

    The concept that somehow the government has any role in how profitable a company can be tells me that we are moving closer and closer to socialism.
    The concept that you believe a government contractor that is 100% dependent upon government contracts is free enterprise is proof positive that you are clueless about socialism or capitalism for that matter.

    Run along Bobby, this is grownup talk. Something you know nothing about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I am in Monmouth county -Monmouth beach/ union beach.
    Gotcha. They had some house movement up there....

    One of my members is a teacher in that area.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    OK a couple of points..

    I agree with both Scfire and Eastky, yes large corporations are underhandedly screwing over clients. Not the goods industry like Apple, Sears, RCA, Sony, Ford, or WalMart, (if you don't like their product don't buy it) as the financial industry. When a mortgage lender approves a loan and fully knows that the loan is bad but they have figured out a way to make a buck on it, that is a form of fraud, IMO. when a financial institution invests OUR/YOUR money in a fund that is knowingly going to fail but knows how THEY can make a buck of it, that is fraud, IMO. And I will say the energy industry is screwing us over majorly. Because it's funny before deregulation the energy companies made money and we had more reliable service. Now with deregulation they say they are broke, need continual increases to repair problems, continue laying off people that could be used to fix those "problems" and forcing smaller energy companies, who were profitable before, to go out of business.

    And scfire, yes it is pretty bad here in E. KY. In fact in our entire Tri-State area is pretty bad. I would say 75% of the people on welfare, not unemployment, feel entitled to it and think of it as a career. In fact I know of two families (husband and wife, both with kids) that I have heard state that they will not work because they would lose their check and medical card. They could have actually made more money working but they are to F'in lazy. I know of one business that could not open for the hours they wanted because they could not find enough people to work.

    Both your points are correct and both need fixed.

    As for LA's idea on a rubber stamp fire engine. Nice thought but it will not work. Number one trying to get Congress to agree on a Fire Engine design is BS. The specification alone would probably run the price of an engine through the clouds. For example, WV was given $145 million in stimulus money, but the specifications and guidelines on how to use the money are so outrageous that they can not simply afford to spend that money. It costs too much for obligations and clerical cost to continue to spend it. If not spent by March it is given back. Which I believe will be given back. The AFG program is probably one of the best programs because it does not have a specification book on what the item should meet, other than being NFPA compliant in most cases and takes an industry average on the cost of the item(s).

    Also, you can not rubber stamp a fire engine. A fire engine that we use here may not be suitable or even usable say for example in rural LA. We need compact nimble apparatus here. I spent much time in Shreveport and their apparatus seemed a lot larger than the ones we use around here. Also IMO we should have extended bumpers in our area for one simple reason, we have deer and lots of them. I have hit a few before going down a rural rode (we do not have wide open rural roads here) and yes if it was not for the bumper we would have had significant damage to the engine. I do not believe NY City uses extended bumpers, or at least the engines I saw didn't have them. Plus your analogy does not seem logical because on one hand you seem to be saying less government but on the other hand you are saying let government control what is done. I think for the grants they have determined a max amount to be given for a fire engine which does not cover bells and whistles. I assume you are saying bells and whistles are things like aluminum rims, gold leaf pin striping and lettering, A/C, refrigerators and chrome bells, not deck guns, scene lights and appropriate lights and sirens? BTW, we were awarded a tanker/tender years ago, it was very basic what we ordered but the manufacturer kind of flubbed and put aluminum rims and a backup camera on it but we didn't pay for it becaue we didn't ask for it in our specs.

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    "No one is born as stupid as you. You worked hard to get to that level. Congratulations."

    Here's our first problem, especially with the "don't be helping folks with MY money" crowd. You disagree with me, you're: fill in your favorite insult. Sickening.

    It's also so funny to hear the whining about socialism, when FD's, even local ones, are about as close to socialism as you can get. If you're having ideological heartburn about that, then put up and quit and go to work for a private co. - maybe a private fire co., and run with 1-2 people on a truck co, 'cuz of all those expensive salaries for nothing but washing your car. Run FD's like a private business.

    Yes, there are plenty of abusers, and like the repeated (over and over and over and over) Rushbo story of the woman with three kids, smoking cigs, in her pajamas, driving a brand new SUV, using food stamps - here's a little parallel: "I drive by the firehouse and those slackers are washing their cars, lifting weights, watching TV, eating all on MY dime! They're a bunch of slackers and we don't need them." Generalizations, based on little information and ignorance, and painting a negative picture of many good people, including some of the folks that really only want to lift weights and don't want to protect the public - lumping the slackers/losers in with the folks that are the heart of our industry.

    So: welfare abusers - everyone is in a gimme' society, so cut everyone off because it's my hard-earned money; followed by: those slackers just wash their car and chase chicks, they don't want to work - fire them all, and just put one or two guys in pickups to go to fires, what have they ever done for me?. Listen to Fox, Rush, Glenn, Sean - it seems the 50+% of population, that voted for Obama, want and expect a handout, and that's why they voted that way.

    The real insanity is that some people actually listen to those idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    My bad. The source request was in response to your post I quoted. The rest was in response to other stuff going on in the thread.
    The source was Mitt Romney himself, but I'm not sure if he would be considered "fact based".

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I feel the same way about government assistance in repeat wildland fire areas such as southern Kalifornia unless there are mitigation and building materials and code requirements attached that will significantly reduce the threat of a repeat incident.
    I hear that Romney had a plan to stop the dry hot weather and lightning storms that cause 90% of the fires in California, but his consulting fee was too high. Guess we will never know.
    IAFF

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    "The only network carrying anything about Benghazi was Fox News. Hoping it could create an issue where none existed."

    REALLY??

    Americans died there, it IS an issue!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    "The only network carrying anything about Benghazi was Fox News. Hoping it could create an issue where none existed."

    REALLY??

    Americans died there, it IS an issue!
    agree 100%- tell the parents of the gentlemen killed it is not an "issue:
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    By not doing any of the things outlined by firemedic049.

    Not coming after someone is better than being on defense against someone that is attacking you.

    Which in case you haven't noticed is part of the conservative agenda.
    Obama was just going to do it the round about way by driving the country into the ground. Then nobody would be able to fund any services wether they wanted to or not. I'm pretty much disgusted by all politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Gotcha. They had some house movement up there....

    One of my members is a teacher in that area.
    Very nice people there (so far)-and STRONG work ethic
    ?

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    BTW, I don't see anything "socialist" about Emergency Services. It's a necessary service, vital to the function of any society. That's like saying the highway dept. is socialist. You can't have a toll road on every block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDV1 View Post
    "No one is born as stupid as you. You worked hard to get to that level. Congratulations."

    Here's our first problem, especially with the "don't be helping folks with MY money" crowd. You disagree with me, you're: fill in your favorite insult. Sickening.

    It's also so funny to hear the whining about socialism, when FD's, even local ones, are about as close to socialism as you can get. If you're having ideological heartburn about that, then put up and quit and go to work for a private co. - maybe a private fire co., and run with 1-2 people on a truck co, 'cuz of all those expensive salaries for nothing but washing your car. Run FD's like a private business.

    Yes, there are plenty of abusers, and like the repeated (over and over and over and over) Rushbo story of the woman with three kids, smoking cigs, in her pajamas, driving a brand new SUV, using food stamps - here's a little parallel: "I drive by the firehouse and those slackers are washing their cars, lifting weights, watching TV, eating all on MY dime! They're a bunch of slackers and we don't need them." Generalizations, based on little information and ignorance, and painting a negative picture of many good people, including some of the folks that really only want to lift weights and don't want to protect the public - lumping the slackers/losers in with the folks that are the heart of our industry.

    So: welfare abusers - everyone is in a gimme' society, so cut everyone off because it's my hard-earned money; followed by: those slackers just wash their car and chase chicks, they don't want to work - fire them all, and just put one or two guys in pickups to go to fires, what have they ever done for me?. Listen to Fox, Rush, Glenn, Sean - it seems the 50+% of population, that voted for Obama, want and expect a handout, and that's why they voted that way.

    The real insanity is that some people actually listen to those idiots.
    O.K. thats nice. NOW seems like a good time for you to sit down with your physician and review your prescriptions.

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    Here's what I'm talking about! Rw tools with no ideas, just "witty" retorts. Hopeless.

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    Not sure, but you seem to get the point, sort of - "redistribution" described as some communist/socialist plot. Fire/highway services - we all.put in money (taxes), it's redistributed in a fashion that benefits all of us, no matter who needs it - the general public. Yes, you can't privatize roads, they are paid for, and belong to, all of us. So, you actually agree with me. "You" didn't build it, we all did who paid taxes and came before you. It's provided so we can have protection, ease of transportation, freedom to move around and run and build our businesses and make money, go to school, respond to fires.
    Last edited by MikeDV1; 11-09-2012 at 01:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    BTW, I don't see anything "socialist" about Emergency Services. It's a necessary service, vital to the function of any society. That's like saying the highway dept. is socialist. You can't have a toll road on every block.
    They are socialist in the context of how contemporary conservatives are now defining socialism. You may believe it necessary. However, there is a faction in the conservative movement that believes all taxation is taken through force against their will and given to others. In this case, "others" refers to those individuals who are paid via forcible taxation to provide the service you believe is necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    "The only network carrying anything about Benghazi was Fox News. Hoping it could create an issue where none existed."

    REALLY??

    Americans died there, it IS an issue!
    We don't know all the facts yet. However, conservatives are trying to create an issue claiming there are grounds for impeachment. I sort of hope they push this issue to that level. That should be fun to watch.

    On another note, I actually enjoy watching Fox News. The whinefest of victimhood has been pretty hysterical. I know there are five stages of grief. I'm just not sure which one is in play.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Obama was just going to do it the round about way by driving the country into the ground. Then nobody would be able to fund any services wether they wanted to or not. I'm pretty much disgusted by all politicians.
    Funny, liberals said the same thing during the Bush years. Somehow the nation managed. BTW, I'm old enough to remember the election between Eisenhower and Stevenson. The rhetoric being directed by both sides at each other is nothing new. My biggest amusement with conservatives is how they yearn for an America (from the 50's) that never really existed.
    Last edited by scfire86; 11-09-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post

    We don't know all the facts yet.

    What other facts do you need? Our people were attacked and had insufficient protection. Americans died. Enough said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    What other facts do you need? Our people were attacked and had insufficient protection. Americans died. Enough said.
    Like I said. We don't know all the facts yet.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Like I said. We don't know all the facts yet.
    While I won't wade in to the other politics of the thread...we have a firefighter here who worked embassy security for several years when he was in the Marines. I paid attention to what he had to say because he was an ardent Romney supporter. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders at this supposed Libya conspiracy. He says there are many embassies out there that have virtually no protection whatsoever. It's far more dangerous work than most people realize. Some countries will not allow the U.S. to have a military detachment for security. So it's either 1. Have an embassy presence and we'll help you find a local private firm you can hire, or 2. Don't have an embassy here. The government typically picks number 1, and has done so through dozens of years of both Republican and Democratic presidents. Our guy goes on to note that if anybody is going to lose their job it will be Clinton. If embassy staff had been asking for weeks and months for beefed up military protection (and the Libyan government was willing to allow it), and it wasn't provided, that will be on her. He said people are grasping at straws if they think they can take the president down over this. It will never get that high on the food chain.
    Last edited by Chief_Roy; 11-09-2012 at 05:43 PM.

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