President Obama wins a second term, What does this mean for us?

[Tipys]

.Talking about entitlement programs,

You know whats funny. I think it is a rare few that see them as something they are entitled to. Yes people abuse the systems but that is always going to be a problem. The start of trying to make the quick buck over hard work is where most of that started IMO. But there are also tons of hard working people having a hard time that need those programs to assist them to get back on there feet.

Also you talk about entitlement. How is wanting or expecting tax cuts because you make over X amount or fall between X amount and Y amount not entitlement issue?

My point being you right now feel you are entitled to something while accusing others of having entitlement issues. Weither you admit it or not you feel entitled to something.

[LaFireEducator]

For the same reason I have to pay for subsidies to private "for profit" oil and gas companies.

Most of those "subsidies" are actually accounting functions as compared to actual dollars.

You make the assumption all local communities can afford apparatus. You assume a lot of things. Like the fact that your opinions are intelligent or informed. The rest of us stopped thinking that about you long ago. Especially as it relates to the fire service.

I have served in and around some departments with limited funds. Giving away cash for them to buy apparatus with federal dollars is not the answer.

Maybe I would feel differently if the program provided a standard plain Jane truck for rural operations as compared to funding bells and whistle for surburban and semi-urban departments that could likely fund the apparatus without assistance.

[scfire86]

I have served in and around some departments with limited funds. Giving away cash for them to buy apparatus with federal dollars is not the answer.

I disagree.

Maybe I would feel differently if the program provided a standard plain Jane truck for rural operations as compared to funding bells and whistle for surburban and semi-urban departments that could likely fund the apparatus without assistance.

Maybe you would feel differently if you once read a book with no pictures in it.

[FyredUp]

Please explain to me why i should be funding an engine company in detroit or Camden with my federal tax dollors? Why should I be funding cops in Buffalo, or anywhere else?

Please explain to me why my federal tax dollars should be building a levee to keep a city built under water from flooding? Please explain to me why my federal tax dollars should have been spent in emergency response to that flooding from Katrina? Please explain to me why my federal tax dollars were and are being spent to rebuild the sunken city? It's always funny listening to people whine and complain about how federal dollars are being spent until they need the money at their doorstep.

I have to agree with scfire86 please stop posting and go away you are becoming a bigger embarassment every day with your no brainer posts.

If you beleive that the federal government actuaklly should have a role in funding everyday staffing a community, so be it. I disagree. local staffing is just that, and it should be funded 100% locally.

If you believe they shouldn't, justify why MY tax dollars should be spent rebuilding a city that almost 100% will be flooded and destroyed again in the future.

And yes, I also don't believe that we should be buying fire and police apparatus and equipment for local departments. Again .. local needs .. local funding.

And I don't believe for one second a single penny of my tax dollars should be spent rebuilding a city built essentially underwater. Here in Wisconsin 2 villages were completely MOVED out of areas that flooded over and over. Yet here we are spending tax payer dollars on one city, in one state, that WILL get hit again and destroyed again. Maybe not tomorrow, or next year, but it will happen, and YOU know it.

And you continue to be a fool.

Give me a check off box on my tax form that allows me to opt out of spending my tax dollars on Louisiana and I will agree with you. Until then this is just another example of your unbelievable hypocrisy at work.

I wish you would go away but you won't. You will try to counter this with some absolute BS and yet it will only prove what a hypocrite you are.

[EastKyFF]

You know whats funny. I think it is a rare few that see them as something they are entitled to. Yes people abuse the systems but that is always going to be a problem. The start of trying to make the quick buck over hard work is where most of that started IMO. But there are also tons of hard working people having a hard time that need those programs to assist them to get back on there feet.

Also you talk about entitlement. How is wanting or expecting tax cuts because you make over X amount or fall between X amount and Y amount not entitlement issue?

My point being you right now feel you are entitled to something while accusing others of having entitlement issues. Weither you admit it or not you feel entitled to something.

Your argument makes positively no sense. I'll give you this: We do need welfare, food stamps, etc., because there are some people who legitimately deserve them while they try to improve themselves.

But from there you are in the crapper. You are saying that my desire to take home as much pay as possible from MY job is the same sense of entitlement as some sleazebag has for wanting money to provide groceries, health care, utilities, housing, child care, and everything else, despite making absolutely no effort to get a job?

Little friend, spend some quality time in eastern Kentucky and you will see exactly what the entitlement mentality has done to a bunch of programs that should be good for America but are instead devouring our financial resources at an alarming and disgusting rate.

[FireMedic049]

What impact is Obama going to have on the Fire Service in the next 4 years? Any guesses?

I think it's unlikely that there will be some new major initiative to benefit the fire service during that time period. I think it's more likely that we'll see a continuation of programs in place now and maybe some increases in the annual allotments.

[FireMedic049]

I would like to see a fact based source to back that up.

Comparing government services to welfare programs that have gone rampant is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I pay for police and fire, I reap the benefits of those services when I need them.

Which one of you have reaped the benefits from the career welfare folks talking on their Obama phones eating steaks they paid for with EBT cards?

Who are you talking too? Your statements and question don't seem to coincide with the post you quoted.

[GTRider245]

Who are you talking too? Your statements and question don't seem to coincide with the post you quoted.

My bad. The source request was in response to your post I quoted. The rest was in response to other stuff going on in the thread.

[LaFireEducator]

I wish you would go away but you won't. You will try to counter this with some absolute BS and yet it will only prove what a hypocrite you are.

One could easily argue that there is a major difference between funding disaster response and everyday responses. Sorry, but I'm not in the camp that says that local firefighters and cops should be paid with federal money for everyday responses. Local response is a local issue. If they can't afford all the career members they would like, make mutual aid arrangements or supplement the career staffing with volunteers.

Funny thing is we agree on the flooding issue.

Buildings in high-liklihood/repeat flood zones should not be rebuilt with federal money, and yes, that includes places like NO.

I feel the same way about government assistance in repeat wildland fire areas such as southern Kalifornia unless there are mitigation and building materials and code requirements attached that will significantly reduce the threat of a repeat incident.

[scfire86]

Little friend, spend some quality time in eastern Kentucky and you will see exactly what the entitlement mentality has done to a bunch of programs that should be good for America but are instead devouring our financial resources at an alarming and disgusting rate.

Little buddy. Maybe things are worse in eastern Kentucky than other places. But the real consumers of entitlements are the CEO's of banks and auto companies who demanded bailouts from the taxpayer to compensate for their poor business decisions. Threatening to take the US and world economies down with them. Or the defense contractor who earns millions off of taxpayer funded contracts in the belief that they are in private enterprise.

I know there are people who game the system, but believing the entitlement mindset is the sole province of the underclasses of our society is woefully ignorant or naive.

[scfire86]

One could easily argue that there is a major difference between funding disaster response and everyday responses. Sorry, but I'm not in the camp that says that local firefighters and cops should be paid with federal money for everyday responses. Local response is a local issue. If they can't afford all the career members they would like, make mutual aid arrangements or supplement the career staffing with volunteers.

Funny thing is we agree on the flooding issue.

Buildings in high-liklihood/repeat flood zones should not be rebuilt with federal money, and yes, that includes places like NO.

I feel the same way about government assistance in repeat wildland fire areas such as southern Kalifornia unless there are mitigation and building materials and code requirements attached that will significantly reduce the threat of a repeat incident.

No one is born as stupid as you. You worked hard to get to that level. Congratulations.

[EastKyFF]

But the real consumers of entitlements are the CEO's of banks and auto companies who demanded bailouts from the taxpayer to compensate for their poor business decisions.

That's not what Tipys said. He suggested that my desire to have lower income taxes was the same thing as a welfare mooch's desire to get everything for free.

Is it really an entitlement to expect to make a profit on selling a good? Set aside opinions on how much defense spending we need and whether there is corruption in the bidding process.

If I build a tank that the government said they wanted--and if I truly did not contaminate the thought process for whether the government chose to buy a tank--there is nothing wrong with me making a profit on it. If I don't, who's gonna bid on the next order of tanks?

[LaFireEducator]

I disagree.


Maybe you would feel differently if you once read a book with no pictures in it.

Insults. I guess your idea of winning a discussion you can't win is to insult and belittle, sorta like our (intentionally small p) president.

Make the program very simple. if you want an apparatus on a grant you get to choose from a standard plain jane engine, tanker, rescue or ladder. No customization. If you need a piece that bad the plain jane model will work for tyou and you'll be happy with it. If you feel that you have need for something beyond that, don't bother to apply and buy it yourself with your own money.

I could even buy into a 10% cushion that would allow them some level of very basic customization.

Funny thing is that plain jane pieces will work very well for the rural departments that truly need a truck given to them. Not only would this thin out the ranks and direct trucks to where they are truly needed - rural departments - but it would allow the government to buy apparatus in bulk, which would save money and allow more apparatus to be awarded.

[scfire86]

Insults. I guess your idea of winning a discussion you can't win is to insult and belittle, sorta like our (intentionally small p) president.

Not at all. Just helping you clarify your status so that even you can understand it.

Make the program very simple. if you want an apparatus on a grant you get to choose from a standard plain jane engine, tanker, rescue or ladder. No customization. If you need a piece that bad the plain jane model will work for tyou and you'll be happy with it. If you feel that you have need for something beyond that, don't bother to apply and buy it yourself with your own money.

I have an even better idea. You should go away and keep your ideas to yourself since you are clearly clueless.

I could even buy into a 10% cushion that would allow them some level of very basic customization.

This would be relevant if anyone cared what you thought. Which in case you don't know, I'll help you out. No one cares.

Funny thing is that plain jane pieces will work very well for the rural departments that truly need a truck given to them. Not only would this thin out the ranks and direct trucks to where they are truly needed - rural departments - but it would allow the government to buy apparatus in bulk, which would save money and allow more apparatus to be awarded.

Even funnier is that you actually believe you are making intelligent points.

[scfire86]

That's not what Tipys said. He suggested that my desire to have lower income taxes was the same thing as a welfare mooch's desire to get everything for free.

Is it really an entitlement to expect to make a profit on selling a good? Set aside opinions on how much defense spending we need and whether there is corruption in the bidding process.

If I build a tank that the government said they wanted--and if I truly did not contaminate the thought process for whether the government chose to buy a tank--there is nothing wrong with me making a profit on it. If I don't, who's gonna bid on the next order of tanks?

I have no problem with people making profits. I've been buying and selling real estate for over 30 years. I've made a profit the majority of the time.

Where I have a problem is a contractor making millions off the taxpayer. Especially when I see my former public safety brethren under the fire of claims that they are overpaid because they are being paid with taxes.

If a contractor is going to bid a on a contract I believe there should be a limit to the profits they can earn and pay themselves at taxpayer expense.

[EastKyFF]

If a contractor is going to bid a on a contract I believe there should be a limit to the profits they can earn and pay themselves at taxpayer expense.

Who decides how much profit they can make? How do you regulate that? How do you keep them from loopholing around it and still making the money? Do you really want seven more layers of bureaucratic BS and red tape when we're fighting a war?

[LaFireEducator]

I have no problem with people making profits. I've been buying and selling real estate for over 30 years. I've made a profit the majority of the time.

Where I have a problem is a contractor making millions off the taxpayer. Especially when I see my former public safety brethren under the fire of claims that they are overpaid because they are being paid with taxes.

If a contractor is going to bid a on a contract I believe there should be a limit to the profits they can earn and pay themselves at taxpayer expense.

So you really belive that somehow the government has a right to tell a company how much money they can make?

If the government thinks the bids are too high, reject them all and re-bid.

The concept that somehow the government has any role in how profitable a company can be tells me that we are moving closer and closer to socialism.

[scfire86]

So you really belive that somehow the government has a right to tell a company how much money they can make?

When the company's entire revenue is from tax dollars, yes.

If the government thinks the bids are too high, reject them all and re-bid.

The concept that somehow the government has any role in how profitable a company can be tells me that we are moving closer and closer to socialism.

The concept that you believe a government contractor that is 100% dependent upon government contracts is free enterprise is proof positive that you are clueless about socialism or capitalism for that matter.

Run along Bobby, this is grownup talk. Something you know nothing about.

[Bones42]

I am in Monmouth county -Monmouth beach/ union beach.

Gotcha. They had some house movement up there....

One of my members is a teacher in that area.

[BSFD9302]

OK a couple of points..

I agree with both Scfire and Eastky, yes large corporations are underhandedly screwing over clients. Not the goods industry like Apple, Sears, RCA, Sony, Ford, or WalMart, (if you don't like their product don't buy it) as the financial industry. When a mortgage lender approves a loan and fully knows that the loan is bad but they have figured out a way to make a buck on it, that is a form of fraud, IMO. when a financial institution invests OUR/YOUR money in a fund that is knowingly going to fail but knows how THEY can make a buck of it, that is fraud, IMO. And I will say the energy industry is screwing us over majorly. Because it's funny before deregulation the energy companies made money and we had more reliable service. Now with deregulation they say they are broke, need continual increases to repair problems, continue laying off people that could be used to fix those "problems" and forcing smaller energy companies, who were profitable before, to go out of business.

And scfire, yes it is pretty bad here in E. KY. In fact in our entire Tri-State area is pretty bad. I would say 75% of the people on welfare, not unemployment, feel entitled to it and think of it as a career. In fact I know of two families (husband and wife, both with kids) that I have heard state that they will not work because they would lose their check and medical card. They could have actually made more money working but they are to F'in lazy. I know of one business that could not open for the hours they wanted because they could not find enough people to work.

Both your points are correct and both need fixed.

As for LA's idea on a rubber stamp fire engine. Nice thought but it will not work. Number one trying to get Congress to agree on a Fire Engine design is BS. The specification alone would probably run the price of an engine through the clouds. For example, WV was given $145 million in stimulus money, but the specifications and guidelines on how to use the money are so outrageous that they can not simply afford to spend that money. It costs too much for obligations and clerical cost to continue to spend it. If not spent by March it is given back. Which I believe will be given back. The AFG program is probably one of the best programs because it does not have a specification book on what the item should meet, other than being NFPA compliant in most cases and takes an industry average on the cost of the item(s).

Also, you can not rubber stamp a fire engine. A fire engine that we use here may not be suitable or even usable say for example in rural LA. We need compact nimble apparatus here. I spent much time in Shreveport and their apparatus seemed a lot larger than the ones we use around here. Also IMO we should have extended bumpers in our area for one simple reason, we have deer and lots of them. I have hit a few before going down a rural rode (we do not have wide open rural roads here) and yes if it was not for the bumper we would have had significant damage to the engine. I do not believe NY City uses extended bumpers, or at least the engines I saw didn't have them. Plus your analogy does not seem logical because on one hand you seem to be saying less government but on the other hand you are saying let government control what is done. I think for the grants they have determined a max amount to be given for a fire engine which does not cover bells and whistles. I assume you are saying bells and whistles are things like aluminum rims, gold leaf pin striping and lettering, A/C, refrigerators and chrome bells, not deck guns, scene lights and appropriate lights and sirens? BTW, we were awarded a tanker/tender years ago, it was very basic what we ordered but the manufacturer kind of flubbed and put aluminum rims and a backup camera on it but we didn't pay for it becaue we didn't ask for it in our specs.