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Thread: President Obama wins a second term, What does this mean for us?

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    Another thing to consider about the Bengahzi attacks: Revenge for the attack must be brought upon the proper perpetrator. When Reagan sent a few F-111 Aardvarks to Libya (Operation El Dorado Canyon was the name of the military operation President Ronald Reagan ordered against Libya on April 15, 1986, in retaliation for a terrorist bombing at a Berlin, Germany, discotheque that April 5), it was done in an age when the spomsors of terrorism were more clearly defined.

    Al Qaeda is a organization that operates in the shadows. I am sure that revenge for Bengahzi will occur, but we have to nail the right perps. In case some of you forgot, it took over 10 years to get Bin Laden. Who knows is revenge has already been taken, the SEALS, Marine Recon and Delta Force run some of the blackest of black ops, and those opration can never and will never be known to John and Jane Q. Public. Thosewho participated hae commendations and medals that can never be shown or talked about.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 11-09-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief_Roy View Post
    While I won't wade in to the other politics of the thread...we have a firefighter here who worked embassy security for several years when he was in the Marines. I paid attention to what he had to say because he was an ardent Romney supporter. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders at this supposed Libya conspiracy. He says there are many embassies out there that have virtually no protection whatsoever. It's far more dangerous work than most people realize. Some countries will not allow the U.S. to have a military detachment for security. So it's either 1. Have an embassy presence and we'll help you find a local private firm you can hire, or 2. Don't have an embassy here. The government typically picks number 1, and has done so through dozens of years of both Republican and Democratic presidents. Our guy goes on to note that if anybody is going to lose their job it will be Clinton. If embassy staff had been asking for weeks and months for beefed up military protection (and the Libyan government was willing to allow it), and it wasn't provided, that will be on her. He said people are grasping at straws if they think they can take the president down over this. It will never get that high on the food chain.
    I have no doubt all of what this individual says is absolutely true.

    Complicating this whole saga is the resignation of CIA Director Gen. Petraeus the week before he was supposed to testify. The conspiracy wackos are already in overdrive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Another thing to consider about the Bengahzi attacks: Revenge for the attack must be brought upon the proper perpetrator. When Reagan sent a few F-111 Aardvarks to Libya (Operation El Dorado Canyon was the name of the military operation President Ronald Reagan ordered against Libya on April 15, 1986, in retaliation for a terrorist bombing at a Berlin, Germany, discotheque that April 5), it was done in an age when the spomsors of terrorism were more clearly defined.

    Al Qaeda is a organization that operates in the shadows. I am sure that revenge for Bengahzi will occur, but we have to nail the right perps. In case some of you forgot, it took over 10 years to get Bin Laden. Who knows is revenge has already been taken, the SEALS, Marine Recon and Delta Force run some of the blackest of black ops, and those opration can never and will never be known to John and Jane Q. Public. Thosewho participated hae commendations and medals that can never be shown or talked about.
    Thank you so much.. Alot of people want bombs and explosions on CNN..war isn't like that any more and hopefully never will. It's all about small groups of highly trained men doing missions no one will ever know about.. Unmanned aircraft, the battle ground is much more asymmetric now. Maybe some of the nuke em mentality will stop around here.

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    Conventional needs are still present. I will bet my 18 years in the Corps on it. The direction BHO mentioned is NOT supported by all the services. Many Marine and Army leaders know we still need standard grunts with a bayonet that will take and hold ground. Small seal teams and ates can not do that...at all.

    Next....I find it very interesting that Petreus has resigned....very interesting timing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Conventional needs are still present. I will bet my 18 years in the Corps on it. The direction BHO mentioned is NOT supported by all the services. Many Marine and Army leaders know we still need standard grunts with a bayonet that will take and hold ground. Small seal teams and ates can not do that...at all.

    Next....I find it very interesting that Petreus has resigned....very interesting timing.
    Awww....dude you have better have a current rabies shot, you gonna have scfire86 gnawing on your leg for the Petreus thing by morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    BTW, I don't see anything "socialist" about Emergency Services. It's a necessary service, vital to the function of any society. That's like saying the highway dept. is socialist. You can't have a toll road on every block.
    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...q_v=zd26871797

    I haven't finished reading the article yet, nor do I have an opinion on it because I haven't yet finished, however the author compares free-market vs. socialism as it relates to the fire service.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...q_v=zd26871797

    I haven't finished reading the article yet, nor do I have an opinion on it because I haven't yet finished, however the author compares free-market vs. socialism as it relates to the fire service.
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue_1 View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.
    Pretty simple to understand, isn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Awww....dude you have better have a current rabies shot, you gonna have scfire86 gnawing on your leg for the Petreus thing by morning.
    Meh, scfire and I go way back, we already fought our battles and now mutually understand each other.....Its more like fire house kitchen zingers now. All tounge in cheek.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue_1 View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.
    That's all well and good. But there are factions of the conservative movement that consider all taxation to be immoral. As an extension, they consider those that benefit from that act to be committing theft of their freedom. One of the newer mantras stated by conservatives is that the percentage of one's freedom is the level of taxation. So for example if you effective tax rate is 44%, you should only consider yourself to be 56% free. Such is the lunacy that now grips the conservative movement as it relates to the functions of government.

    Lastly, I would like any of the conservatives on this board to show us what part of the GOP platform supported them as public servants. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but in CA, conservatives are blaming practically all the ills of the state and nation on public employee pension costs and the (perceived) lavish lifestyles of public employees. Specifically police and firefighters.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Conventional needs are still present. I will bet my 18 years in the Corps on it. The direction BHO mentioned is NOT supported by all the services. Many Marine and Army leaders know we still need standard grunts with a bayonet that will take and hold ground. Small seal teams and ates can not do that...at all.

    Next....I find it very interesting that Petreus has resigned....very interesting timing.
    I think he's in a cheating scandal.. Apparently some woman was interviewing him and they had an affair? The infantry face book page made mention of it so I'd take it with a grain of salt..

    I agree with you.. I would never do away with conventional units, dick Cheney was a proponent of the lighter faster army and the Stryker vehicle.. We were in baqubah and getting creamed.. Lost 10 tanks out of 14 in 15 monthes from ieds.. Anyway, here come these Stryker units.. They roll out and hit the 1000 pounds of HME meant for a tank and lights out..

    There's always a need for conventional means but honestly, as far as the war in terror goes..no sense in occupying a country and causing needless death when you can send in a small unit at night, do the job and leave before anyone knows..


    I'm not a marine but semper fi.. And happy bday to the corps. Enjoy your Veterans Day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I'm not a marine but semper fi.. And happy bday to the corps. Enjoy your Veterans Day.
    Neither was I. But Semper Fi to you Vinnie. Are you going to any parties? Will you be old enough to get the first piece of cake? We know you are definitely not getting the second.
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    With the Marine Corps Lge, I am the youngest! The oldest is an Iwo Jima Marine....every year the stories get better...what was a bar fight turns into a Banzai Charge at the tenru river....I get a kick out of those old salts though.

    If I go to my old rifle companies ball, I am second to oldest...and the youngest was born, in either 93 or 94.....ouch...
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    With the Marine Corps Lge, I am the youngest! The oldest is an Iwo Jima Marine....every year the stories get better...what was a bar fight turns into a Banzai Charge at the tenru river....I get a kick out of those old salts though.

    If I go to my old rifle companies ball, I am second to oldest...and the youngest was born, in either 93 or 94.....ouch...
    I'm sure all Marines have seen the movie Battle Cry made in the 50's. My favorite scene is when they have shipped out to the staging areas in New Zealand. One of the Marines walks into a bar with a chest full of ribbons. Not having been anywhere near a combat theater yet. So he's dazzling the civilian old drunks at the bar with his tales of derringdo and singlehandedly fighting off the Japanese and one of the old drunks asks, what happened next? And he yells, "I GOT KILLED!!!"

    Maybe you can buy a couple of these and start handing them out to the old timers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I would like to see a fact based source to back that up.

    Comparing government services to welfare programs that have gone rampant is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I pay for police and fire, I reap the benefits of those services when I need them.

    Which one of you have reaped the benefits from the career welfare folks talking on their Obama phones eating steaks they paid for with EBT cards?
    "He says we need more fireman, more policeman, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin?" - Mitt Romney.

    BTW, do you happen to know who started the free phone program (it started with land lines), that is now referred to as "Obama phones"? Ronald Reagan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Lastly, I would like any of the conservatives on this board to show us what part of the GOP platform supported them as public servants. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but in CA, conservatives are blaming practically all the ills of the state and nation on public employee pension costs and the (perceived) lavish lifestyles of public employees. Specifically police and firefighters.
    It's an amazing phenomenon, isn't it? I think somebody will end up using it as a PhD thesis at some point. I've known a handful of firefighters who were militant Romney supporters. At the same time, they were decrying the constant attacks on public safety workers and collective bargaining, such as that has occurred in Wisconsin. Wait a second, I'd tell them, that doesn't work. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're truly a union hater who is ****ed that you were forced to join the union, I can sort of get that. But if you're self-described pro-union, you can't support somebody like Romney and Ryan who wanted to take away union rights, not unless you're very, very, confused.

    Okay, I swore I wouldn't get in to that part of the thread, so now I'll go away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue_1 View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.
    Righties still consider it "socialism" because they have absolutely no problem privatizing everything from water systems and education, to prisons and emergency services. Anything to make a buck. Of course, the ultimate end of this approach is one fire department for the wealthy folk, and another for the rest of us. Your kids trapped in a fire? Had to choose between fire protection and milk for the kids this month? Tough crap; they should've been lucky enough to have been born a Romney Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...q_v=zd26871797

    I haven't finished reading the article yet, nor do I have an opinion on it because I haven't yet finished, however the author compares free-market vs. socialism as it relates to the fire service.
    Interesting article, but I still don't see any correlation to socialism in the fire service. If there was, all dept's would be basically the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Interesting article, but I still don't see any correlation to socialism in the fire service. If there was, all dept's would be basically the same.
    Only if one believes socialism can only be applied in a singular form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Interesting article, but I still don't see any correlation to socialism in the fire service. If there was, all dept's would be basically the same.
    Socialism does not mean identical, socialism means government run, usually in an economic sense.

    It's not a dirty word, it's an economic theory, like capitalism or mercantilism.

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    i finally figured out a solution to our problem. 2016 im voting sparky the fire dog for president.

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