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Thread: President Obama wins a second term, What does this mean for us?

  1. #81
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    BTW, I don't see anything "socialist" about Emergency Services. It's a necessary service, vital to the function of any society. That's like saying the highway dept. is socialist. You can't have a toll road on every block.
    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...q_v=zd26871797

    I haven't finished reading the article yet, nor do I have an opinion on it because I haven't yet finished, however the author compares free-market vs. socialism as it relates to the fire service.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse


  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...q_v=zd26871797

    I haven't finished reading the article yet, nor do I have an opinion on it because I haven't yet finished, however the author compares free-market vs. socialism as it relates to the fire service.
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.

  3. #83
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue_1 View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.
    Pretty simple to understand, isn't it?
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  4. #84
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Awww....dude you have better have a current rabies shot, you gonna have scfire86 gnawing on your leg for the Petreus thing by morning.
    Meh, scfire and I go way back, we already fought our battles and now mutually understand each other.....Its more like fire house kitchen zingers now. All tounge in cheek.
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  5. #85
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue_1 View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.
    That's all well and good. But there are factions of the conservative movement that consider all taxation to be immoral. As an extension, they consider those that benefit from that act to be committing theft of their freedom. One of the newer mantras stated by conservatives is that the percentage of one's freedom is the level of taxation. So for example if you effective tax rate is 44%, you should only consider yourself to be 56% free. Such is the lunacy that now grips the conservative movement as it relates to the functions of government.

    Lastly, I would like any of the conservatives on this board to show us what part of the GOP platform supported them as public servants. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but in CA, conservatives are blaming practically all the ills of the state and nation on public employee pension costs and the (perceived) lavish lifestyles of public employees. Specifically police and firefighters.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    Conventional needs are still present. I will bet my 18 years in the Corps on it. The direction BHO mentioned is NOT supported by all the services. Many Marine and Army leaders know we still need standard grunts with a bayonet that will take and hold ground. Small seal teams and ates can not do that...at all.

    Next....I find it very interesting that Petreus has resigned....very interesting timing.
    I think he's in a cheating scandal.. Apparently some woman was interviewing him and they had an affair? The infantry face book page made mention of it so I'd take it with a grain of salt..

    I agree with you.. I would never do away with conventional units, dick Cheney was a proponent of the lighter faster army and the Stryker vehicle.. We were in baqubah and getting creamed.. Lost 10 tanks out of 14 in 15 monthes from ieds.. Anyway, here come these Stryker units.. They roll out and hit the 1000 pounds of HME meant for a tank and lights out..

    There's always a need for conventional means but honestly, as far as the war in terror goes..no sense in occupying a country and causing needless death when you can send in a small unit at night, do the job and leave before anyone knows..


    I'm not a marine but semper fi.. And happy bday to the corps. Enjoy your Veterans Day.

  7. #87
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I'm not a marine but semper fi.. And happy bday to the corps. Enjoy your Veterans Day.
    Neither was I. But Semper Fi to you Vinnie. Are you going to any parties? Will you be old enough to get the first piece of cake? We know you are definitely not getting the second.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #88
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    With the Marine Corps Lge, I am the youngest! The oldest is an Iwo Jima Marine....every year the stories get better...what was a bar fight turns into a Banzai Charge at the tenru river....I get a kick out of those old salts though.

    If I go to my old rifle companies ball, I am second to oldest...and the youngest was born, in either 93 or 94.....ouch...
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  9. #89
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    With the Marine Corps Lge, I am the youngest! The oldest is an Iwo Jima Marine....every year the stories get better...what was a bar fight turns into a Banzai Charge at the tenru river....I get a kick out of those old salts though.

    If I go to my old rifle companies ball, I am second to oldest...and the youngest was born, in either 93 or 94.....ouch...
    I'm sure all Marines have seen the movie Battle Cry made in the 50's. My favorite scene is when they have shipped out to the staging areas in New Zealand. One of the Marines walks into a bar with a chest full of ribbons. Not having been anywhere near a combat theater yet. So he's dazzling the civilian old drunks at the bar with his tales of derringdo and singlehandedly fighting off the Japanese and one of the old drunks asks, what happened next? And he yells, "I GOT KILLED!!!"

    Maybe you can buy a couple of these and start handing them out to the old timers.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I would like to see a fact based source to back that up.

    Comparing government services to welfare programs that have gone rampant is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I pay for police and fire, I reap the benefits of those services when I need them.

    Which one of you have reaped the benefits from the career welfare folks talking on their Obama phones eating steaks they paid for with EBT cards?
    "He says we need more fireman, more policeman, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin?" - Mitt Romney.

    BTW, do you happen to know who started the free phone program (it started with land lines), that is now referred to as "Obama phones"? Ronald Reagan.

  11. #91
    MembersZone Subscriber Chief_Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Lastly, I would like any of the conservatives on this board to show us what part of the GOP platform supported them as public servants. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but in CA, conservatives are blaming practically all the ills of the state and nation on public employee pension costs and the (perceived) lavish lifestyles of public employees. Specifically police and firefighters.
    It's an amazing phenomenon, isn't it? I think somebody will end up using it as a PhD thesis at some point. I've known a handful of firefighters who were militant Romney supporters. At the same time, they were decrying the constant attacks on public safety workers and collective bargaining, such as that has occurred in Wisconsin. Wait a second, I'd tell them, that doesn't work. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're truly a union hater who is ****ed that you were forced to join the union, I can sort of get that. But if you're self-described pro-union, you can't support somebody like Romney and Ryan who wanted to take away union rights, not unless you're very, very, confused.

    Okay, I swore I wouldn't get in to that part of the thread, so now I'll go away.
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  12. #92
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue_1 View Post
    It's a good article, but it doesn't really pertain to government ("socialist") funding vs "free market" funding for the department. It's more of a social mobility in the fire service article.

    And technically, socialism refers to government or collective control over means of production and economics. So while bailing out the auto industry may be considered a form of socialism, the fire service (or other government service organizations) would not be, because they are not economic entities. So while the FDNY is not socialist, if the government owned and ran Pierce, that would be socialism.
    Righties still consider it "socialism" because they have absolutely no problem privatizing everything from water systems and education, to prisons and emergency services. Anything to make a buck. Of course, the ultimate end of this approach is one fire department for the wealthy folk, and another for the rest of us. Your kids trapped in a fire? Had to choose between fire protection and milk for the kids this month? Tough crap; they should've been lucky enough to have been born a Romney Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...q_v=zd26871797

    I haven't finished reading the article yet, nor do I have an opinion on it because I haven't yet finished, however the author compares free-market vs. socialism as it relates to the fire service.
    Interesting article, but I still don't see any correlation to socialism in the fire service. If there was, all dept's would be basically the same.

  14. #94
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Interesting article, but I still don't see any correlation to socialism in the fire service. If there was, all dept's would be basically the same.
    Only if one believes socialism can only be applied in a singular form.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Interesting article, but I still don't see any correlation to socialism in the fire service. If there was, all dept's would be basically the same.
    Socialism does not mean identical, socialism means government run, usually in an economic sense.

    It's not a dirty word, it's an economic theory, like capitalism or mercantilism.

  16. #96
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    i finally figured out a solution to our problem. 2016 im voting sparky the fire dog for president.

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