I hope those guys are alright.
As unfortunate as this is, this will be a good training video on why to heel a ladder.
I hope these guys are okay.
I agree on footing the ladder. That is a basic entry level firefighter taught skill.
There however is no way to use a roof ladder from the position they set up in. They would have had to go to the B side and place the ladder in between the houses to have a peak to place the roof ladder over.
That's one of those videos that needs to be shown to rookies. It's important to teach the basics, but it's also effective to show what can happen if you don't do something properly. That would've been a great spot to park a ladder truck if they had one. Dang, that video made me cringe!
I literally said outloud to myself seeing him go up the ladder, even before the second started up was, "Where the frak is he going?"
Then the second clip to where both are near the top, the roof ladder (unused) at the side and realizing they were on a slick driveway with no one butting the ladder, my thoughts turned to "this can't be good".
Hope the brothers are okay. Any follow-up?
I don't want to Monday morning QB this.. ESP with my relatively limited experience.. But is there any benefit to venting that roof? I mean could there be a void space? There's an aweful lot of people who saw the ladder not being footed.. I mean..
I just hope the brothers are ok.. ESP the 1 who looked like got hit with the saw.
I really try to not MMQB, but if there ever was a video of WHEN NOT to do vertical ventilation and HOW NOT to do it....this is it.
So they weren't attempting to draw the fire to that area over the garage? I figured they were helping the homeowner reduce his debris removal costs.:confused:
DevilDog 4 calls it "buffonery"... trust me, this happens all over the country, Canada, Mexico, South America, Europe, Asia and every point in between.
It comes to one word... training.
Firefighters get "insulted" when we go "back to the basics " for drills. Seeing videos like this only reinforces the need for visiting the basics.
So much fail here even if the ladder sliding out was not a part of this. I hope those two are ok, that was a pretty long fall.
p.s. In my opinion, on a public forum critiquing a video is a learning process, not Monday morning quarterbacking. I don't know when discussing this stuff became taboo.
anyone notice the one handed saw work ?
why even put yourself in a dangerous position like that to vent a garage attached to a home completely engulfed in flames?
and the horizontal vent video was an utter disgrace! **** like that happens all the time!
The long answer is............
It's pretty obvious that there is no fire in the actual garage area and the garage doors are wide open, so anything in that area that could be involved with fire and/or in need of being vented would be above a finished ceiling in the garage itself. If you look close enough, the movements of the FFs in the garage are consistent with those used while pulling a ceiling. If they are pulling the ceiling, then any fire up there could be hit from the bottom. Based on that, I think the trip to the roof may have been a little premature.
Although the video is only about 90 some seconds long, the editing leads me to believe that it was shot over a longer period. During the first part of the video, the fire does not look to be in the living areas. It looks very much like only most of the roof area is actually involved with fire. To me that says that it's likely that the different sections of the "attic space" are not isolated from each other and the fire is "running the roof". Regardless, from the angle of the video, it pretty much looks like the section they want to vent is the only part without fire already venting from it and it's a really small part.
So, there's really no benefit to venting that roof in the location in which they were working.
It's a little hard to tell from the angle of the video, but that area of the garage could be a "void space" rather than being "open" or "attic" space. Regardless, venting that particular area under those conditions would yield the same benefit mentioned above - none.
To me the tactics of this incident are irrelevant to this mishap. The mishap didn't occur directly because of the tactics it occurred because of a failure to follow basic ladder practices and butt the ladder on a slick surface. Ladder used on cement, asphalt or snow an ice covered surface MUST be butted or tied off. It is really that simple. Perhaps butting the ladder is not so critical when using a ladder on a soft surface where you can bury the heel spurs into grass or dirt. It would still be safer if butted or tied off but how many among us here have painted our house, or cleaned the gutters, or done siding, without having the ladder butted?
I watched this video a few times and to me the entire venting operation could have been done safer if thay had reporistioned to the B side of the building so a roof ladder could have been used, AND if the second FF had smply stayed on the ground and butted the ladder.
I like how the chief (or maybe it was the IC) in the white helmet comes over at around 1:01 to see what happened. Then he's like, "sh#$ I'm outta here." :D