Like Tree15Likes

Thread: Buffoonery at its best...

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    California
    Posts
    434

    Default Buffoonery at its best...


  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Catlettsburg, KY
    Posts
    378

    Default

    I hope those guys are alright.

    As unfortunate as this is, this will be a good training video on why to heel a ladder.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    I hope those guys are alright.

    As unfortunate as this is, this will be a good training video on why to heel a ladder.
    And why to not set it up on a slick surface, and why to use a roof ladder, and what can happen when you vent something that has CLEARLY vented itself...
    DKennedy82, ffbam24 and Miller337 like this.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  4. #4
    Forum Member
    dfwfirefighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Lone Star State
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BSFD9302 View Post
    As unfortunate as this is, this will be a good training video on why to heel a ladder.
    It is certainly easy to "Monday Morning Quarterback" a fire and videos such as this one make it difficult not to cast stones, however, this one is an excellent example of "bread and butter" basics of the fire service, i.e. foot the ladder.

    I hope these guys are okay.
    DFW



    "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,123

    Default

    I agree on footing the ladder. That is a basic entry level firefighter taught skill.

    There however is no way to use a roof ladder from the position they set up in. They would have had to go to the B side and place the ladder in between the houses to have a peak to place the roof ladder over.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Chief_Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    And why to not set it up on a slick surface, and why to use a roof ladder, and what can happen when you vent something that has CLEARLY vented itself...
    I'm glad somebody else noticed that. I don't claim to be the world's best tactician, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they needed to vent something that had already vented.
    ffbam24 and ffhh74 like this.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief_Roy View Post
    I'm glad somebody else noticed that. I don't claim to be the world's best tactician, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they needed to vent something that had already vented.
    And what products were they hoping to release? They are in the adjacent living space, i.e. the garage, and have no fire. So the best they could hope to do is grab some of the fire from the rear of the house and draw it toward the front of the house, thus spreading the fire.
    DCmedic1 likes this.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    OWWWWW!! SOB!!

    That's one of those videos that needs to be shown to rookies. It's important to teach the basics, but it's also effective to show what can happen if you don't do something properly. That would've been a great spot to park a ladder truck if they had one. Dang, that video made me cringe!

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ffbam24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    I literally said outloud to myself seeing him go up the ladder, even before the second started up was, "Where the frak is he going?"
    Then the second clip to where both are near the top, the roof ladder (unused) at the side and realizing they were on a slick driveway with no one butting the ladder, my thoughts turned to "this can't be good".

    Hope the brothers are okay. Any follow-up?

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Miller337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    And what products were they hoping to release? They are in the adjacent living space, i.e. the garage, and have no fire. So the best they could hope to do is grab some of the fire from the rear of the house and draw it toward the front of the house, thus spreading the fire.
    There was "firefighters " walking around in the garage at one point while this insanity was taking place.
    The engine was being fed with a 3" supply line and there was 3 1 1/2" attack lines for a fire which clearly needed at least 2 2 1/2 lines and then some.

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Poconos, Pa
    Posts
    796

    Default

    I don't want to Monday morning QB this.. ESP with my relatively limited experience.. But is there any benefit to venting that roof? I mean could there be a void space? There's an aweful lot of people who saw the ladder not being footed.. I mean..

    I just hope the brothers are ok.. ESP the 1 who looked like got hit with the saw.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I don't want to Monday morning QB this.. ESP with my relatively limited experience.. But is there any benefit to venting that roof? I mean could there be a void space? There's an aweful lot of people who saw the ladder not being footed.. I mean..

    I just hope the brothers are ok.. ESP the 1 who looked like got hit with the saw.
    If you ever wonder about the impact of venting laterally from where a fire has already vented, view this and skip ahead to 3:15...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzQibzeWtY
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    636

    Default

    I really try to not MMQB, but if there ever was a video of WHEN NOT to do vertical ventilation and HOW NOT to do it....this is it.
    Miller337 likes this.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    So they weren't attempting to draw the fire to that area over the garage? I figured they were helping the homeowner reduce his debris removal costs.
    Miller337 likes this.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    DevilDog 4 calls it "buffonery"... trust me, this happens all over the country, Canada, Mexico, South America, Europe, Asia and every point in between.

    It comes to one word... training.

    Firefighters get "insulted" when we go "back to the basics " for drills. Seeing videos like this only reinforces the need for visiting the basics.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    So much fail here even if the ladder sliding out was not a part of this. I hope those two are ok, that was a pretty long fall.

    p.s. In my opinion, on a public forum critiquing a video is a learning process, not Monday morning quarterbacking. I don't know when discussing this stuff became taboo.
    rm1524 likes this.
    IAFF

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,043

    Default

    anyone notice the one handed saw work ?
    ?

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Miller337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    anyone notice the one handed saw work ?
    Yeah, but the no hands saw trick is what really grabs your attention.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,043

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Yeah, but the no hands saw trick is what really grabs your attention.
    yeah -deff an aww sh1t moment
    ?

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LI
    Posts
    78

    Default

    why even put yourself in a dangerous position like that to vent a garage attached to a home completely engulfed in flames?

    and the horizontal vent video was an utter disgrace! **** like that happens all the time!

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I don't want to Monday morning QB this.. ESP with my relatively limited experience.. But is there any benefit to venting that roof? I mean could there be a void space?
    The short answer to your questions is pretty much "no" and "does it matter?".

    The long answer is............

    It's pretty obvious that there is no fire in the actual garage area and the garage doors are wide open, so anything in that area that could be involved with fire and/or in need of being vented would be above a finished ceiling in the garage itself. If you look close enough, the movements of the FFs in the garage are consistent with those used while pulling a ceiling. If they are pulling the ceiling, then any fire up there could be hit from the bottom. Based on that, I think the trip to the roof may have been a little premature.

    Although the video is only about 90 some seconds long, the editing leads me to believe that it was shot over a longer period. During the first part of the video, the fire does not look to be in the living areas. It looks very much like only most of the roof area is actually involved with fire. To me that says that it's likely that the different sections of the "attic space" are not isolated from each other and the fire is "running the roof". Regardless, from the angle of the video, it pretty much looks like the section they want to vent is the only part without fire already venting from it and it's a really small part.

    So, there's really no benefit to venting that roof in the location in which they were working.

    It's a little hard to tell from the angle of the video, but that area of the garage could be a "void space" rather than being "open" or "attic" space. Regardless, venting that particular area under those conditions would yield the same benefit mentioned above - none.

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,123

    Default

    To me the tactics of this incident are irrelevant to this mishap. The mishap didn't occur directly because of the tactics it occurred because of a failure to follow basic ladder practices and butt the ladder on a slick surface. Ladder used on cement, asphalt or snow an ice covered surface MUST be butted or tied off. It is really that simple. Perhaps butting the ladder is not so critical when using a ladder on a soft surface where you can bury the heel spurs into grass or dirt. It would still be safer if butted or tied off but how many among us here have painted our house, or cleaned the gutters, or done siding, without having the ladder butted?

    I watched this video a few times and to me the entire venting operation could have been done safer if thay had reporistioned to the B side of the building so a roof ladder could have been used, AND if the second FF had smply stayed on the ground and butted the ladder.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    To me the tactics of this incident are irrelevant to this mishap. The mishap didn't occur directly because of the tactics it occurred because of a failure to follow basic ladder practices and butt the ladder on a slick surface.
    It was both. The ladder would not have fallen if it had been on a better surface and been properly heeled, but tactically it should have never been raised to begin with.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  24. #24
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    p.s. In my opinion, on a public forum critiquing a video is a learning process, not Monday morning quarterbacking. I don't know when discussing this stuff became taboo.
    You're right. We have had issues on here with people making ridiculous assumptions when they couldn't see or hear what was happening, and from there everybody got gun-shy.

    Unheeled ladder on ice, raised to vent roof that doesn't need it. Facts is facts.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Chief_Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    197

    Default

    I like how the chief (or maybe it was the IC) in the white helmet comes over at around 1:01 to see what happened. Then he's like, "sh#$ I'm outta here."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register