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Thread: 18 Children Dead in CT Mass Shooting

  1. #341
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Please continue with your continued revealing that your position shifts like a windsock in a cyclone.
    Wrong again. I didn't divert into a completely unrelated incident that has nothing to do with a mass shooting incident. I didn't play the race card. I have stayed 100% on topic. I have proven repeatedly that you can't even identify PROPERLY the firearm supposedly used by the Sandy Hook shooter. Which depending on which media source you listen to was 2 pistols, or 2 pistols and an AR type rifle, or the AR type rifle was found in the trunk of his car and never went into the building. I have offered viable solutions to the problem of guns being used in crimes, I offered solutions to the mental health issue. All you have done is make up fanciful stories, lie, not know the proper nomenclature for the firearms you wish to discuss, and your crowning glory...Play the race card. Even made more ludicrous since race has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Sandy Hook incident, the shooter was white and so were the victims. Gosh, tell me again who is shifting in the wind trying to cover both their complete incompetence and inability to discuss the topic factually...Never mind, I and most others here know that it is YOU.
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  2. #342
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    All good suggestions.


    What else? How about some reference checks
    A definite possibility, but who do you ask: ex-wife, ex-boss, disgruntled neighbor?
    ....employment checks,
    What if retired or lives in a rural area? Many move to Alaska to get off the grid, but I would argue a gun is as essnetial there as toilet paper.
    family/friend/relative/etc. Fingerprint search. Not against a financial background check either.
    Again I use the rural setting and/or Alaska as an example. From the mass shootings, a financial background check would limit those of affluence and upper middle class.
    We also need to add mandatory sentencing to those that use a weapon in the commission of a crime. No plea bargaining.

    I like what this guy is saying:
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...d-narcissists/
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  3. #343
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Wrong again. I didn't divert into a completely unrelated incident that has nothing to do with a mass shooting incident. I didn't play the race card. I have stayed 100% on topic. I have proven repeatedly that you can't even identify PROPERLY the firearm supposedly used by the Sandy Hook shooter. Which depending on which media source you listen to was 2 pistols, or 2 pistols and an AR type rifle, or the AR type rifle was found in the trunk of his car and never went into the building. I have offered viable solutions to the problem of guns being used in crimes, I offered solutions to the mental health issue. All you have done is make up fanciful stories, lie, not know the proper nomenclature for the firearms you wish to discuss, and your crowning glory...Play the race card. Even made more ludicrous since race has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Sandy Hook incident, the shooter was white and so were the victims. Gosh, tell me again who is shifting in the wind trying to cover both their complete incompetence and inability to discuss the topic factually...Never mind, I and most others here know that it is YOU.
    Your demand for exact nomenclature has already been discussed ad infinitum. The point you are trying to avoid is the difference in reaction to the shootings in both incidents.

    In both incidents we have an unarmed individual(s) being shot to death by an armed individual. In one instance the NRA and its followers are wanting us to believe that arming the unarmed individual is the solution to saving lives. In the other instance there is no mention of support of arming the unarmed individual against an armed individual that provoked a confrontation. Which we know from the 911 transcript from Zimmerman's own words. He states to the dispatcher that he is following Martin. The dispatcher replies that is not necessary and that an officer is on the way. Yet Zimmerman continues. We also know there was no indication that Martin was involved in any criminal activity (via the police report) and that Martin had no previous criminal record. We do know there was no concern that African American youths should start arming themselves for protection against overzealous vigilantes. You claim I'm throwing down the race card. Tell us why there is no one from the NRA supporting a position that Martin should have been armed given the facts as we presently know them. I don't expect you to know given that you don't work there. However, the appearance is the NRA is significantly biased in how it believes the issue of gun ownership should be a solution to protect one's self.

    Please proceed with pedantic firearm nomenclature that is not relevant to the topic.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-10-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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  4. #344
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your opinion is completely invalid. WHY? Because I met the LETTER OF THE LAW when I made that purchase. If you feel that the background check, which is a criminal history, is inadequate maybe you should speak to your legislators about it. But to attempt to chastise me for FOLLOWING THE LAW makes you look ridiculous.
    Attempt to chastise you? Ok, if you think so. Maybe you are getting a little unhinged here.

    I am just surprised you feel that is a thorough enough background check.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  5. #345
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    What else? How about some reference checks
    A definite possibility, but who do you ask: ex-wife, ex-boss, disgruntled neighbor?
    ....employment checks,
    What if retired or lives in a rural area? Many move to Alaska to get off the grid, but I would argue a gun is as essnetial there as toilet paper.
    family/friend/relative/etc. Fingerprint search. Not against a financial background check either.
    Again I use the rural setting and/or Alaska as an example. From the mass shootings, a financial background check would limit those of affluence and upper middle class.

    We also need to add mandatory sentencing to those that use a weapon in the commission of a crime. No plea bargaining.
    All very valid concerns, and I will agree there would need to be some fine tuning. As for the financial check, not saying only those with money be Ok'd but if someone recently claimed bankruptcy or similar....may raise a flag on why they all of sudden want a gun. You know, kind of that "get the whole picture" type of check.

    I also agree on the mandatory sentencing.


    I am a volunteer coach for my school district. I go through more of a background check than apparently what is needed to buy a gun at a gun show. I think that's a problem.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #346
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Attempt to chastise you? Ok, if you think so. Maybe you are getting a little unhinged here.

    I am just surprised you feel that is a thorough enough background check.
    I followed the law, completely and 100%. You aren't happy with the procedure. Not my fault. With my CLEAN record I was able to purchase a firearm following all the legal steps to do so.

    Actually, I believe a criminal background check is the best way to do a background check. We have no way at present to do a mental health check. As far as what neighbors, family members, or my employer thinks, I see a chance for anti-gun zealots to prevent people fom getting guns. It is simply not an objective way to determine someone's fitness for gun ownership.

    Again, my point is I did everything according to the law and you still aren't happy...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  7. #347
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Your demand for exact nomenclature has already been discussed ad infinitum. The point you are trying to avoid is the difference in reaction to the shootings in both incidents.

    In both incidents we have an unarmed individual(s) being shot to death by an armed individual. In one instance the NRA and its followers are wanting us to believe that arming the unarmed individual is the solution to saving lives. In the other instance there is no mention of support of arming the unarmed individual against an armed individual that provoked a confrontation. Which we know from the 911 transcript from Zimmerman's own words. He states to the dispatcher that he is following Martin. The dispatcher replies that is not necessary and that an officer is on the way. Yet Zimmerman continues. We also know there was no indication that Martin was involved in any criminal activity (via the police report) and that Martin had no previous criminal record. We do know there was no concern that African American youths should start arming themselves for protection against overzealous vigilantes. You claim I'm throwing down the race card. Tell us why there is no one from the NRA supporting a position that Martin should have been armed given the facts as we presently know them. I don't expect you to know given that you don't work there. However, the appearance is the NRA is significantly biased in how it believes the issue of gun ownership should be a solution to protect one's self.

    Please proceed with pedantic firearm nomenclature that is not relevant to the topic.
    Your posting style reminds me of what Patches O'Houlihan tells the Average Joe's gym Dodgeball Team "Dodge, duck, dip, dive and Dodge." You haven't remained on topic since the beginning of this topic. Now the Travon Martin incident that has absolutely not one single thing to do with this incident is your latest nonsenseical diversion.

    Let's do a comparison between the 2 shall we?

    Sandy Hook shooting the weapons were stolen, Zimmerman legally owned the guy he used.

    Sandy Hook was a horrific mass murder perpetrated by a mentally ill individual, Zimmerman claims self defense in a shooting of a single individual. Side note, you have declared Zimmerman "Gunned Down" Martin, I prefer to wait and see what the results of the trial are since I wasn't there and don't know for sure what actually transpired.

    Sandy Hook involved multiple weapons, fireing multiple rounds in a planned mass murder, Martin was shot one time as the result of a chance encounter with Zimmerman. There was no plan and a confrontation of some kind got out of hand.

    Now, can we get back to the topic of this post or will you just admit that you are completely anti-gun and stop hiding behind the false pretense that you are not.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Magazines are not firearms.

    Please point me to where I've advocated eliminating private firearms ownership.
    So then why do you want to limit magazine size? What's to keep a person from strapping a dozen handguns to themselves? You continually harp on a subject that is meaningless, and will do NOTHING to eliminate the possibility from an insane or evil person from killing people.

  9. #349
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    So then why do you want to limit magazine size? What's to keep a person from strapping a dozen handguns to themselves? You continually harp on a subject that is meaningless, and will do NOTHING to eliminate the possibility from an insane or evil person from killing people.
    Nothing stops a person from strapping a dozen handguns to themselves. However, they run out of bullets after 10 rounds and have to stop to find their next weapon (or change magazines). That takes time. Maybe seconds. But those seconds are time potential victims can use to either counter the assailant or run away. You say that is meaningless. I've cited examples where that time lag was used to great effect in stopping the gunman. IMO, that is not meaningless.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #350
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your posting style reminds me of what Patches O'Houlihan tells the Average Joe's gym Dodgeball Team "Dodge, duck, dip, dive and Dodge." You haven't remained on topic since the beginning of this topic. Now the Travon Martin incident that has absolutely not one single thing to do with this incident is your latest nonsenseical diversion.
    I've repeatedly pointed out the different reactions between the Sandy Hook and Trayvon Martin case on more than one occasion. After one incident where an unarmed individual was killed by an armed individual there was no support for arming the unarmed the individual. In another incident that solution was put forth repeatedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Sandy Hook was a horrific mass murder perpetrated by a mentally ill individual, Zimmerman claims self defense in a shooting of a single individual. Side note, you have declared Zimmerman "Gunned Down" Martin, I prefer to wait and see what the results of the trial are since I wasn't there and don't know for sure what actually transpired.
    We do know that Zimmerman continued to seek out Martin. That much is sure based upon the evidence put forth in the complaint that charged him. The legality of Zimmerman's gun ownership is not relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Sandy Hook involved multiple weapons, fireing multiple rounds in a planned mass murder, Martin was shot one time as the result of a chance encounter with Zimmerman. There was no plan and a confrontation of some kind got out of hand.
    Disagree. Zimmerman desired a confrontation when he ignored the dispatcher's request to stop following Martin.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Now, can we get back to the topic of this post or will you just admit that you are completely anti-gun and stop hiding behind the false pretense that you are not.
    Please point me to where I've stated that private ownership of firearms should not be allowed. The only regulatory changes I've suggested are the elimination of the secondary market (aka gun shows) and limiting magazine capacity. Yet you have made the superman's leap into believing I "completely" anti-gun.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    I do not own any guns, however, many of my wife's family and many of my friends own multiple weapons including semi-automatic weapons.

    Owning guns is a right garunteed by our Constitution. It's really that simple.

    And that should be the end of the discussion.
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  12. #352
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Nothing stops a person from strapping a dozen handguns to themselves. However, they run out of bullets after 10 rounds and have to stop to find their next weapon (or change magazines). That takes time. Maybe seconds. But those seconds are time potential victims can use to either counter the assailant or run away. You say that is meaningless. I've cited examples where that time lag was used to great effect in stopping the gunman. IMO, that is not meaningless.
    Your scenario is ludicrous if you are saying it would have made a difference at Sandy Hook. Who would jump the gunman? Elelmentary school children? Female teachers who were far more concerned with protecting their students? Who? You see you continue with these ridiculous justifications for banning gun related items with these idiotic premises.
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  13. #353
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I've repeatedly pointed out the different reactions between the Sandy Hook and Trayvon Martin case on more than one occasion. After one incident where an unarmed individual was killed by an armed individual there was no support for arming the unarmed the individual. In another incident that solution was put forth repeatedly.

    Off topic and irrelevant to the Sandy hook incident being discussed here. Nice try, no points will be awarded.


    We do know that Zimmerman continued to seek out Martin. That much is sure based upon the evidence put forth in the complaint that charged him. The legality of Zimmerman's gun ownership is not relevant.

    See above.


    Disagree. Zimmerman desired a confrontation when he ignored the dispatcher's request to stop following Martin.

    See above.


    Please point me to where I've stated that private ownership of firearms should not be allowed. The only regulatory changes I've suggested are the elimination of the secondary market (aka gun shows) and limiting magazine capacity. Yet you have made the superman's leap into believing I "completely" anti-gun.

    Why eliminate gun shows? I have already stted that the shotgun I purchased was done in accordance with all state and federal laws and a back ground check and paperwork were done.
    The Travon Martin incident AND gun shows have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Sandy Hook incident. By continually diverting off into other areas YOU LOOK like an anti-gunner stretching for more reasons to ban guns. If you are pro-gun please stop because you aren't doing a damn thng to show it.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  14. #354
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I do not own any guns, however, many of my wife's family and many of my friends own multiple weapons including semi-automatic weapons.

    Owning guns is a right garunteed by our Constitution. It's really that simple.

    And that should be the end of the discussion.
    The only thing I would add to this EXCELLENT post is that many of the founding fathers openly advocated IN WRITING for private citizen's rights to own firearms. In fact it was so important to them that they made it sound like an obligation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your scenario is ludicrous if you are saying it would have made a difference at Sandy Hook. Who would jump the gunman? Elelmentary school children? Female teachers who were far more concerned with protecting their students? Who? You see you continue with these ridiculous justifications for banning gun related items with these idiotic premises.
    Might as well be talking to LA about firefighting.....

  16. #356
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Might as well be talking to LA about firefighting.....
    Now that is funny ****e right there!!
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  17. #357
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I do not own any guns, however, many of my wife's family and many of my friends own multiple weapons including semi-automatic weapons.

    Owning guns is a right garunteed by our Constitution. It's really that simple.

    And that should be the end of the discussion.
    So ex-cons, mentally ill, etc should all be allowed guns....after all, they have rights under the Constitution as well.

    Or do you support some restrictions on that right?

    A restriction on who gets the right is not much different than a restriction on what guns are allowed to be owned.

    So it's really NOT that simple.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  18. #358
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    ...
    Again, my point is I did everything according to the law and you still aren't happy...
    Actually, I'm very happy you and the dealer did everything according to the law. I'm not overly thrilled that the law is so lax though.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  19. #359
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Actually, I'm very happy you and the dealer did everything according to the law. I'm not overly thrilled that the law is so lax though.
    I'm not happy about a lot of lax laws either. A particular pet peeve of mine is the ridiculously loud pipes allowed on motorcycles. Another is the hypocrisy that says while inside my pick up truck i have to wear a seatbelt while some chucklehead on that same loud piped motorcycle doesn't have to wear any safety equipment at all except eye protection. Hell, they can wear flip flops while riding. But they are in compliance with the law...no matter how much I disagree with it.

    My point, who cares if you aren't overy thrilled with the law? If I am in complance with the law that is ALL that matters to me regarding purchasing and owning firearms.

    By the way, I AM a law abiding citizen and I find your and others attempts to usurp MY rights in yet another ridiculous attempt, that will fail miserably yet again, to do something about criminals and the mentally ill, totally un-American..
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  20. #360
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy



    Interesting technology. Ability to turn anyone into a "sniper".
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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