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Thread: 18 Children Dead in CT Mass Shooting

  1. #621
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Where does the 2nd Amendment state you have a right to own a magazine with greater than a 10 round capacity?
    Where does it say I don't have that right? You see it is that easy to invalidate your baseless statement.
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  2. #622
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Huh?
    Never mind, obviously above your comprehension level.


    Where is it written that one has a right to own a magazine with a greater than 10 round capacity?
    Where was it written that one doesn't? Why should my rights as a law abiding citizen be limited because there are crazy people in the world who already break law upon law to acquire weapons to commit crimes? I legally purchase and go through the proper channels to obtain firearms. Why should MY rights be limited?


    LIke FyredUp you sink into delusion. I've implied no such thing.
    I think you should take your own advice as far as reading comprehension is concerned. Learn how to.

    Where does the 2nd Amendment state you have a right to own a magazine with greater than a 10 round capacity?
    Where does it say I can't?
    Good try. Appreciate the effort. Gold Star for SCfire.
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  3. #623
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Where does it say I don't have that right? You see it is that easy to invalidate your baseless statement.
    It's okay. He tried. We'll give him a Bulldog Award. That way he'll feel he's still special.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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  4. #624
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post

    You believe the status quo is working. When that is not the case.
    And you believe limiting magazine capacity for law abiding citizens will deter crime. You're aware that criminals are criminals because they don't follow the law right?

    I know that doesn't fit your agenda, but facts are facts.
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    How many crazy people have run through a school with a hammer and killed over two dozen people? How many crazy people have smuggled a hammer into a crowded theater and used it to kill two dozen people and injure about five times that many? Yet another ridiculous analogy. But since you claim to only argue with facts, could you show me the source of that statement regarding hammers? Heck, I'll even let you expand it to blunt objects.

    My issue with your position is that you are very hungup on the "mass murder" and "at one time" thing.

    The bottom line is, when looking at the cases of death, is not when they died but how many. The fact that on very rare occasions a large group of people die from guns is quite irrelevant in the discussion.

    As an example, a couple of years ago we had 6 kids die in a single drowning incident on the red River between Bossier City and Shreveport. certainly it was tragic, but was it any more significant than if 6 kids had died in six incidents? No. Should it matter in the discussion on water safety and how dangerous it is to swim in that river whether 6 kids died at one time or in 6 separate incidents? No.

    Another example is that on very rare occasions, much like mass shootings, a significant number of people are killed in a single bus accident. Is there immediate discussion about banning the use of buses because there is a possibility for a rare mass-fatality accident? No. Same with the car accident that kills the entire family of 5 or 6. In the long run it's truly irrelevant if 3 people died in 4 bus accidents or 12 died in 1.

    I won't even discuss airplane crashes, as following the "at one time thing" we should ban airplanes because of that possibility.

    The simple fact is I'm not hung up on Aurora's or Sandy Hook's or Virginia Tech's. mass shootings are statically extremely rare events and to use incidents of that type as a basis for abridge the Constitutional rights of Americans to own large capacity magazines is simply foolish.
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  6. #626
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    How many crazy people have run through a school with a hammer and killed over two dozen people? How many crazy people have smuggled a hammer into a crowded theater and used it to kill two dozen people and injure about five times that many? Yet another ridiculous analogy. But since you claim to only argue with facts, could you show me the source of that statement regarding hammers? Heck, I'll even let you expand it to blunt objects.
    What part of my statement isn't factual?

    My issue with your position is that you are very hungup on the "mass murder" and "at one time" thing.
    My issue with your position is the analogy is ridiculous.

    The bottom line is, when looking at the cases of death, is not when they died but how many. The fact that on very rare occasions a large group of people die from guns is quite irrelevant in the discussion.
    The bottom line is that semi-auto weapons can cause a lot deaths at one time. Something that is virtually impossible with a hammer. It's about capabilities.

    As an example, a couple of years ago we had 6 kids die in a single drowning incident on the red River between Bossier City and Shreveport. certainly it was tragic, but was it any more significant than if 6 kids had died in six incidents? No. Should it matter in the discussion on water safety and how dangerous it is to swim in that river whether 6 kids died at one time or in 6 separate incidents? No.
    It certainly is tragic. My thoughts go out to those parents. However, drowning is an accepted consequence when one gets into a body of water. Even if it is a bathtub. Being shot to death by a crazy person is not (or was not) the typical expectation of a parent when they send their child to school in the morning or when one sits down to watch a movie. At least not where I live.

    Another example is that on very rare occasions, much like mass shootings, a significant number of people are killed in a single bus accident. Is there immediate discussion about banning the use of buses because there is a possibility for a rare mass-fatality accident? No. Same with the car accident that kills the entire family of 5 or 6. In the long run it's truly irrelevant if 3 people died in 4 bus accidents or 12 died in 1.
    See above response. Change swimming and drowning to driving and fatal MVA.

    I won't even discuss airplane crashes, as following the "at one time thing" we should ban airplanes because of that possibility.
    See above response. Change swimming and drowning to flying and crashing.

    The simple fact is I'm not hung up on Aurora's or Sandy Hook's or Virginia Tech's. mass shootings are statically extremely rare events and to use incidents of that type as a basis for abridge the Constitutional rights of Americans to own large capacity magazines is simply foolish.
    Your child wasn't one of those affected. There is no Constitutional right being abridged by limiting magazine capacity. That belief is just foolish.
    You are back to making stupid arguments. I had hope for you earlier. But that was quickly dashed.
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  7. #627
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/3020...town-shooting/
    Huge press, pomp, and circumstance to ban "assault rifles", using Sandy Hook as an example-one wasn't even used.
    4 handguns; let's be honest, he could have caused that much carnage with 4 revolvers with 6 rounds each. So how is a ban on high-capacity magazines going to help?
    By giving others time to get away or rush him. Something the principal was doing when he shot her. Had he only had six bullets he might have been fumbling around searching for another handgun after emptying the first.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Nothing more then uneducated, knee jerk reactions from the left. Hell, in New York, in their rush to utopia, their latest gun laws may have failed to exempt law enforcement.
    Not difficult to amend laws.
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  8. #628
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Where does it say I don't have that right? You see it is that easy to invalidate your baseless statement.
    It doesn't. Our legal system isn't designed to prove a negative. Laws are specific to what is allowed. Making everything else allowable. Please proceed with that thought process and I hope you never try to use it as a defense if you're caught breaking one.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #629
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    And you believe limiting magazine capacity for law abiding citizens will deter crime. You're aware that criminals are criminals because they don't follow the law right?
    Once again your solution is to do nothing since you believe nothing is perfect. Then let's get rid of all laws since that doesn't stop people from breaking them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I know that doesn't fit your agenda, but facts are facts.
    The facts are the status quo is unacceptable to many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    It's okay. He tried. We'll give him a Bulldog Award. That way he'll feel he's still special.
    Read my response to him on this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Never mind, obviously above your comprehension level.
    No point being made. Hence there was nothing to comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Where was it written that one doesn't? Why should my rights as a law abiding citizen be limited because there are crazy people in the world who already break law upon law to acquire weapons to commit crimes? I legally purchase and go through the proper channels to obtain firearms. Why should MY rights be limited?
    See earlier comments on the law and those who break them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I think you should take your own advice as far as reading comprehension is concerned. Learn how to.
    I think you should learn how to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Where does it say I can't?
    See earlier response to FyredUp regarding the law and its intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Good try. Appreciate the effort. Gold Star for SCfire.
    No sweat. Thanks.
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  10. #630
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    This will be my absolutely last post on this thread. I'll let one of you (or all of you) have the last word.

    It's been fun watching those with contrary opinions dissolve into name calling, firehouse lawyering, rants, outrageous comparative analogies, and syllogistic delusion.

    You all have a good weekend.

    See you on another topic.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-19-2013 at 09:32 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I doubt the parents of those children at Sandy Hook, Columbine, or VA Tech would agree with you.
    Really? You think the parents of these victims honestly compare the murderers of their family are comparable to law-abiding citizens?


    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The apples to apples comparison would be the number of people killed in a mass murder (defined as four or more at one time) with knives and baseball bats. If you want to use all blunt objects then one must also use all firearms. In which case that number isn't remotely comparable given the amount of people killed with firearms every year versus any other method.
    Of course it is, because you like to move the target. Regardless, shall we take a look at some of the mass murders in our history?

    Shall I do the research into mass murders for you? Want to bet how many used assualt rifles? I've found one, other than those named here, that occurred in 1982. The guy was a prison guard who just got fired and used his AR to kill his family.

    Some other examples- Jim Jones who used cyanide, several folks who committed murder/suicide on airplanes, several arsonists, several who drove vehicles into crowds, things like that. Very few have used "assault rifles" and very few appear to have used rifles capable of a 10-round mag.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    A big problem when you are on the wrong end of one.
    Odds are I won't be on the end of one. At least not the working end. The odds are considerably better I'll be on the bad end of a knife or bat than an "assault rifle".

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I've never advocated getting rid of them. I've only advocated limiting the capacity of magazines. It's others on this board believe I'm opposed to owning semi-auto firearms.
    You sure do play the Devil's advocate well, then. You also have yet to give any indication how 10-round mags would have made any difference in any of these shootings.

    Lanze swapped mags several times during his rampage. He dropped half-empty mags performing the tactical-reloading he used on his first-person shooter games prior to entering a new room.

    You had better be damn quick and damn close if you want to take advantage of any even half-capable shooter while changing out mags.

    Ban the large capacity weapons and you'll make very little difference. Give me a pair of cargo pants and I'll carry at least 100 rounds in mags, more depending on caliber, along with several weapons. Give me a tactical vest like these guys were wearing, and I can probalby get 1000+ along with multiple weapons to go with it.

    This AWB and mag restriction is nothing but an opportunity for the Left to push an agenda. What's scary is that they avoid the real problem that rings in all of these mass murders- mental health issues.
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  12. #632
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    By giving others time to get away or rush him. Something the principal was doing when he shot her. Had he only had six bullets he might have been fumbling around searching for another handgun after emptying the first.

    Maybe, definitely a hypothetical, but all for naught as she was the 2nd or 3rd one shot. Silly facts destroying another baseless point.
    Not difficult to amend laws.
    Maybe, but it shows the results of irrational, uneducated, knee jerk reactions.
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    What I like is that the new gun law that they are trying to pass in Delaware expands the Gun Free Zone around schools to 1000 from 500 ft.

    I'm sure that that will stop the next school shooter.

    Idiots.
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  14. #634
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    What I like is that the new gun law that they are trying to pass in Delaware expands the Gun Free Zone around schools to 1000 from 500 ft.

    I'm sure that that will stop the next school shooter.

    Idiots.
    Somebody will get to claim they did something, no matter how obtuse. Thats all the idiots care about. Typical of polititians.....
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This will be my absolutely last post on this thread. I'll let one of you (or all of you) have the last word.
    Thank you. Now the adults can discuss the issue and use facts instead of emotional responses.

    It's been fun watching those with contrary opinions dissolve into name calling, firehouse lawyering, rants, outrageous comparative analogies, and syllogistic delusion.
    Kind of like you do on any other thread? No ones analogies have been near as foolish as yours, and what you fail to acknowledge is that Fyredup, Myself, SPFD, Catch, and even LA, keep coming back and beating you with facts.

    You all have a good weekend.
    You as well.

    See you on another topic.
    Hopefully you'll stick to topics where you know what you're talking about.
    Pro 2A rallies in each state at noon today, most of them are at the state capitol.
    Just in case anyone was free and wanted something to do today.
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  16. #636
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It doesn't. Our legal system isn't designed to prove a negative. Laws are specific to what is allowed. Making everything else allowable. Please proceed with that thought process and I hope you never try to use it as a defense if you're caught breaking one.
    The fact is YOU and the entire anti-gun crowd, are adding wording to the Second Ammendment.

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
    Given the FACT that civilians were the militia in the time of the writing of the Consitution, and in fact if we were attacked today, would once again become the militia, well other than the anti-gun crowd and the appeasers, nothing has changed.

    It also quite clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." It would seem despite what the courts and Congress have done in the past any law they pass restricting firearms ownership is unconstitutional. It doesn't say go ahead and whittle away these rights.

    It doesn't say have a political front, the anti-gunners, can decide they have the power to infringe on other's rights. Read it and realize that any laws passed and any further attempts are unconstitutional.
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  17. #637
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This will be my absolutely last post on this thread. I'll let one of you (or all of you) have the last word.

    It's been fun watching those with contrary opinions dissolve into name calling, firehouse lawyering, rants, outrageous comparative analogies, and syllogistic delusion.

    You all have a good weekend.

    See you on another topic.
    You are the master of outrageous analogies.

    Comparing gun laws to the manufacture of potato chips.

    Comparing the Travon martin shooting to Sandy Hook.

    Comparing explosives to firearms.

    And on and on and on....

    You are the stupid analogy master.
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  18. #638
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    scfire86: Once again your solution is to do nothing since you believe nothing is perfect. Then let's get rid of all laws since that doesn't stop people from breaking them.
    Once again YOUR reading comprehension is the one that needs questioning. Not a single one of us here that opposes useless, knee jerk, emotional, feel good legislation that in reality will not solve a damn thing has proposed do absolutely nothing.

    The proposals have included mandatory sentencing for crimes involving the use of firearms, whether they were fired or not, a stricter background check, registration (which I personally oppose), waiting periods for rifles and shotguns, and a complete overhaul of the mental health system in this country so that potentially violent mentally ill persons get necessary treatment before they go off the deep end.

    The pathetically sad part is you and Bones came on here spouting absolute nonsense about guns laws and were brought to task by myself and others. That neither one of you could admit your ignorance on that topic speaks volumes about you both and will, for me personally, jade how I approach anything either of you ever post here on FH.com from now on.


    Further you running away from the beating you got here doesn't make you anymore right than the first time you posted erroneous information on this topic. Although if I were you I would run away too because no matter how many left wing anti-gun talking points you post you will still be wrong.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 01-19-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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  19. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Somebody will get to claim they did something, no matter how obtuse. Thats all the idiots care about. Typical of polititians.....
    Exactly. It's not about finding a true solution, it's about making sure to get your picture in the paper doing something, no matter what it is, and getting to push your agenda along the way.

    I love what I'm reading about Obama's Biden-led task-force. That wasn't about finding solutions, it was about an agenda and giving the appearance of giving a sh$%.

  20. #640
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    The truth is all the noise about doing something to stop the violence is a smoke screen to the real agenda, eliminating private ownership of guns. It is nothing new, the left and the anti-gun crowd have been trying for decades.

    This is exactly why I have trouble trying to attach myself to either the reds or the blues when it comes to politics, neither one of them represents me and what I believe in.
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