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Thread: 18 Children Dead in CT Mass Shooting

  1. #661
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Have not heard anyone ever state that.

    No one denies there are more deaths by other methods.

    But those other methods have a purpose other than killing. Guns don't. That is what a gun was designed for. That is a little difference.
    Only for killing? Really? What am I killing when I am target shooting? You see, that is 99+% of what I do with my firearms, target shoot. Probably far less than the 1% left is they get used for eliminating pest animals or wild animals with distemper on my property.
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  2. #662
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Ah, the video game theory. I grew up playing Asteroids and Space Invaders. Has not led me to want to be in space shooting aliens. I also played a lot of Pong (the Atari version) and that has not made me want to be a ping pong player.

    No, I don't buy into the video game playing makes someone act certain ways theory. (and there are restrictions on video games as to who can play them....)

    Now this is quite possibly the funniest thing you have ever posted. The restriction is on who can buy them. I know parents that bought their young children Grand theft auto and the Halo games which are filled with violence and supposedly for mature audiences.
    The truth is TV, movies, and video games influence people with little or no parental supervision or guidance.
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    And to me, restricting those weapons will help stop future events.
    Because they are used in an insigificant amount of incidents statistically, the effect on overall gun violence will be minimal.

    I am not downplaying the pain and suffering of those that lost loved ones, but they are no more significant than the mugging victim shot and killed over his wallet, or the rape victim murdered by an armed assailant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    And to me, restricting those weapons will help stop future events.
    I would love to know how.

    The last AWB didn't stop Klebold and Harris from using weapons listed specifically, by name, in that ban. Lanza stole the weapons he used. William Spangler obtained his weapons illegally. Thomas White stole his fathers gun, a gun his father possessed illegally as a convicted felon. Timothy McVeigh violated how many laws in building the bombs that destroyed the Murrah building?

    The Clinton-era AWB had no discernable effect, per the people that Feinstein says studied it and stated otherwise (she only cites the parts she wants, as if that's surprising). Chicago's weapons restrictions have had little effect, especially considering 96% of homicides in that city are by people with a prior history and 80% are gang-related.

    Drinking and driving laws don't keep drunk drivers off the road. Drug laws don't keep people from getting drugs. Homicide laws don't keep people from killing others, regardless of the tool used. Arson laws don't keep people from setting fires, nor from using fire to kill others.

    Aside from that, an AWB would have had zero effect on the shooting in Tuscon or Virginia Tech.

    Why is it you gun-control folks cannot wrap around your head the fact that criminals don't give a rats arse about the law? They don't care that these weapons are illegal, they are going to obtain them anyway.

    We have numerous laws already on the books that aren't enforced. What in the world makes you think that anyone other than the law-abiding citizen is going to follow these new laws? Sane, rational, law-abiding citizens don't commmit these atrocities. The mentally ill and criminals do, and they don't give a rip about what law gets passed.

    Here's a concept that I guarantee will work. Get the guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, gang members, and criminals.

    I'm not an advocate for putting more guns in the hands of people, that's asking for problems. There are a ton of law-abiding citizens that have no business with a gun in their hand in public. It's asking for the wrong person to get shot. I actually won a free lunch by proving this to someone who said they've never seen where an innocent bystander was wounded by a CCW permit-holder when trying to prevent a crime. It has happened and I have no doubt it will happen again.

    What I'm advocating, as well as many opposed to this new round of gun control measures, is getting the guns out of the hands of people who aren't supposed to have them, or shouldn't have them and leaving the law-abiding gun owners alone.

    What I want is someone to show me evidence this new gun control measure is going to stop these killings. How is it going to keep these mentally ill people from using another tool? How is it going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

    They can't do it. The statistics show its not going to happen, but for some reason the gun control crowd has this delusion that these people are suddenly going to actually abide by the law. Its a fantasy, at best.

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    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    I do believe that I've heard this whole argument before!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Y3s7NjULI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    But those other methods have a purpose other than killing. Guns don't. That is what a gun was designed for.
    I am so sick hearing that falsehood repeated as if it were gospel.

    Firearms are designed to accurately propel a projectile. They have multiple purposes and for the majority in civilian use that purpose isn't killing. Of those used for that purpose, the vast majority are used to kill game.

    If you object to that you'd better be vegan...
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    In response to my letter to my Congressman concerning the renewed attack on our 2nd Amendment rights. It sums up my thoughts to a "T" and I thought that I would share it with you guys.

    Mark Meadows Eleventh District, North Carolina


    1516 Longworth Office Building (202) 225-6401
    January 17, 2013




    Dear Mr. :

    Thank you for contacting my office regarding your concerns over the possibility of increased gun regulation in light of the recent tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut. Your views are very important, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them with me.

    When I heard about the tragedy that took place in Connecticut on December 14, 2012, I was shocked and deeply saddened over this senseless attack on innocent children, teachers and school administrators. As a father, I cannot begin to imagine the horror that those families are going through, as they grieve the loss of their children and loved ones. My thoughts and prayers are with all of them during this difficult time.

    Like most Americans, I am horrified by these crimes. The tragedy in Newtown has, once again, brought the debate over our Second Amendment rights to the forefront and has renewed assertions that more restrictive guns laws would have prevented the tragedy in Newtown and other violent crimes.

    As a strong defender of the Second Amendment, I will always fight to secure the right of law-abiding citizens to purchase and bear personal firearms. I believe that the best way to prevent acts of violence is to resolutely enforce our criminal laws and to give our citizens proper guidance and training so that they are familiar with firearms and prepared to defend themselves should the need arise. I am working hard with local school officials and sheriff’s departments to figure out what additional measures we can take to ensure that our schools are as safe as possible.

    The bottom line is that criminals and individuals who intend to do harm to others are not deterred by additional rules and regulations prohibiting gun ownership. Restricting the ability of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves and their families against harm by enacting strict gun-control laws would only further expose the innocent to violent crime.

    Again, thank you for contacting my office. Your feedback and suggestions are always welcome. It is an honor to serve as your United States Congressman. If you have not done so already, please visit my website – http://www.meadows.house.gov/ – and sign up for my eNewsletter.

    Sincerely,
    Mark Meadows
    Member of Congress

    MM/pf
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  8. #668
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    ...What I'm advocating, as well as many opposed to this new round of gun control measures, is getting the guns out of the hands of people who aren't supposed to have them, or shouldn't have them and leaving the law-abiding gun owners alone...
    Wouldn't making the sale of those guns illegal reduce the number that is available for criminals to steal? Can you guarantee that once a law abiding gun owner has the gun, it will never fall into a criminals hands or that law abiding person turns violent?

    If they don't have that particular gun in the first place....it can't be stolen, it can't be used to commit a crime, it can't be misused.

    And that one, miniscule percentage, rare occurrence act....has been stopped.

    Or....we can sit here and just hope it doesn't happen again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    I am so sick hearing that falsehood repeated as if it were gospel.

    Firearms are designed to accurately propel a projectile. They have multiple purposes and for the majority in civilian use that purpose isn't killing. Of those used for that purpose, the vast majority are used to kill game.

    If you object to that you'd better be vegan...

    How much big game is taken down with pistols?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't making the sale of those guns illegal reduce the number that is available for criminals to steal? Can you guarantee that once a law abiding gun owner has the gun, it will never fall into a criminals hands or that law abiding person turns violent?

    If they don't have that particular gun in the first place....it can't be stolen, it can't be used to commit a crime, it can't be misused.

    And that one, miniscule percentage, rare occurrence act....has been stopped.

    Or....we can sit here and just hope it doesn't happen again.
    So, according to you, the sheer possiblilty of one of my firearms being stolen and used for a crime by a criminal (who could have easily obtained firearms in one of the multiple other illegal ways) is justificaton for me not being able to have it? Even thought you have been presented with the fact that a very small amount of gun crime is actually commited with the weapons in question? Typical liberal; ignore all facts on a subject and run around them.

    You sound like a textbook Socialist. Do you economic theories mirror yours of gun control?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't making the sale of those guns illegal reduce the number that is available for criminals to steal? Can you guarantee that once a law abiding gun owner has the gun, it will never fall into a criminals hands or that law abiding person turns violent?

    If they don't have that particular gun in the first place....it can't be stolen, it can't be used to commit a crime, it can't be misused.

    And that one, miniscule percentage, rare occurrence act....has been stopped.

    Or....we can sit here and just hope it doesn't happen again.
    By that argument we'd need to make computers illegal as they certainly allow people to research numerous ways to build bombs, chemical suicides, make drugs, etc, etc... AAfter all if it saves just one human life it'll be worth it right? Your advocating a life over any right? Nearly the opposite of the foundation this country was built on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    How much big game is taken down with pistols?
    I can only speak for Minnesota, but here it's fairly common for individuals to hunt big game with a pistol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't making the sale of those guns illegal reduce the number that is available for criminals to steal? Can you guarantee that once a law abiding gun owner has the gun, it will never fall into a criminals hands or that law abiding person turns violent?

    If they don't have that particular gun in the first place....it can't be stolen, it can't be used to commit a crime, it can't be misused.

    And that one, miniscule percentage, rare occurrence act....has been stopped.

    Or....we can sit here and just hope it doesn't happen again.
    Again with the Utopian dream world beliefs.
    Punish the law abiding citizen because as far as you are concerned it's ok for criminals to break the law.
    Again, quit speaking out from under your mother's skirt and show me any proof that bans or restrictions have been successful from preventing the criminal element from being just that, criminal. It's been shown on here numerous times that knives, and even hands are used in more murders. You honestly believe that will all suddenly stop because guns are no longer available?
    Go and check England and Australia's crime rate since their gun bans. Let us know what you find.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't making the sale of those guns illegal reduce the number that is available for criminals to steal? Can you guarantee that once a law abiding gun owner has the gun, it will never fall into a criminals hands or that law abiding person turns violent?
    Can you guarantee that criminals won't get there hands on guns through other channels? Nope. Invalid argument. Black market, hell if you're a Mexican drug cartel our government will give you guns, and you can make an AK-47 out of a shovel.

    There's no way to eliminate the firearms in a fashion that will drastically reduce crimes and murders committed with them. The deeper issue needs to be addressed. Harsher penalties for gun crimes, no lax or parole for gun crimes, re-evaluate the mental health system, and educate law abiding citizens on the benefits of carrying a firearm, instead of scaring them into thinking they are evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I can only speak for Minnesota, but here it's fairly common for individuals to hunt big game with a pistol.
    Same in Northern Wisconsin. Pistols are a very common firearm used for bear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't making the sale of those guns illegal reduce the number that is available for criminals to steal? Can you guarantee that once a law abiding gun owner has the gun, it will never fall into a criminals hands or that law abiding person turns violent?

    If they don't have that particular gun in the first place....it can't be stolen, it can't be used to commit a crime, it can't be misused.

    And that one, miniscule percentage, rare occurrence act....has been stopped.

    Or....we can sit here and just hope it doesn't happen again.
    Well, if they are law-abiding, yes I can guarantee it. At the point they transfer those guns illegally, they become criminals.

    I do love the naivity of those who think a gun ban is going to do anything. It's been proven- gun bans do not stop gun violence.

    We have gun laws running out of our ears, yet criminals still get them. Hell, our gov't gives them to the criminals at times (Fast and Furious)! How exactly is the gov't going to keep guns from coming into the country from Mexico, Canada, or anywhere else for that matter. They can't even keep illegal immigrants and drugs out of our borders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    How much big game is taken down with pistols?
    Quite a bit, actually. Many people who hunt dangerous game will keep a sidearm on them as a back-up.

    There are a lot of people who even hunt small game with pistols.

    Not that it matters, as the SCOTUS and other federal courts have ruled handguns are protected by the Second Amendment. Illinois just learned that little lesson.
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    Yup, you guys are right. We need more guns. Heck, if everyone had one...there'd be no killings.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Yup, you guys are right. We need more guns. Heck, if everyone had one...there'd be no killings.
    Well the fact that law abiding citizens weren't allowed guns in Chicago certainly didn't stop the murders there now did it?

    Funny how little things like that get ignored. Illinois has no concealed carry and Chicago had and still has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and yet murders have been on the rise. How can that be? The anti-gunners say if we limit the amount of guns law abiing citizens can have gun crime and murders will go down. It seems that isn't always so.

    I can't wait to see how you spin this one Bones...By the way, my statistics come right from the FBI. So I can prove what I am saying here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Yup, you guys are right. We need more guns. Heck, if everyone had one...there'd be no killings.
    So getting piszy because we're presenting you with facts, and then conceding that we're right in a facetious manner is the solution then, eh?

    Catch covered it pretty well in his last post. Law abiding citizens don't use they're firearms for killings. And once they do, or contribute their firearms to such a heinous act, they are no longer law abiding citizens. And if you think that law abiding citizens willfully buying and handing over firearms to criminals is the problem, you're mistaken. Theft, black market sales, and like I stated before and Catch stated, if you're a Mexican drug cartel the US Gov. will hand you weapons. There's always going to be intentional murders and killings, with guns, regardless of the laws that are passed.

    It's time to stop this ridiculousness, and get to the root of the issue. Mental health issues, and quite honestly, the **** poor parenting style that this society has adopted. (And that's coming from someone who grew up in the "**** poor parenting" age. Fortunately, I had parents (or a parent, could be debated lol) that knew how to keep me in line.

    And again, looking at the FBI statistics, even with guns in the hands of essentially everyone, violent crime and gun related deaths are down over the last 20 years, so the guns obviously aren't the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Well the fact that law abiding citizens weren't allowed guns in Chicago certainly didn't stop the murders there now did it?

    Funny how little things like that get ignored. Illinois has no concealed carry and Chicago had and still has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and yet murders have been on the rise. How can that be? The anti-gunners say if we limit the amount of guns law abiing citizens can have gun crime and murders will go down. It seems that isn't always so.

    I can't wait to see how you spin this one Bones...By the way, my statistics come right from the FBI. So I can prove what I am saying here.
    I like your method of getting facts. Evidently Bones is using the method whereby if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. Standard liberal modus operandi.
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