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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    How anyone could support stricter gun control laws from the same government who willingly allowed countless numbers of ACTUAL assault weapons to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels I will never know.

    And why do I need "wanna be GI Joe guns" you say? Because I said so. Unless I do something illegal with them that is all the answer you need.
    It is funny, in a sad hypocritical way, how some people want to curtail our legal activity, but would go insane and crap a circle around themselves if we tried to take away their legal hobby or possessions.
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    My "hobbies" are not used for mass murder.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    God Bless the children, the adults, and the families and friends of those that were murdered. Christmas for all involved, is now a nightmare.

    I for one, am against any kind of gun control. Whether it be the type of weapon, or how many rounds it holds in the mag. It really doesn't matter. What matters is, is two fold....

    1. Mental health facilities have been being shut down from the local level to the State level for the last 10 or more years. Even the private facilities have had to shut down because of no private or public funding's. This is bad, really bad. If they can't be housed and medicated, then they are out there, running in the streets.

    2. The media... probably tied to number 1. Everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame. How do you do that?? Get mad at your teacher, parent, sibling, the bully that beats you up, etc. Go on a shooting spree, and shoot the most innocent victims you can. While the media doesn't try to glorify the F*Tard, it does.

    How to fix it, is extremely complicated. One way to do it, or a good start, would be to drug test all those on welfare. Have them tested twice a month for drugs, unannounced. You have 24 hours to be at location Z for a drug screening. If you fail, your dropped from welfare. Then take that money and re-institute it to a national mental health care system. If Obama-Care was so perfect, then this wouldn't be an issue.

    I don't have an answer or solution to the mass killings of civilians or innocent people. If I did, I'd run for office. But I do know, regulating guns, weapons, what have you, is NOT going to eliminate the problem.

    Hope you all had a very, Merry Christmas with your families.

    FM1
    Other countries have all the same things you describe in addition to playing violent video games without having their citizens go on mass murder rampages.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-26-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    How anyone could support stricter gun control laws from the same government who willingly allowed countless numbers of ACTUAL assault weapons to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels I will never know.
    Not relevant to the topic of the mentally ill shooting up a group of 6 y/o's.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    And why do I need "wanna be GI Joe guns" you say? Because I said so. Unless I do something illegal with them that is all the answer you need.
    Not a good reason to own something that is so potentially deadly. I could say that about any number of things I would like to play with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My "hobbies" are not used for mass murder.
    MY HOBBY, practiced by me, does not involve mass murder. Neither does the hobby or sport of shooting done by millions every year. Inanimate objects are incapable of any action on their own. The actions of criminals and the mentally ill are not the norm by any standard.

    I would suggest that smoking is a far more dangerous activity carried out by people every day. especially when you add in an average of 49,400 innocent victims fall prey to second hand smoke every year. Even vehicle accidents killed more. Maybe we should ban cigarettes and cars...and since alcohol killed over 10,000 maybe we should ban that too. Frankly, I couldn't care less if they banned all use of tobacco, and I drink so little and so infrequently that I wouldn't miss alcohol either. HELL's YEAH!! BAN THEM BOTH!! Together they kill about 15 times more than guns do!!

    Gun deaths 2011 31, 347

    Drunk driving deaths in 2010 10, 228

    Smoking related deaths per year average 443,000 with 49,400 dying from second hand smoke

    Vehicle accidents in 2010 was 32,367
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Now the media thinks they are exempt from the law when it comes to finding ways to prove the evils of the gun.
    What's the odds they come out with a statement about their 1st amendment rights?


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ntcmp=trending
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    MY HOBBY, practiced by me, does not involve mass murder. Neither does the hobby or sport of shooting done by millions every year. Inanimate objects are incapable of any action on their own. The actions of criminals and the mentally ill are not the norm by any standard.

    I would suggest that smoking is a far more dangerous activity carried out by people every day. especially when you add in an average of 49,400 innocent victims fall prey to second hand smoke every year. Even vehicle accidents killed more. Maybe we should ban cigarettes and cars...and since alcohol killed over 10,000 maybe we should ban that too. Frankly, I couldn't care less if they banned all use of tobacco, and I drink so little and so infrequently that I wouldn't miss alcohol either. HELL's YEAH!! BAN THEM BOTH!! Together they kill about 15 times more than guns do!!

    Gun deaths 2011 31, 347

    Drunk driving deaths in 2010 10, 228

    Smoking related deaths per year average 443,000 with 49,400 dying from second hand smoke

    Vehicle accidents in 2010 was 32,367
    I've always been of the opinion that statistics for gun violence should be seperated to show how many where by legally-owned firearms and how many were not. But, I'm sure that'd paint a totally different picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Now the media thinks they are exempt from the law when it comes to finding ways to prove the evils of the gun.
    What's the odds they come out with a statement about their 1st amendment rights?
    There are significant restrictions to the 1st Amendment. Try running through an airport yelling, "I'VE GOT A BOMB!" and then tell us if nothing happens.

    That's not a good analogy unless you are advocating for tighter gun restrictions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    There are significant restrictions to the 1st Amendment. Try running through an airport yelling, "I'VE GOT A BOMB!" and then tell us if nothing happens.

    That's not a good analogy unless you are advocating for tighter gun restrictions.
    It's a great analogy, as it was a news story being sensationalized for a bias agenda. I stated in my thread: "Now the media thinks they are exempt from the law when it comes to finding ways to prove the evils of the gun. What's the odds they come out with a statement about their 1st amendment rights? "
    That statement is a relevant, focused point all within the context the story. To add , alter, or embellish my statement to fit one's personal agenda is at best, disingenuous.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Other countries have all the same things you describe in addition to playing violent video games without having their citizens go on mass murder rampages.
    Sorry Sir Spam-a-lot, but I didn't mention other Nations. If I would have, it would have embarrassed both of us. Especially when it comes treating those with mental illnesses. I could go on, but I would make you look pretty foolish.

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    In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,

    Accidental discharge 851
    Suicide 19,766
    Homicide 11,101
    Undetermined Intent 222

    Total: At least 31940 people died from gun injuries in 2011.

    Realistically, if you go by deaths as a result of violence, the number is around 11,323.

    FM1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My "hobbies" are not used for mass murder.
    Neither are mine.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,

    Accidental discharge 851
    Suicide 19,766
    Homicide 11,101
    Undetermined Intent 222

    Total: At least 31940 people died from gun injuries in 2011.

    Realistically, if you go by deaths as a result of violence, the number is around 11,323.

    FM1
    I'm not a statistician by any means, but it seems to me those numbers don't indicate a gun problem so much as they indicate a mental health problem.

    I'm curious how many of those 11K homocides were by legally-owned weapons. My bet is less than a third.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I'm not a statistician by any means, but it seems to me those numbers don't indicate a gun problem so much as they indicate a mental health problem.

    I'm curious how many of those 11K homocides were by legally-owned weapons. My bet is less than a third.
    I wonder how many of those homicides were legitimate (law enforcement shootings / ruled self defense).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My "hobbies" are not used for mass murder.
    Possibly the most ignorant comment of the entire thread. This equates to someone saying the hobby of gardening was responsible for OKC since McVeigh used fertilizer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't change my mind at all. I still see no need for a person to own a semi-automatic gun.

    In case you care....this incident did not cause me to have that belief.
    Define a Semi-automatic, In your own words, and tell me how Banning strictly that type of a Firearm Would have any impact on this situation, Or Any situation involving a firearm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Because they are typically used to commit mass murder.
    Bull****, Show me the Facts that back up that statement, Don't worry i will Wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Overwhelming urge to possess numerous wannabe GI Joe guns = paranoid schizophrenia or small penis... or both.
    Really??? Here i thought I was simply collecting a Rifle from each major conflict in the hopes of keeping a piece of history alive. I guess I better go have my Head and Dick examined because i am sure that That statement has to be true about every gun owner, every where, at any time, any place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    Define a Semi-automatic, In your own words, and tell me how Banning strictly that type of a Firearm Would have any impact on this situation, Or Any situation involving a firearm.
    A weapon that automatically expends a spent cartridge, reloads a fresh cartridge, and requiring a trigger be pulled to discharge the recently loaded fresh cartridge that was loaded via storage in a spent magazine.

    I'm not opposed to folks owning semi-auto weapons. I just believe there should be a 10 round limit on magazine capacity. I've stated repeatedly that I believe in the 2nd Amendment. But it is not an absolute. Other countries allow firearms ownership and don't seem to have the problem of mass shootings as the US. Perhaps it is time to look at what they are doing and adopt it here. Wouldn't you agree? Or should we just accept the fact that innocent people dying as a result of these acts is just another price of being an American.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    Bull****, Show me the Facts that back up that statement, Don't worry i will Wait.
    Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora theater, Giffords shooting, Stockton shooting, Luby's massacre, and now Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few. All done with semi-auto weapons.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-28-2012 at 11:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    A weapon that automatically expends a spent cartridge, reloads a fresh cartridge, and requiring a trigger be pulled to discharge the recently loaded fresh cartridge that was loaded via storage in a spent magazine.

    I'm not opposed to folks owning semi-auto weapons. I just believe there should be a 10 round limit on magazine capacity. I've stated repeatedly that I believe in the 2nd Amendment. But it is not an absolute. Other countries allow firearms ownership and don't seem to have the problem of mass shootings as the US. Perhaps it is time to look at what they are doing and adopt it here. Wouldn't you agree? Or should we just accept the fact that innocent people dying as a result of these acts is just another price of being an American.


    Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora theater, Giffords shooting, Stockton shooting, Luby's massacre, and now Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few. All done with semi-auto weapons.
    You obviously know absolutely nothing about guns. A ten round magazine will have ZERO (zlich, nada, nothing) effect on a persons ability to shoot large amounts of rounds in a given amount of time. The major factor influencing the number of rounds a certain weapon can fire is the cooling rate of the barrel. Given an unlimited supply of ten round magazines, a shooter can fire at a fairly high rate until the barrel gets too hot and a round becomes lodged in the barrel. It only takes 2 seconds or less to reload a magazine. And speaking of magazines, a 30 round magazine is NOT a "high capacity" magazine, they are STANDARD for AR and AK type rifles. A "high capacity" magazine is generally between 50-100 rounds. VERY FEW people have or ever use them because A: they are VERY expensive, and B: they are very heavy, making them very impractical.
    You evidently also don't know that even shotguns and revolvers can be speed loaded very quickly, giving them an ability to be rapidly fired for an extended time. Again, magazine size means nothing.
    As for Columbine, Harris and Klebold carried a semi-automatic TEC-9, they also carried Sawed off shotguns, (A FEDERAL gun crime), a Hi-Point 995 Carbine with a [B]TEN ROUND MAGAZINE, MOST OF THE ROUNDS FIRED AT COLUMBINE WERE FIRED FROM THIS WEAPON,[B] and almost a HUNDRED explosive devices.
    Timothy McVey killed more people than all the mass school shootings from Columbine to Newtown COMBINED, and he never pulled a trigger once. And in China, several men have attacked and killed school kids with knives.
    Guns are just a tool.
    Last edited by johnsb; 12-28-2012 at 03:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Overwhelming urge to possess numerous wannabe GI Joe guns = paranoid schizophrenia or small penis... or both.
    That's probably one of the most ignorant statements in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    You obviously know absolutely nothing about guns. A ten round magazine will have ZERO (zlich, nada, nothing) effect on a persons ability to shoot large amounts of rounds in a given amount of time.
    I would disagree. A lesser capacity magazine gives the targets still alive time to react while the shooter reloads. The bystanders that wrestled down Jared Loughner (the Gifford's shooting) were able to do so when his 30 round magazine was empty and he reloaded. Had the magazine been only ten rounds, that act could have been potentially performed earlier. And since you stated a ten round magazine has ZERO effect, then you should have no problem enforcing a ban on magazines that can hold more than ten rounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Timothy McVey killed more people than all the mass school shootings from Columbine to Newtown COMBINED, and he never pulled a trigger once.
    And there are significant regulations relating to the sale of explosives or components or explosives.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    And in China, several men have attacked and killed school kids with knives.
    Guns are just a tool.
    And all those children lived.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-28-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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    Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora theater, Giffords shooting, Stockton shooting, Luby's massacre, and now Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few. All done with semi-auto weapons.
    Yes, but lets bring forth the whole truth:

    Guns illegally obtained and illegally used
    Numerous laws in terms of legal possession violated
    Proven history of mental instability of the shooter(s) prior to the incident
    Numerous missed signs concerning the individual(s) proceeding the shootings
    More important, the vast majority of these shooting took place in areas, especially schools, that the shooters knew, with out a doubt, there would be absolutely no resistance or fear of fire arms used for self defense. Why, because the law abiding gun owners did just what the laws says, the did not bring their guns into places that expressly prohibit them.
    Funny how the shooters, breaking numerous laws, get a pass on this fact? Oh, that's right, it's the guns fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And all those children lived.
    In one attack they lived.

    In 2010, 24 killed and 73 injured in six China elementary schools, all with blades.

    Guns aren't the problem, they're just the tool of the maniac.

    Aside from that, what good are gun bans/laws? A man killed two firefighters and injured two others with weapons obtained illegally. Adam Lanza stole the guns he used in Newtown, thus obtaining them illegally. Harris and Klebold vilated numerous gun laws in obtaining the weapons they used.

    Sounds like a helluva idea making more laws for the law-abiding public to follow while the criminal element does as they please.

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    Here is a start, why not make the crime of providing a gun to a known felon or other that is not legally able to have a gun that is used in the commission of a crime be the same as that crime?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/28...est=latestnews

    From the article: "The federal charges carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment, a fine of $250,000 or both."
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