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Thread: 18 Children Dead in CT Mass Shooting

  1. #161
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,

    Accidental discharge 851
    Suicide 19,766
    Homicide 11,101
    Undetermined Intent 222

    Total: At least 31940 people died from gun injuries in 2011.

    Realistically, if you go by deaths as a result of violence, the number is around 11,323.

    FM1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My "hobbies" are not used for mass murder.
    Neither are mine.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,

    Accidental discharge 851
    Suicide 19,766
    Homicide 11,101
    Undetermined Intent 222

    Total: At least 31940 people died from gun injuries in 2011.

    Realistically, if you go by deaths as a result of violence, the number is around 11,323.

    FM1
    I'm not a statistician by any means, but it seems to me those numbers don't indicate a gun problem so much as they indicate a mental health problem.

    I'm curious how many of those 11K homocides were by legally-owned weapons. My bet is less than a third.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I'm not a statistician by any means, but it seems to me those numbers don't indicate a gun problem so much as they indicate a mental health problem.

    I'm curious how many of those 11K homocides were by legally-owned weapons. My bet is less than a third.
    I wonder how many of those homicides were legitimate (law enforcement shootings / ruled self defense).

  5. #165
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My "hobbies" are not used for mass murder.
    Possibly the most ignorant comment of the entire thread. This equates to someone saying the hobby of gardening was responsible for OKC since McVeigh used fertilizer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Wouldn't change my mind at all. I still see no need for a person to own a semi-automatic gun.

    In case you care....this incident did not cause me to have that belief.
    Define a Semi-automatic, In your own words, and tell me how Banning strictly that type of a Firearm Would have any impact on this situation, Or Any situation involving a firearm.
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    Forum Member Bushwhacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Because they are typically used to commit mass murder.
    Bull****, Show me the Facts that back up that statement, Don't worry i will Wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Overwhelming urge to possess numerous wannabe GI Joe guns = paranoid schizophrenia or small penis... or both.
    Really??? Here i thought I was simply collecting a Rifle from each major conflict in the hopes of keeping a piece of history alive. I guess I better go have my Head and Dick examined because i am sure that That statement has to be true about every gun owner, every where, at any time, any place.
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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    Define a Semi-automatic, In your own words, and tell me how Banning strictly that type of a Firearm Would have any impact on this situation, Or Any situation involving a firearm.
    A weapon that automatically expends a spent cartridge, reloads a fresh cartridge, and requiring a trigger be pulled to discharge the recently loaded fresh cartridge that was loaded via storage in a spent magazine.

    I'm not opposed to folks owning semi-auto weapons. I just believe there should be a 10 round limit on magazine capacity. I've stated repeatedly that I believe in the 2nd Amendment. But it is not an absolute. Other countries allow firearms ownership and don't seem to have the problem of mass shootings as the US. Perhaps it is time to look at what they are doing and adopt it here. Wouldn't you agree? Or should we just accept the fact that innocent people dying as a result of these acts is just another price of being an American.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    Bull****, Show me the Facts that back up that statement, Don't worry i will Wait.
    Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora theater, Giffords shooting, Stockton shooting, Luby's massacre, and now Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few. All done with semi-auto weapons.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-28-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    A weapon that automatically expends a spent cartridge, reloads a fresh cartridge, and requiring a trigger be pulled to discharge the recently loaded fresh cartridge that was loaded via storage in a spent magazine.

    I'm not opposed to folks owning semi-auto weapons. I just believe there should be a 10 round limit on magazine capacity. I've stated repeatedly that I believe in the 2nd Amendment. But it is not an absolute. Other countries allow firearms ownership and don't seem to have the problem of mass shootings as the US. Perhaps it is time to look at what they are doing and adopt it here. Wouldn't you agree? Or should we just accept the fact that innocent people dying as a result of these acts is just another price of being an American.


    Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora theater, Giffords shooting, Stockton shooting, Luby's massacre, and now Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few. All done with semi-auto weapons.
    You obviously know absolutely nothing about guns. A ten round magazine will have ZERO (zlich, nada, nothing) effect on a persons ability to shoot large amounts of rounds in a given amount of time. The major factor influencing the number of rounds a certain weapon can fire is the cooling rate of the barrel. Given an unlimited supply of ten round magazines, a shooter can fire at a fairly high rate until the barrel gets too hot and a round becomes lodged in the barrel. It only takes 2 seconds or less to reload a magazine. And speaking of magazines, a 30 round magazine is NOT a "high capacity" magazine, they are STANDARD for AR and AK type rifles. A "high capacity" magazine is generally between 50-100 rounds. VERY FEW people have or ever use them because A: they are VERY expensive, and B: they are very heavy, making them very impractical.
    You evidently also don't know that even shotguns and revolvers can be speed loaded very quickly, giving them an ability to be rapidly fired for an extended time. Again, magazine size means nothing.
    As for Columbine, Harris and Klebold carried a semi-automatic TEC-9, they also carried Sawed off shotguns, (A FEDERAL gun crime), a Hi-Point 995 Carbine with a [B]TEN ROUND MAGAZINE, MOST OF THE ROUNDS FIRED AT COLUMBINE WERE FIRED FROM THIS WEAPON,[B] and almost a HUNDRED explosive devices.
    Timothy McVey killed more people than all the mass school shootings from Columbine to Newtown COMBINED, and he never pulled a trigger once. And in China, several men have attacked and killed school kids with knives.
    Guns are just a tool.
    Last edited by johnsb; 12-28-2012 at 02:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Overwhelming urge to possess numerous wannabe GI Joe guns = paranoid schizophrenia or small penis... or both.
    That's probably one of the most ignorant statements in this thread.
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  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    You obviously know absolutely nothing about guns. A ten round magazine will have ZERO (zlich, nada, nothing) effect on a persons ability to shoot large amounts of rounds in a given amount of time.
    I would disagree. A lesser capacity magazine gives the targets still alive time to react while the shooter reloads. The bystanders that wrestled down Jared Loughner (the Gifford's shooting) were able to do so when his 30 round magazine was empty and he reloaded. Had the magazine been only ten rounds, that act could have been potentially performed earlier. And since you stated a ten round magazine has ZERO effect, then you should have no problem enforcing a ban on magazines that can hold more than ten rounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Timothy McVey killed more people than all the mass school shootings from Columbine to Newtown COMBINED, and he never pulled a trigger once.
    And there are significant regulations relating to the sale of explosives or components or explosives.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    And in China, several men have attacked and killed school kids with knives.
    Guns are just a tool.
    And all those children lived.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-28-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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    Columbine, VA Tech, Aurora theater, Giffords shooting, Stockton shooting, Luby's massacre, and now Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few. All done with semi-auto weapons.
    Yes, but lets bring forth the whole truth:

    Guns illegally obtained and illegally used
    Numerous laws in terms of legal possession violated
    Proven history of mental instability of the shooter(s) prior to the incident
    Numerous missed signs concerning the individual(s) proceeding the shootings
    More important, the vast majority of these shooting took place in areas, especially schools, that the shooters knew, with out a doubt, there would be absolutely no resistance or fear of fire arms used for self defense. Why, because the law abiding gun owners did just what the laws says, the did not bring their guns into places that expressly prohibit them.
    Funny how the shooters, breaking numerous laws, get a pass on this fact? Oh, that's right, it's the guns fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And all those children lived.
    In one attack they lived.

    In 2010, 24 killed and 73 injured in six China elementary schools, all with blades.

    Guns aren't the problem, they're just the tool of the maniac.

    Aside from that, what good are gun bans/laws? A man killed two firefighters and injured two others with weapons obtained illegally. Adam Lanza stole the guns he used in Newtown, thus obtaining them illegally. Harris and Klebold vilated numerous gun laws in obtaining the weapons they used.

    Sounds like a helluva idea making more laws for the law-abiding public to follow while the criminal element does as they please.

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    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Here is a start, why not make the crime of providing a gun to a known felon or other that is not legally able to have a gun that is used in the commission of a crime be the same as that crime?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/28...est=latestnews

    From the article: "The federal charges carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment, a fine of $250,000 or both."
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Here is a start, why not make the crime of providing a gun to a known felon or other that is not legally able to have a gun that is used in the commission of a crime be the same as that crime?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/28...est=latestnews

    From the article: "The federal charges carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment, a fine of $250,000 or both."
    10 years? WTF? I like your idea better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Yes, but lets bring forth the whole truth:

    Guns illegally obtained and illegally used
    Numerous laws in terms of legal possession violated
    Proven history of mental instability of the shooter(s) prior to the incident
    Numerous missed signs concerning the individual(s) proceeding the shootings
    More important, the vast majority of these shooting took place in areas, especially schools, that the shooters knew, with out a doubt, there would be absolutely no resistance or fear of fire arms used for self defense. Why, because the law abiding gun owners did just what the laws says, the did not bring their guns into places that expressly prohibit them.
    Funny how the shooters, breaking numerous laws, get a pass on this fact? Oh, that's right, it's the guns fault.
    No, not the guns fault. But making the guns less available and less common....would HELP.

    Again, just 1 piece of the puzzle.


    PS - 2 of those shootings occurred in places where it was known there was armed security. The shooters apparently didn't care about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    ...
    Guns aren't the problem, they're just the tool of the maniac.
    ...
    So why not work to get rid of that tool? If it stops 1 person....isn't that a good thing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    No, not the guns fault. But making the guns less available and less common....would HELP.

    Again, just 1 piece of the puzzle.


    PS - 2 of those shootings occurred in places where it was known there was armed security. The shooters apparently didn't care about that.
    And a ban or extreme gun controls is going to prevent these if that's the case? What makes you think they will care about that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Yes, but lets bring forth the whole truth:

    Guns illegally obtained and illegally used
    In most of those cases, the original purchase of the weapon was legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Numerous laws in terms of legal possession violated
    Proven history of mental instability of the shooter(s) prior to the incident
    Numerous missed signs concerning the individual(s) proceeding the shootings
    More important, the vast majority of these shooting took place in areas, especially schools, that the shooters knew, with out a doubt, there would be absolutely no resistance or fear of fire arms used for self defense. Why, because the law abiding gun owners did just what the laws says, the did not bring their guns into places that expressly prohibit them.
    Funny how the shooters, breaking numerous laws, get a pass on this fact? Oh, that's right, it's the guns fault.
    I'm not giving anyone a pass. What I do know is that other countries allow their citizens to own firearms and those same countries don't seem to have the same problem. We should think about studying what works in those countries and what doesn't. The current knee jerk reaction is to dismiss any type of firearm restriction as unnecessary.
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