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Thread: The Gun Control Debate.......Anybody else seeing this trend?

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    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ls_697732.html

    If this gun bill is such a great thing then why was it written to exempt the people writing it?

    If you can't lead by example, then you don't lead. You dictate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDMAXX View Post
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ls_697732.html

    If this gun bill is such a great thing then why was it written to exempt the people writing it?

    If you can't lead by example, then you don't lead. You dictate.
    Yeah, as they did with Obamacare.. Oh, wait..
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    And the debate comes to a screeching halt because you don't have facts you have assumptions, and talking points.

    You see I don't have a problem with someone having a differimg opinion than mine. What I have a problem with is people like you and SC talking about a topic you don't have any technical knowledge of and believing that is okay.
    Actually I halted my participation in the debate because it was very clear that there was no point in continuing with the discussion. You think fixing the criminal justice system and mental health system is sufficient. I disagree and think that doesn't fully address the problem. It's pretty clear that you and some others are not interested in discussing the subject of access in any fashion, so there's really no point in continuing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Can't be much fun when you aren't the one overpowering your opponents.
    Keep thinking that. You've yet to put forth any logical or rational belief as to why you need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    No melt down, just calling you out on your bull sh1t tactics. When you have nothing you pretend to be superior. You are funnier than heck to watch. You LIE, dance, sing, use smoke and mirrors, try diversions into other irrelevant topics, play games, and play the race card. You refuse to admit that even the most obvious stupidity and idiotic ploys on your part haven't worked here.

    No SC, if anyone is melting down it is you, your attempts to be a meaningful player in this debate get more and more pathetic with each post you make.

    Like I have said before it must just chafe your backside that the trying to shout people down simply isn't working here.
    The meltdown continues.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    To which he corrected himself above. Israel isn't the point. The fact is that there are some people that want to run roughshod over big tracks of the bill of rights. Regardless of how you feel about guns and the 2nd ammendment that should scare u because of its implications
    I agree. I've never advocated taking away ones' right to bear arms.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Actually I halted my participation in the debate because it was very clear that there was no point in It's pretty clear that you and some others are not interested in discussing the subject of access in any fashion, so there's really no point in continuing.
    I'd be willing to discuss the subject of access. The problem is I have yet to here a single proposal which does not start with the presumption of guilt. Show me an idea which avoids that and is also effective and I'd be more than happen to discuss it. Banning firearms by name, or cosmetic features does not do that, neither does limiting magazine capacity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Keep thinking that. You've yet to put forth any logical or rational belief as to why you need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.
    .
    First, you're arguing from the stance of presumptive guilt.. Ban everything unless you can prove you need it. That's not the way it works. The onus is on you to show that a ban would be effective, something we've shown you repeatedly that it isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Keep thinking that. You've yet to put forth any logical or rational belief as to why you need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

    Not true. The logical rational arguement for higher than 10 round magazines has been presented multiple times, you just choose to ignore it because you don't agree with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Actually I halted my participation in the debate because it was very clear that there was no point in continuing with the discussion. You think fixing the criminal justice system and mental health system is sufficient. I disagree and think that doesn't fully address the problem. It's pretty clear that you and some others are not interested in discussing the subject of access in any fashion, so there's really no point in continuing.
    The problem is you want to blame law abiding citizens and firearms manufacturers. I refuse to accept that as a viable beginning to any debate on stopping gun violence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Keep thinking that. You've yet to put forth any logical or rational belief as to why you need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.


    The meltdown continues.
    More non-answers. But then again that is what you are best at.

    If there is no logical reason for larger than 10 round capacity magazines then why do you support larger capacity magazines for law enforcement? Using your logic they should have no need for more than 10 rounds.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 01-27-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I agree. I've never advocated taking away ones' right to bear arms.
    As long as they are the arms you believe are okay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The problem is you want to blame law abiding citizens and firearms manufacturers. I refuse to accept that as a viable beginning to any debate on stopping gun violence.
    I agree that is no way to start a debate on gun violence, however I did no such thing. You have chosen to interpret some of what I wrote as blaming law abiding citizens and firearms manufacturers. I can't help it if that's what you took from it. I've tried to explain that wasn't the case, but for whatever reason you still think this way.

    We're basically on different pages and I don't see that changing, so I didn't see any reason to continue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    I'd be willing to discuss the subject of access. The problem is I have yet to here a single proposal which does not start with the presumption of guilt.
    Presumption of guilt for whom or what?

    Show me an idea which avoids that and is also effective and I'd be more than happen to discuss it. Banning firearms by name, or cosmetic features does not do that, neither does limiting magazine capacity.
    What this tells me is that you really aren't interested in an open and serious discussion on the matter. You aren't willing to discuss ideas if they start a certain way. You're basically only willing to discuss the matter after a "solution" has been vetted.

    If you were really serious about discussing "access", then you'd be willing to debate the merits of any idea proposed, especially those that you believe "won't work".

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    First, you're arguing from the stance of presumptive guilt.. Ban everything unless you can prove you need it. That's not the way it works. The onus is on you to show that a ban would be effective, something we've shown you repeatedly that it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    More non-answers. But then again that is what you are best at.

    If there is no logical reason for larger than 10 round capacity magazines then why do you support larger capacity magazines for law enforcement? Using your logic they should have no need for more than 10 rounds.
    Both of you have stated that changing magazines takes such a brief amount of time so as to not be an issue.

    The fun part, is that both of you supplied all the logic I needed to make my point.

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    As long as they are the arms you believe are okay.
    Which arms did I propose should not be allowed for private ownership.

    Once again you read something that isn't there. Please point to where I've stated any type of weapon not currently allowed by the law be restricted.

    Repeating a falsehood over and over doesn't one day make it true.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-27-2013 at 03:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I agree that is no way to start a debate on gun violence, however I did no such thing. You have chosen to interpret some of what I wrote as blaming law abiding citizens and firearms manufacturers. I can't help it if that's what you took from it. I've tried to explain that wasn't the case, but for whatever reason you still think this way.

    We're basically on different pages and I don't see that changing, so I didn't see any reason to continue.
    Yet here you are...fascinating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Which arms did I propose should not be allowed for private ownership.

    Once again you read something that isn't there. Please point to where I've stated any type of weapon not currently allowed by the law be restricted.

    Repeating a falsehood over and over doesn't one day make it true.
    You see it as a lie. I see it as you complete inability to even define the firearms you think you know enough to discuss.

    You are right though, I could never hope to lie at the professional level you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Presumption of guilt for whom or what?

    What this tells me is that you really aren't interested in an open and serious discussion on the matter. You aren't willing to discuss ideas if they start a certain way. You're basically only willing to discuss the matter after a "solution" has been vetted.

    If you were really serious about discussing "access", then you'd be willing to debate the merits of any idea proposed, especially those that you believe "won't work".
    Similarly this tells me that you are not willing to discuss areas of "access" where we might reach common ground. I don't believe total bans based on gun names or features or magazine size will work. I have provided facts that back that up. You may not agree but rather than bang our heads against that wall why not discuss other areas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Both of you have stated that changing magazines takes such a brief amount of time so as to not be an issue.

    I actually pity you and your unbelievable arrogance in refusing to discern the difference between a crazed gunman shooting unarmed civilians, including children, with little or no opposition, and a soldier in combat facing multiple enemy combatants trying to kill him. Obviously, if no one is shooting back at you it would be easier to change magazines more often. Do I need crayons and poster board so I can draw you a picture you might actualy understand?

    The fun part, is that both of you supplied all the logic I needed to make my point.

    No, as usual you are doing just what you accuse others of doing. You pick and choose what you read, how you interpret it, and then how you formulate your non-responsive answer to it. Standard liberal anti-gun tactics.

    Thanks.

    You are welcome. I don't mind at all making you look foolish.
    I can't wait for your next edition of silliness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I can't wait for your next edition of silliness.
    They are your words. Either magazine change time is important or it isn't. You move the goal line to suit your beliefs. I do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You see it as a lie. I see it as you complete inability to even define the firearms you think you know enough to discuss.

    You are right though, I could never hope to lie at the professional level you do.
    Just one flaw in your logic. Once again. I've never advocated eliminating any firearms from private ownership that are currently legal.

    A fact you continually ignore.
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    Hey SC, let me save you the effort of finding the difference between Goerge Bush's Wide Receiver program and Obama's Fast and Furious. Because you tried to say they were the same and in fact they weren't.


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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    They are your words. Either magazine change time is important or it isn't. You move the goal line to suit your beliefs. I do not.

    More of your fingers in your ears idiotic, childish responses.


    Just one flaw in your logic. Once again. I've never advocated eliminating any firearms from private ownership that are currently legal.

    So you claim...NOW.

    A fact you continually ignore.

    Says the master of "Firearms nomenclature isn't important to this conversation."
    Keep it coming, I laugh at you every time you post.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 01-27-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    You think fixing the criminal justice system and mental health system is sufficient. I disagree and think that doesn't fully address the problem.
    There has already been a 10 year experiment banning hi-cap mags and semi-autos with scary looking parts. It had no affect. Why not try something different this time instead of doing the same thing again and expecting different results? Let's fix the criminal justice system and mental health system. Let's tweak HIPPA so that major mental health issues get included in background checks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Just one flaw in your logic. Once again. I've never advocated eliminating any firearms from private ownership that are currently legal.
    Please state exactly what you DO advocate so that there can be no doubt. That should effectly end the tennis court volleying that is only wasting bandwidth. Currently, "assault style" rifles and hi-cap magazines are legal in the USA. Or are you throwing a curve ball and speaking of certain states that have banned them?

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    No it does not extend to them. Their role is different. We've been through this before.
    Their role is different, it's been ruled that they have no responsibility to the individual, only society as a whole.
    That's leaves it up to the average citizen. In my home, the responsibility is mine. With that in mind, I should at minimum have the ability to own magazines with at least the capacity law enforcement deems necessary for their safety and ability to do their job.
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