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Thread: The Gun Control Debate.......Anybody else seeing this trend?

  1. #301
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I already did. I used the same data that convinces you that more than 10 would make you safer.
    No you didn't. Your data did nothing to show why 10 is the right number to make everyone safer.

    Just be honest and admit you got that number from the original AWB, and from Feinstein's current proposal.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd


  2. #302
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    No you didn't. Your data did nothing to show why 10 is the right number to make everyone safer.

    Just be honest and admit you got that number from the original AWB, and from Feinstein's current proposal.
    Careful voyager, I sense a new race bait in the near future....
    Chenzo likes this.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  3. #303
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Careful voyager, I sense a new race bait in the near future....
    New is good. Honestly I'm getting sick of the same old non-answers so some new non-answers would be quite refreshing.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  4. #304
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    It is very fascinating. It was their collective experiences of tyranny that allow us the guaranteed freedoms we enjoy now. But to judge them now, with today's mindset, especially concerning slavery, a common practice, is insulting .
    Yet they practiced what they claim to abhor.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Martin Luther Ling JR. was a known adulterer and plagiarized parts of his doctoral dissertation, does that at anyway diminish his view or words?
    Was anyone's liberty denied as a result of those acts?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #305
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I am smiling. Laughing actually. First off, I'm impressed of the sudden wave of humanitarianism that now envelopes conservatives.
    There you go again, painting broad strokes with that "magic all-knowing SC" brush of yours.

    Who says everyone who opposes gun restrictions is a conservative? One of the biggest pro-gun guys I watch on youtube is a self proclaimed liberal.

    Who says gun control is as simple as left and right? Black and white?

    Oh, that's right... You do.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  6. #306
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I am smiling. Laughing actually. First off, I'm impressed of the sudden wave of humanitarianism that now envelopes conservatives.

    And there it is, because I disagree with you on this topic I am now a conservative. You are pathetically sad in your feeble attempts to win debating points. However, let's correct your misinformation shall we? I voted for Tammy Baldwin, one of the most liberal members of Congress who is now my Senator. I voted for Tom Barret form Governor, he's a Democrat. I voted for the Democratic candidates for Congress and for my state representatives. While I am almost ashamed to admit it now I even voted for Obama. So show me where any of that makes me a conservative. The problem with you ultra leftist is you have to suck the hook deep into your belly and go along with everything the party says or you get labeled an enemy and a conservative. Nice try, I do prefer being called an Independent and if there were better Independent Candidates that actually stood a chance I would support them in a heart beat.

    So nice troll work. Too bad it doesn't cover up your absolute and abysmal ignorance of anything about this topic. Well...other than the spoon fed talking points from the anti-gun crowd and your marching orders fro the left. Free your mind and try thinking for yourself. It may hurt at first but very soon it feels great.



    Secondly, I'm amused at your quest to deflect the topic away from what you perceive as gun control given that you supplied the ammo (no pun intended) to shoot down (no pun intended again) your own argument.

    Unlike you ,TROLL MASTER, I actually offered a serious, viable, solution to the infamous "Gun Show Loophole." All you offered was an Obama like killing business proposal, close gun shows. Do you have any idea how much money those shows bring into communities? Motel rooms, rental for the exhibit hall, people eating out, gas, extracurricular shopping, and entertainment money spent while the show is on. Yep, kill those guns shows because they can't possibly do any good at all for the economy.

    It's very clear you are a TROLL. And the worst kind because you can't even logically, rationally, or from a base of knowledge or exerience even discuss the topic. Nor do you even really want to.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  7. #307
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I already did. I used the same data that convinces you that more than 10 would make you safer.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkl0g...pQJV34N99ZbhzQ

    Did you watch this? The explanation for law abiding citizens to have normal capacity magazines, which includes those over 10 rounds, can't be stated any clearer.

    It should be easy for you to understand. It's a moving picture, with someone speaking to you. Or did you ignore that because it doesn't fit your agenda?

    Criminals don't give a $hit about the law, they are CRIMINALS because they don't FOLLOW THE LAW. How much simpler can that be explained? If you limit Joe Citizen to 10 rounds (7 in New York), while Carl Criminal still has 12, 14, 15, however many more in his magazine, how does that make anyone BUT Carl Criminal safer? Explain it to me. Explain to me how limiting law abiding citizens makes them safer from criminals who don't follow the ****ing law to begin with?

    Criminals LOVE gun control. It makes their job as criminals easier. Why is this so hard to understand? Are you THAT wrapped up in the Obama, far left propaganda that you can't think for yourself anymore?
    FyredUp and voyager9 like this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  8. #308
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    There you go again, painting broad strokes with that "magic all-knowing SC" brush of yours.

    Who says everyone who opposes gun restrictions is a conservative? One of the biggest pro-gun guys I watch on youtube is a self proclaimed liberal.

    Who says gun control is as simple as left and right? Black and white?

    Oh, that's right... You do.
    Especially since I've never advocated the elimination of gun ownership.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #309
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It's very clear you are a TROLL. And the worst kind because you can't even logically, rationally, or from a base of knowledge or exerience even discuss the topic. Nor do you even really want to.
    Reduced to name calling. The meltdown continues.

    Carry on.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #310
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkl0g...pQJV34N99ZbhzQ

    Did you watch this? The explanation for law abiding citizens to have normal capacity magazines, which includes those over 10 rounds, can't be stated any clearer.

    It should be easy for you to understand. It's a moving picture, with someone speaking to you. Or did you ignore that because it doesn't fit your agenda?

    Criminals don't give a $hit about the law, they are CRIMINALS because they don't FOLLOW THE LAW. How much simpler can that be explained? If you limit Joe Citizen to 10 rounds (7 in New York), while Carl Criminal still has 12, 14, 15, however many more in his magazine, how does that make anyone BUT Carl Criminal safer? Explain it to me. Explain to me how limiting law abiding citizens makes them safer from criminals who don't follow the ****ing law to begin with?

    Criminals LOVE gun control. It makes their job as criminals easier. Why is this so hard to understand? Are you THAT wrapped up in the Obama, far left propaganda that you can't think for yourself anymore?
    By the admission of those on this board with opinions that differ from mine, magazine capacity is not an issue since changing them is easily and quickly done.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  11. #311
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Criminals LOVE gun control. It makes their job as criminals easier.
    SPFDRum and Chenzo like this.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  12. #312
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    By the admission of those on this board with opinions that differ from mine, magazine capacity is not an issue since changing them is easily and quickly done.
    And you continually fail to understand the difference between a mass shooting in a gun free zone, where the time to reload is negligible because you have no armed opposition, and a home defense, business defense, or self defense situation where you're limited to 10 rounds and have to reload after that, and your opponent, or opponents, have 12, 15, 20 round magazines, because they are criminals and don't follow the law.

    You can't seem to grasp the difference between a magazine change with no opposition, and a magazine change when you have someone shooting back at you. Why? Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Why is that such a foreign concept to you? Disarming, or limiting, a law abiding citizens ability to defend themselves or others does not make a bit of difference in the criminal world. Need examples? The last AWB.
    FyredUp and voyager9 like this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  13. #313
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    By the admission of those on this board with opinions that differ from mine, magazine capacity is not an issue since changing them is easily and quickly done.
    As I said before. Until you can show how limiting magazines would stop these events then you have zero ability discuss what responsible gun owners want or need.

    Your assumption that quick mag changes somehow makes bans effective is flat out wrong. Demonstratively so.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  14. #314
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    By the admission of those on this board with opinions that differ from mine, magazine capacity is not an issue since changing them is easily and quickly done.
    If you're so for the restriction of magazine capacity, do you extend that to law enforcement? Does your local police department only get 10 round magazines? How about the FBI? Do they only get 10 round magazines? Why not? If you're restricting me to a 10 round magazine, then by your theory that means that anyone shooting at a police officer or an FBI agent would only have a 10 round magazine. So why don't they have to follow the same laws as the civilian population?

    Is there life more important than mine? I've already told you they have no duty to protect me or my family as individuals, but to protect society has a whole. So why are advocating restricting my ability to defend and protect myself from criminals who don't follow the law?

    (In case you didn't know, this is where your argument falls apart.)
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  15. #315
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    If you're so for the restriction of magazine capacity, do you extend that to law enforcement? Does your local police department only get 10 round magazines? How about the FBI? Do they only get 10 round magazines? Why not? If you're restricting me to a 10 round magazine, then by your theory that means that anyone shooting at a police officer or an FBI agent would only have a 10 round magazine. So why don't they have to follow the same laws as the civilian population?

    Is there life more important than mine? I've already told you they have no duty to protect me or my family as individuals, but to protect society has a whole. So why are advocating restricting my ability to defend and protect myself from criminals who don't follow the law?

    (In case you didn't know, this is where your argument falls apart.)
    I've already addressed this issue. Feel free to reread my posts.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  16. #316
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I've already addressed this issue. Feel free to reread my posts.
    Exactly. You think their life is more valuable than mine.

    You think that at 3am when you have 15 seconds to save your life and your family from an armed intruder that the cops will make it to your house in time to save you.

    You're delusional. You live in a fantasy world. You think that everything is going to be all rainbows and cupcakes, and if something turns to $hit, the police will be there to protect you. And that's fine, you go ahead and think that.

    However, I will live in the real world, and realize that I need to protect myself and my family, because I don't have the time to wait until the police show up.

    You go ahead, you have your 10 round magazines, and whatever other restrictions YOU believe are okay. But you leave my rights, and my ability to defend and protect my family the hell alone, because that is not YOUR responsibility, that is NOT the responsibility of the police department or sheriff's department (as upheld over 10 times by the SCOTUS), and guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the US Constitution.

    Just because you (or the government) believe some bull$hit bans will work, doesn't mean that I agree, and doesn't give you the right to infringe on my rights to effectively protect my family.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  17. #317
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Yet they practiced what they claim to abhor.
    Who is they? They abhorred slavery, yet some where slave owners? A common practice for the times? Or are you using the fact that some of the founding Fathers owned slaves so their writings and by proxy, the Deceleration of Independence and Bill of Rights are some how invalidated? Especially the 2nd amendment? As your make such a bold statement, I am to soon expect documentation of such, correct?

    Was anyone's liberty denied as a result of those acts?
    Who's liberty was denied? If you are claiming those that where slaves, you really need to quit applying modern era views and dogma on the past. Even for you, it's a stretch. I will add in fact, it was worse than that. These slaves at that time where not denied liberty, they where considered nothing more then property to be disposed of as such.
    You sure are quick to trample my liberties as a law abiding gun owner. Especially with your blind support of nonsensical bans and restrictions that have proven to be ineffective.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  18. #318
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I've already addressed this issue. Feel free to reread my posts.
    You keep using that word, addressed. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    The correct word, in your context is "deflected". Though other options are "glossed over", or "astro turf".

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9
    Your data did nothing to show why 10 is the right number to make everyone safer.

    Just be honest and admit you got that number from the original AWB, and from Feinstein's current proposal.
    Last edited by voyager9; 01-28-2013 at 03:47 PM.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
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  19. #319
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Exactly. You think their life is more valuable than mine.
    I said no such thing. Now you're just making things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    You think that at 3am when you have 15 seconds to save your life and your family from an armed intruder that the cops will make it to your house in time to save you.
    I don't think that at all. More importantly I've never stated I opposed the private ownership of firearms that are currently legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    You're delusional. You live in a fantasy world. You think that everything is going to be all rainbows and cupcakes, and if something turns to $hit, the police will be there to protect you. And that's fine, you go ahead and think that.
    You continue to make things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    However, I will live in the real world, and realize that I need to protect myself and my family, because I don't have the time to wait until the police show up.
    Same here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    You go ahead, you have your 10 round magazines, and whatever other restrictions YOU believe are okay. But you leave my rights, and my ability to defend and protect my family the hell alone, because that is not YOUR responsibility, that is NOT the responsibility of the police department or sheriff's department (as upheld over 10 times by the SCOTUS), and guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the US Constitution.
    According to those on this board, magazine capacity is not an issue since it takes so little time to change them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Just because you (or the government) believe some bull$hit bans will work, doesn't mean that I agree, and doesn't give you the right to infringe on my rights to effectively protect my family.
    I've never advocated any such thing.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  20. #320
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    You sure are quick to trample my liberties as a law abiding gun owner. Especially with your blind support of nonsensical bans and restrictions that have proven to be ineffective.
    Which liberties have I advocated for trampling?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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