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Thread: We're not firefighters anymore.

  1. #51
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    Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Ya. you are right, no names were mentioned, but we all know exactly who he meant.

    Ya want to keeping make attacks, fine. You have heard that most here are sick and tired of your, as well as other posters, crap regarding attacks but "the gang" keeps at it.

    Really doesn't matter to me but if you and your ilk want to keep dragging this place down, have at it.

    And no, I'm not going to sit back and let comments like that pass.
    A handful of people hardly consitute "most".

    I will comment whenever you denigrate this profession... too many people have paid for it with their lives, blood, sweat and tears. You seem to think that each and every person who does not "think" they way you do has a death wish... nothing could be further from the truth.

    You tilt at windmills whenever you think somebody has referred to you in a post, or posts a link to a story about firefighters and civliians stepping up and doing the rihgt thing while your "ilk" would let people die.

    I believe the decline of this forum started the day you became a member.
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    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  2. #52
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    Was on a station coverage for neighboring town yesterday...they were at a structure fire. While on coverage we went to 2 reported power lines sparking. Yup, we're all firefighters. They arrived at their scene after the PD arrived so I wouldn't call them first responders. We arrived before any PD....so we were the first responders.

    I don't know if I'm a semi-automatic firefighter, a fully-automatic firefighter, or an assault firefighter.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Byrne View Post
    Well then allow me to ask: Do we do this job for the people we serve or for recognition? If it is the people we serve then I could care less what they call me because I am willing to bet that the term they use has very high value in their eyes no matter what they call us.
    Assuming your actual name is Daniel, I would suspect that you expect people to refer to you as "Daniel" or possibly "Dan" or "Danny" and not "Bill", "Steve", "Larry" or "Fred". This would be very reasonable since none of those four are your name. We're pretty much talking about the same thing. For the vast majority of us, our job title is "firefighter" or includes "firefighter". Our departments' official names likely includes "fire" and/or "department" in some fashion. So why shouldn't we be bothered by people not using the proper titles?

    Wanting to be referred to by the proper title is not looking for recognition for doing this job.

    It's about society and values. We have to conform to what society wants, values, perceives, etc. That comes with uncomfortable changes but change we must to remain relevant in today's society. Today people to not perceive a threat from fire. They worry about natural disasters, terrorism, shooters, heart attacks, strokes, hazardous materials, etc. Who comes to save them when these threats hit "First Responders." So do we really want to compartmentalize ourselves to one category and one threat?

    I explain it to firefighters I talk to this way: if we do not change and conform to society and what they need we will become that FIRE extinguisher on the wall. It's ugly, no one really wants it, they try to hide it, invest only enough money they need to because they are required to have it... and the ONLY time people will give it any thought or any value is when there is a fire.....

    Keep that in mind when thinking about defining who we are and what we do.....
    Actually it's not about "society and values" and we don't have to "conform to what society, wants, values, perceives, etc." What you appear to be talking about is the evolution of an organization to meet the changing needs of the consumer and/or expanding what they have to offer to the consumer. The fire service in general has been doing this for quite sometime adding things like rescue services, EMS, hazmat response, fire inspection, fire prevention & education.

    I agree that we need to avoid being stagnant as an organization, however our core mission/responsibility is still fire suppression and fire suppression services are still very much relevant and needed in every community.

    Wanting to be referred to by our proper title is not trying to "compartmentalize ourselves to one category and one threat?"

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    As far as being "lumped in" with PD and non-fire EMS, they do the same job in the end that we do with an equal amount of risk, so I have no issues being part of that group.
    How do you figure we all have an equal amount of risk? I am unaware of any single role paramedics on our fire department being killed in the line of duty and we have more duty deaths than our police department even though they are almost three times our size. So how do you figure???
    slackjawedyokel likes this.
    Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.

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    Honestly do you expect the media to get the story right? Not much different than when they cover aircraft incidents, every single engine plane is a Cessna, every turboprop is a King Air, and every airliner is a Boeing. I could care less what some reporter decided to call us today.

    Now as for changing the name of a department, get real. Someone needs a hobby.

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    I've been called lots of things in this life. Some good, some bad.

    FIREFIGHTER is the only thing I've been called that summons a couple hundred years worth of history, tradition, pride and service to mankind. I still see the romance in the profession, and if you ask me calling us first responders waters all that down.
    Last edited by FF-Andy; 12-25-2012 at 01:44 AM.

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    An article about today's shooting in West Webster referred to "firefighters and first responders."

    We are the first to respond to emergencies (and many other situations, for that matter). The power people, the DPW, the highway department, the building inspectors, the tow-truck operators, what-have-you, generally show up after we've mitigated the problems. The police are in the same situation, as is EMS. As a group (and often as a team) we show up and fix what's broke so others can deal with the aftermath.

    It doesn't bother me a bit to be lumped in with police and EMS - we're all tools in the public safety toolbox, and while we don't generally cross the lines between our "crafts," we still have each other's backs when it's necessary.

    If a reporter is writing about my fire department, I'd prefer that he/she refer to my firefighters. I'm sure the police agencies feel the same. But when we're dealing with an emergency, we're all all the same team. We're responding first, before all the others.

    And yes, there have been deaths of medics. From everything to GSWs to aircraft crashes.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    Ok for all of you first responders, what do you drive to the scene when you are called and where do you keep them?

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    I'm a firefighter. you know why? because it sounds cool. no other reason.

    do I only fight fires? no. I do a lot more.

    As my former job, I was an EMT & Heavy Rescue Technician. I rode on the ambulance, I responded to medical emergencies. I took people to the hospital, and I "saved many a life." I also rode on the Heavy Rescue. We were 100% EMS based, not fire based at all, despite many of us having firefighter training. 6 Hyraulic tools preconnected, lots of cribbing, lots of ropes, lots of saws, lots of tools, confined space and trench rescue equipment. only thing we didn't have were airpacks. Who handled all the extrication? not the fire department. who picked up the shooting victims? not the fire department. who did CPR on the baby who wasn't breathing? not the fire department. Whenever there was a bad crash that made the paper, who got the credit? that's right, the fire department did all the work. Even when the EMS-Rescue was in the photo, even when the Rescue Captain was holding the tool in the phone, it was the fire department that saved the day. Who got support from the public, who was perceived as the ones who handled rescue operations, who got the funding for doing EMS, Rescue, and answer the call on the major events? that's right, not the ones who actually did the work. At least if you say first responders, we were able to say "see, we were there!!!"

    Back to what I said, I'm a firefighter. actually a firefighter/EMT. I respond to medical emergencies, on the engine. I'm a janitor too, and clean the firehouse daily. I'm a cook (actually a better dish cleaner than cook). I'm a GPS device, because I tell the driver where to go when get gets lost. I'm also a handyman around the house, and a hand holder on scenes. and I'm an educator too, both of formal classes, and for the general public. But yeah, I like being called a firefighter, because it sounds cooler than fire/emt/janitor/cook/gps/handyman/holder of hands/educator. and it fits much better on my business cards.

    but in the grand scheme of things, I am not going to lose sleep over what they call me, as long as they get my paycheck correct at the end of every 2 weeks.

    BTW, with the current breakdown of run numbers, more "fire departments that do EMS" are turning into "EMS departments that fight fires." 80/20 ratio ems to fire calls. just throwing that out there.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by sklump View Post
    Ok for all of you first responders, what do you drive to the scene when you are called and where do you keep them?
    When I was Chief, I drove a Durango that I kept at my house.

    Now that I am an Ex-Chief, I go to the firehouse (where there is no fire) to respond to a different house (where there MAY be a fire) and will drive either the truck, the engine, or the pickup truck. And yes, on a rare occasion, I will drive my own car to the scene.

    And I know of many areas that most guys respond from home....in their personal cars.

    So, what is your question?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is that it doesn't bother me in the least as that is what we are.
    Of course it doesn't bother you. While you claim to be a firefighter, it is obvious you've never been one. Your ecstatic that people see you in uniform and call you something you are not.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #62
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    Has nothing to do with sounding cool. But I guess if that makes your ego all warm and fuzzy, rock on with your bad self.
    I can only speak for my views here in St. Paul, and since we have only been in service since about 1856, your situation may be different.
    Here we started out as just that, St. Paul Fire Department. As times changed and with some foresight, we added skills, integrated ALS level EMS, all the special rescue disciplines, Haz-Mat, and yet in all that time, the core mission has been fire suppression. So when a citizen calls 911, that's what they get, a firefighter from the fire department. They maybe a firefighter/EMT or firefighter/paramedic, some are haz-mat specialists, many are tech rescue trained. Not a janitor or a cook, but a firefighter that has been trained and skilled in all the tasks that a modern department has been tasked to incorporate.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Of course it doesn't bother you. While you claim to be a firefighter, it is obvious you've never been one. Your ecstatic that people see you in uniform and call you something you are not.
    Come on scfire, can you please put it away for the Holidays? Even in WW1 and WW2 they had truces for the Holidays.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    And yes, there have been deaths of medics. From everything to GSWs to aircraft crashes.
    The statement I was responding to was "we all have the same risk." I said I didn't think MY department had any duty deaths for single role medics, but hundreds for firefighters. Does that sound like "equal" risk to you? We also have more deaths and injuries than the police, even though we are a third of their size. Perhaps things are radically different where you are from, but I don't believe there is equal risk. I was only speaking of the department I know, not vague generalities.
    Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Come on scfire, can you please put it away for the Holidays? Even in WW1 and WW2 they had truces for the Holidays.
    That's why I waited till the day after Christmas (not Xmas).
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    you can put me in the category of not giving a damn. After the last 3 years of listening to the republican and tea parties telling me what a union thug mooch I am, I'm ok with whatever. We show up, do our job, and move on to the next run. Public titles of our profession no longer mean anything to me.

    Personally, I took this job to help people, not to gain a title and a badge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    The statement I was responding to was "we all have the same risk." I said I didn't think MY department had any duty deaths for single role medics, but hundreds for firefighters. Does that sound like "equal" risk to you? We also have more deaths and injuries than the police, even though we are a third of their size. Perhaps things are radically different where you are from, but I don't believe there is equal risk. I was only speaking of the department I know, not vague generalities.
    Your department has had hundreds of LODD's? I'm not anyone but the FDNY can claim that, even minus those lost on 9-11 (which thankfully is not a normal LODD incident).

    BTW in addition to the 344 firefighters (the NY Fire Patrol firefighter is not included in the 343 FDNY losses), 24 police officers, 37 Port Authority workers and 43 EMS workers were killed when the towers came down.

    So not the same risk as they lost about 10% vs fire, but they were helping at a fire incident and clearly shared some risk.
    Last edited by Here and there; 12-26-2012 at 06:05 PM.

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    My questions are do first responders respond in fire trucks or first responder vechicles and keep them in fire stations or first responder stations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sklump View Post
    My questions are do first responders respond in fire trucks or first responder vechicles and keep them in fire stations or first responder stations?
    I think you don't understand what we're discussing. We aren't talking about personnel responding to EMS calls ahead of the ambulance. We're discussing the use of the term "first responder" (primarily by the media) as a catchall term for the personnel of the agencies that are the first to respond to an emergency rather than referring to them more individually as "firefighters", "EMS", "PD" or other common terms used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I think you don't understand what we're discussing. We aren't talking about personnel responding to EMS calls ahead of the ambulance. We're discussing the use of the term "first responder" (primarily by the media) as a catchall term for the personnel of the agencies that are the first to respond to an emergency rather than referring to them more individually as "firefighters", "EMS", "PD" or other common terms used.
    To quote Charlie Brown, in a "Charlie Brown Christmas, in your response to sklump: "Don't you know a sarcasm when you hear one?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Here and there View Post
    Your department has had hundreds of LODD's? I'm not anyone but the FDNY can claim that...
    Well, I'm claiming it...
    Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.

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    Put my vote down for calling us firefighter/police/EMS and not first responder. It's just not accurate when you look at the various job functions we do separately. Here's an excerpt from a letter to the editor in our local paper where a guy referred to the police as first responders:

    ".... the gunman as she cradled him in her arms. Before the first responders could stop him, the gunman had killed 23 and wounded 27."

    So is this first responders on the fire truck? Ambulance? Garbage truck? Red Cross? Nope.. it's the police he refers to.

    For me, it's not really about a title or a badge. It's just about being accurate and not lazy. It's about giving credit where it's rightfully due.

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    I hate being called a first responder oh its ok for general terms when lumping all togather I guess . I hate being called "rescue" whatever that is even more. But then I believe in and support tradition in the FD.

    Perhaps thats because my dept has so much of it,first engine purchesed in 1,818,first chief in 1,826, yes the horses are gone, but oats still fall from some cracks in ceilings...... thats as much change as I can take.

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    How bout 'fire buffs" some of them beat the FD in. Call them first responders ?
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    It all comes down to education. A call to your local media by your PIO (who hopefully isn't using the term either) might be useful. and you can't just talk to the reporters - you have to get to the folks who do the rewrites, management, etc. You need to get your police, fire, and EMS PIOs together on this, too.

    And if something happens locally, it won't matter what your local news sources do - the national people will take it any way they want.

    Keep in mind, too, that people these days think in 140 character "bites" anymore.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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