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Thread: Fire Fighting Vehicles on N.J. State Contract

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    Talking Fire Fighting Vehicles on N.J. State Contract

    The State of New Jersey, for the first time is offering fire apparatus to be purchased without needing to go out to bid. Seagrave, Ferrara, and Kme, are on the contract Schedule 23V GSA ,which can be found on the state treas. dept listed under co-op purchases , the contract is good untill the year 2017. I know that Pa, Ohio, Florida, offer the same type of program!
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 12-24-2012 at 01:07 PM.

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    One of the largest in the US is the HGAC (Houston-Galveston Area Council) with scores of firefighting apparatus. The Florida Sheriff's Association also has a number of fire apparatus on their state contract as well.
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    Post Base Prices

    Most of the fire apparatus that are listed on the state contracts are " base Models " then you have to add about $ 50,000- $ 60,000 worth of options to meet your departments specs. You may save a few thousand dollars on the vehicles with- out having to go to bid, sending RFP's, Lawyer fees, bid openings, etc !

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    Woodbridge; As a person in the know, the KME proposals for the NJ State Contract are far from bare bones. There are several options that have been included in each of the 47 units that have been submitted to the state.

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    The other two contracts from Seagrave & Ferrara, are " Base Model " apparatus with a few pages of options. It looks like Kme, is the only company who included option into there prices !

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    just a way for departments to avoid having to write a spec and allow them buy from who they want. As long as you want a KME, Seagrave, or Ferrara.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    just a way for departments to avoid having to write a spec and allow them buy from who they want. As long as you want a KME, Seagrave, or Ferrara.
    What is wrong with that? Especially if you can save money in the process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Most of the fire apparatus that are listed on the state contracts are " base Models " then you have to add about $ 50,000- $ 60,000 worth of options to meet your departments specs. You may save a few thousand dollars on the vehicles with- out having to go to bid, sending RFP's, Lawyer fees, bid openings, etc !
    Not necessarily true.

    We order all of our apparatus from Ferrera off the LA state contract and have to add very little for them to be very functional.

    About the only thing we add to our commercial chassis is a slightly upgraded light package and side-mount water tank level indicators - usually less than 2K.

    We just purchased a new custom at our staffed station and added less than 15K.
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    A 10k PTO generator as a option will cost between $ 18-20k, a 6" front suction $5,500, bigger Hp motor other than a 330HP will cost $ 20,000, or more .The cost of a base unit is a stock apparatus, don't get me wrong a base apparatus will do the same job as a $ 500,000 rig!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    What is wrong with that? Especially if you can save money in the process.
    State bid pricing packages, don't guarantee you will save money over competitive bidding process with multiple bidders. In many cases state bid price points are higher.
    Doesn't matter whether your buying cases of toilet paper or fire engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    State bid pricing packages, don't guarantee you will save money over competitive bidding process with multiple bidders. In many cases state bid price points are higher.
    Doesn't matter whether your buying cases of toilet paper or fire engines.
    Exactly. They set a price at 1 point during the year and then keep that regardless of market changes the other 364 days. Only time we have used state bid prices was when we were too lazy to look for better prices....and that was extremely rare. We don't even bother looking at the state bids anymore.

    And even better...you can go to the vendor that has the state bid and get better prices than their state bid offer very often.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I think that the State of New Jersey started the fire apparatus contract co-op awards to stop fire truck vendors from writing the specs for fire departments, so only there chassis cab could meet the specs and that would eliminate other builders from bidding on the apparatus!
    This contract from the state claims a 4% discount on apparatus, and more on options .
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 01-03-2013 at 08:07 PM.

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    Let me be brutally blunt here...ANY fire department that doesn't write at least their own basic spec is fooling themselves. They are getting what the salesman wants to sell them.

    I was very open about my days of trying to be a fire truck salesman here so I believe I can speak with a little inside knowledge. If you had a competitor write your spec, and it is obvious by proprietory items only they have, the company I sold for wouldn't waste time writing a spec or trying to get your business. Why? Because your choice was obviously made and the sending out of bid requests was a sham to say you met the requirements.

    Look, to me the answer here is obvious. Look at the state bid apparatus. If it meets your requirement and an save you money go for it. If not go the traditional route and requests specs and bids from competing manufacturers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    I think that the State of New Jersey started the fire apparatus contract co-op awards to stop fire truck vendors from writing the specs for fire departments, so only there chassis cab could meet the specs and that would eliminate other builders from bidding on the apparatus!
    This contract from the state claims a 4% discount on apparatus, and more on options .
    Yup, results of the SCI investigation a couple years ago.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    A quick note to those that think buying off state contracts save you money! Working in the apparatus business I can tell you at least with PA state contract COSTARS that you will pay on average 20K to 30K more than if you went out to bid. It does save you money up front on lawyer fees and advertising fees to the tune of what can be 10K here in PA and it is quick, however in the long run you end up paying more! It also allows departments to purchase what (brand name) they want without going through the “fake” bid process!!!!

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    Why would a apparatus purchased from a state contract cost 20K-30K more than going out to bid ?
    Don't most state fire apparatus contracts save the buyer up to 4% on a vehicle plus options .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Why would a apparatus purchased from a state contract cost 20K-30K more than going out to bid ?
    Don't most state fire apparatus contracts save the buyer up to 4% on a vehicle plus options .
    Not all state contracts offer a percentage discount. Furthermore, they're often not competitive bids, they're simply pricing schedules that may not provide the same savings that bidding would.
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    If a fire department is not happy with the state contract price of a apparatus, they can then go out to bid and award a contract to the builder who meets there price & specs!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Not all state contracts offer a percentage discount. Furthermore, they're often not competitive bids, they're simply pricing schedules that may not provide the same savings that bidding would.
    I don't know if 100% true, but what I've heard from some people who are involved with Federal trucks is that GSA trucks, which is what is listed on the NJ State contracts don't include a lot of "administrative" costs... like delivery, training, prep, factory visits, etc. All this needs to be contracted outside of the State contract. Also I heard, GSA requires payment at factory when truck is ready for final inspection.

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    Pierce Fire Apparatus , is also now on the New Jersey State Contract for fire fighting vehicles with a 5 year contract award. You can choose from Seagrave, Ferrara, Kme, & Pierce !

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    Question Apparatus Options

    Anyone know what is the allowed "percentage %" of option's that can be added on to the base cost of a state contract co-op fire apparatus purchase ?
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 09-03-2013 at 07:30 PM.

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