1. #1
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    Default First-in commercial: What tools?

    I'm not having a lot of luck researching this one, so I thought I'd throw it out.

    What tools do you take to the door on a commercial structure fire with the first-in crew(s)? The old downtown-style buildings, newer strip malls, that kind of thing. Those where you have smoke showing and you're going offensive.

    This has spawned from a discussion regarding using residential tactics for initial attack on commercial structures. Wanting to do some comparisons.

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    My truck company essentially just beef's up what our residential tools are. Instead of 6' hooks we bright 8's 10's or 12's, Instead of just a set of irons, we bring a set of Irons, a K tool, and a Hydra-ram. automatic K-12 saw instead of a Cutters-Edge chain saw to the roofs, Officer still holds a Halligan.
    Firefighter 1/ PA EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picc.93Truck View Post
    My truck company essentially just beef's up what our residential tools are. Instead of 6' hooks we bright 8's 10's or 12's, Instead of just a set of irons, we bring a set of Irons, a K tool, and a Hydra-ram. automatic K-12 saw instead of a Cutters-Edge chain saw to the roofs, Officer still holds a Halligan.
    That's basically what I'm looking for.

    Residential typically consists of irons, NY hook, PPV fan (we practice positive pressure attack when warranted), TIC, and dual 1 3/4" lines.

    Trying to decided what needs to be added/changed to that list for a commercial and looking for some others' opinions.

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    Normal residential tools along with Hydra-Ram and now a W Tool. Guys may forgo the 4' hook for 8' hooks. Initial handline for commercial is a 2 1/2", however IC can call for something smaller.

    I will say, in my area, there is no "new" commercial structures....we're talking buildings 20 years old at least.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Depends on the door, on the Engine for forced entry we have irons, hydraram, and the k tool. If we can get in with that, we're good to go. If its something that requires the saw, we're waiting for the Truck. Depends on the door and the security measures. Almost always stretch the 2 1/2, although a 1 3/4 might be stretched if conditions/building indicate it as an option. The size of the hooks being brought in depends on the building.

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    So many variable in this questions...Are you a engine crew or truck crew? BUT assuming you are coming off a truck, I'm going to grab a set of irons(tillerman) Officer will grab (honestly, whatever he chooses), and the front driver is going to grab a K12 and probably another variation of the haligan. If we Have a 4th riding backwards, he will grab some sort of forcible entry tool. If we are first due truck, we will assume that our job is going to be forcible entry. Again, So many variables. That all could change quickly. Also, We are department that responds 2 trucks to a commercial on the first alarm and the first truck should be right behinf the first due engine or even before. It all depends.. haha
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
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    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

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    Pretty much some variation of what's already been said.

    Engine Co's take 2 1/2" unless directed to use 1 3/4". Officer takes hand light and TIC. If going to be standpipe operations, he'll also take fitting bag with adapters, pipe wrench, spare nozzle and wye to hook onto standpipe. Standpipe lengths are 75ft and every engine carries two.

    Ladder Co's take forcible entry tools (Hydra-ram, halligan & 8lb maul), each man has a handlight, and whatever the need for that particular building is. The officer will take a hand light, TIC, and possibly 200ft search rope. Each rope bag also has 2 water proof strobes and two 25ft tether ropes to search off the main rope.

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    Mission drives gear. If you know what you're going to be doing in there, you know what to bring. You don't take 14-foot pike poles to do a primary. If you don't know what to take to the roof, you don't have the knowledge and experience necessary to work safely there anyways.

    Just give this some serious thought. What do you THINK you need for each assignment?

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    If you are entering a commercial occupancy to search, SOMEONE better bring a 14' (or whatever length necessary) hook to make an examination hole(s) in ceiling(s). You'll need to know what, if anything, is going on in the area above you before committing to an agressive interior search. It's also good to know what construction type was used to support the roof. If lightweight, you'll want to know that too in the event that fire is above ceiling.

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    primarly masonry building, swap the regular irons for the "heavy irons" (sledge & halligan)
    ?

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    About 95% of the time it is a ballast, so the collapsable A-frame ladder, tool box and a T.I.C. to find the hot one.

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