View Poll Results: Is it worth agressive interior attack on known vacant buildings?

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  • Yes, it is worth the risk

    20 55.56%
  • No, it is not worth the risk

    16 44.44%
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Thread: Risk/Reward Interior attack vacant buildings presentation

  1. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, "Whatever".

    All I can do here is laugh at you, and if you were here I would laugh in your face. Once again I am glad we don't have your kind in my area. Your ramblings about how we are dangerous, and wreckless, and suicidal we all are, no you haven't said those words but your implications have been clearly understood by the majority here, have become just like Charlie Brown's teacher...Muwah wah wah wah, Muwah wah wah wah. Mindless repeated dronings of someone who believes that the lives of victims are not your concern if you might get a boo boo trying to save them.
    The simple fact is that I will not commit my personnel into a hostile enviroment on the "possibility" that the victims or property may be viable. The crews are my priority. For me to commit them into a hostile enviroment there must be a reasonable "probability" that I have viable victims and/or property to save.

    And yes, viability is very much dependant on the training skill and experience of the crew, as well as the amount of manpower available. What may be "viable" in your community may not be in mine, even if we are talking about the same number of responders.

    You don't put any concern into the viability of the victims. You have repeated over and over it is about YOUR firefighters. Why is it all across the country VES is damn near a standard procedure but you won't teach it? Why is it all across the country firefighters understand that the job involve risks, yes we try to minimize them, but due to the inherent nature of the job and if you actually do the job, it is impossible to eliminate them all.

    How about you spend a little less time on here during your "Work Day" and you spend more time learning the craft of firefighting so you can train your people how to do VES, and do proper size-ups to determine viability of interior search and fire attack. It seems all you peruse is the uber safety, new wave, excuse for not entering websites that are a blight on the fire service. Too many book smart, no field experience, people trying to make a name for themselves.


    If that's not in the highest traditions of the fire service, or doesen't meet the performance standards of the some of the posters here .... Whatever.

    Let me type this really slow so maybe you can get it this time. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE here gives a Tinker's DAMN what you and you merry band of vollies and combo department people do in your little half acre of Louisiana. It is when you try to infect the minds of the newbies that come on here with your bovine recyclable waste material that we will battle you, and as much as you wish to paint yourself as the new wave of the fire service your inaction plan will never be the way the majority do this job. NO, that doesn't mean we mindlessly run into places we shouldn't, but it for damn sure means we will go into places you cower from and will make saves of people you callously and heartlessly "Don't lose a minute's sleep over" writing off.
    You say insults are the mark of someone with nothing meaningful left to say...I say "Whatever" is the sign of someone that knows they have lost but aren't smart enough to surrender and admit it.
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  2. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    never said that going home uninjured was thier priority, but when they are under my supervision, it is MY priority.
    It was mine as well. And we managed to do interior attack numerous times with my crew going home uninjured.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ya....... Right
    No really.....it's never been my goal to impress you.....ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And where have I said that I would not take risks for viable victims, assuming the training, experience and resources were available to support that risk, except in the specific cases of trusss construction with possible fire in ther overhead space, or a well-involved older mobile home?
    And myself and my crew engaged in attacking fires in all of those scenarios and we went home....uninjured. Many times we found no victims. But we did the interior attack with the assumption that we might find someone who needed saving. We considered that doing something you don't. OUR JOB!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I look for ways to do the job while at the same time assuring that my members will return home after EVERY call or shift. if you want to call that avaoilding the job, I guess I can't change that.
    So did I.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is that I have also made entry into burning structures many times and I never suffered more than a strain.That being said the fires of today are much more hostile, and also far less likely to yield viable victims on arrival, than they were even 10 years ago, so you have to adjust your mindset and realize that those fires of the past have little relevance when making decisions about the fires of the present. It is the only way that you are going to assure the famalies of your members that they will in fact return home after every call or shift.
    I did interior attacks on modern structures right up until the time I retired. My crews went home at the end of the shift. We weren't afraid of modern construction and we made decisions accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The fact is that there is significant differnce between the abilities of my combo FD and my volunteer department. Those abilities are based on access to better training, more experience through far more fires (especially in the case of those that work fulltime for the 2 nieghboring cities) and better resources through far better funding. I have to look at each through thier own capabilities, and there are simply things that my combo department does every day that my VFD will likely never be able to do.
    Which is why your VFD is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    For me to have the same expectations of my VFD as I do of my combo department would not only be foolish, but it would also be irresponsble and dangerous. In addition, for me to have the same expectations of either department, compared to either of the neighboring full-time departments, would also be foolish and dangerous.
    See above response.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I never said that I didn't care about folks still inside, but it is my responsbility as a supervisor to care about my crew far more, and my decsions are based around that.
    As was mine. And I based my decisions accordingly and my crews all went home.
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    I like to read the blogs of firefighters. I have read some well respected chiefs and other officers who are trying to constantly answer the question that we are trying to answer here. I find a lot of the old veterans tend to err on the side of safety going as far as saying that we should never go into a "vacant building". While a lot of the jumpseat riders are more of the opinion that we should make sure of occupancy no matter what and why the hell not put the fire out from the inside if conditions permit. Not having a lot of experience in the fire service puts me at a disadvantage when it comes to tactics, however hindsight is a bit#@ when it comes to LODD's at a vacant or abandoned structure. I react poorly when I hear about them. I usually think "what the hell were they doing in there". Now that I read LODD reports, I usually find that the firefighters were not acting recklessly at all. Everything lined up and things went bad. I was of the opinion that we should never enter an abandoned building, but now realize that how can we be sure if we do not enter. I think now that 360 size up training and experience is probably what I lack the most. We can stay pretty safe if we never go inside, but I am not sure that is the right thing to do. I signed up to do the JOB. Sorry if I am rambling. Heck, people get killed in my day job of farming all the time, we don't stop farming because it is too dangerous, we just try to do things correctly and as safely as POSSIBLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I like to read the blogs of firefighters.
    Me like cookies.
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    All I can do here is laugh at you, and if you were here I would laugh in your face. Once again I am glad we don't have your kind in my area. Your ramblings about how we are dangerous, and wreckless, and suicidal we all are, no you haven't said those words but your implications have been clearly understood by the majority here, have become just like Charlie Brown's teacher...Muwah wah wah wah, Muwah wah wah wah. Mindless repeated dronings of someone who believes that the lives of victims are not your if you might get a boo boo trying to save them.

    Give me a reason to take a risk, and yes, in some cases, risk injury to my crew, and I will. The only valid reason is viable life, and in some cases, viable property, though those circumstances would be VERY, VERY few and far between in either my combo or volunteer fire districts.

    The bottom line is that in the rural enviroment, most folks that die in fires are dead long before the department arrives. That's the simple reality. There is simply no point, in most cases, of going interior for rescue operations unless there is a strong reason to make entry. People die in fires. people especially die in fires in the rural enviroment. The vast majority of the time, firefighters cannot change that, but we can get hurt or killed trying to change that on a hope, not a realistic assessment.



    You don't put any concern into the viability of the victims. You have repeated over and over it is about YOUR firefighters.

    And in the end it is about MY firefighters. Does that mean I'm not concerned about the victims? no. But in the end my actions are based on what is best for one group of folks ... The people who I have been tasked to supervise, may that be just my crew, a sector or division, or the entire scene as the IC. Nobody else. If that makes me cold, callous, uncaring or ay other word you may want to toss my way about the victims, so be it.


    Why is it all across the country VES is damn near a standard procedure but you won't teach it?

    Really? When I brought up the topic of VES a few years ago, nobody in this area, including the career departments or the state instructors at the LSU facility just a few miles away from us, knew anything about it. In fact, not only have I conducted training on VES twice in my own combo department, but I have also done a class on it for another department. The fact is the command staff at my combo gig has decided not to adopt it as a standard technique, but has instead chosen to maintain through-the-door searhes as our standard procedure. Yes, it's a tool in the box, but not the standard tool.

    As far as my VFD, both the training officer and the Deputy Chief agree that the majority of our members simply do not have the training or experience to safely use VES, so it has been decided by the three of us not to teach it.

    Since we are on the topic of training ..... I have urged the members at my VFD to seek more outside training .... And they have. I hvae worked towards implementing new training standards ... Which have been implemented. And I have implemented much more physical and hands-on training, as well as introduced several new operational concepts and procedures, including the transistional attack and vehicle stabilzation operations.

    So, you were saying?


    Why is it all across the country firefighters understand that the job involve risks, yes we try to minimize them, but due to the inherent nature of the job and if you actually do the job, it is impossible to eliminate them all.

    Never said we could eliminate all, but through smart operations, including yes, not performing some operations that traditionally we have considered "part of the job", we can greatly reduce the exposure. We will always disagree on this. My job is simple ... To bring the members back unhurt. Everything else, short of injuries that may occur during realistic rescue operations within the skills, experience levels and training of the members, is secondary to that.

    How about you spend a little less time on here during your "Work Day" and you spend more time learning the craft of firefighting so you can train your people how to do VES, and do proper size-ups to determine viability of interior search and fire attack.

    Again, I do. My combo department, honestly, is already very well trained, generally highly experienced and (unfortunatly) operates in a manner that is consistant with the level of aggressiveness that you would likely consider acceptable. And yes, I am involved with training there on a daily basis as a part of my "workday".

    It's my VFD that is my primary area of concern, and I work with them as a volunteer.

    As far as my craft, I consider myself a skilled firefighter. That has absolutly nothing to do with making choices reagrding go/no-go decsion making. There are simply places that we do not need to be no matter how skilled we are.



    It seems all you peruse is the uber safety, new wave, excuse for not entering websites that are a blight on the fire service. Too many book smart, no field experience, people trying to make a name for themselves.

    Funny ... In addition to looking at the "standard websites" like Firehouse and Fire Engineering I also look quite often at websites like Fire Warrior and even McCormack's Urban Firefighter and yes, I find some articles of value at those places as well.Much of of it is either simply not applicable based on the resources and training time avaialble to my personnel, but I look anyway.



    Let me type this really slow so maybe you can get it this time. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE here gives a Tinker's DAMN what you and you merry band of vollies and combo department people do in your little half acre of Louisiana. It is when you try to infect the minds of the newbies that come on here with your bovine recyclable waste material that we will battle you, and as much as you wish to paint yourself as the new wave of the fire service your inaction plan will never be the way the majority do this job.

    And I will continue to post so that the newbies see that there is an alternative to your vision of what a firefighter should be and where he/she should operate.


    NO, that doesn't mean we mindlessly run into places we shouldn't, but it for damn sure means we will go into places you cower from and will make saves of people you callously and heartlessly "Don't lose a minute's sleep over" writing off.

    And if that makes you feel better at night, so be it. Again, as long as I walk out with my crew intact and uninjured.. It has been a successful day.

    You say insults are the mark of someone with nothing meaningful left to say...I say "Whatever" is the sign of someone that knows they have lost but aren't smart enough to surrender and admit it.

    After awhile, it justs get tiring.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-19-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Me like cookies.
    Me too. And ice cream.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Give me a reason to take a risk, and yes, in some cases, risk injury to my crew, and I will. The only valid reason is viable life, and in some cases, viable property, though those circumstances would be VERY, VERY few and far between in either my combo or volunteer fire districts.
    The reason is because it is your JOB!.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The bottom line is that in the rural enviroment, most folks that die in fires are dead long before the department arrives. That's the simple reality. There is simply no point, in most cases, of going interior for rescue operations unless there is a strong reason to make entry. People die in fires. people especially die in fires in the rural enviroment. The vast majority of the time, firefighters cannot change that, but we can get hurt or killed trying to change that on a hope, not a realistic assessment.
    The bottom line is that folks like you who claim to be firefighters are an embarrassment to the fire service.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    All I can do here is laugh at you, and if you were here I would laugh in your face. Once again I am glad we don't have your kind in my area. Your ramblings about how we are dangerous, and wreckless, and suicidal we all are, no you haven't said those words but your implications have been clearly understood by the majority here, have become just like Charlie Brown's teacher...Muwah wah wah wah, Muwah wah wah wah. Mindless repeated dronings of someone who believes that the lives of victims are not your if you might get a boo boo trying to save them.

    Give me a reason to take a risk, and yes, in some cases, risk injury to my crew, and I will. The only valid reason is viable life, and in some cases, viable property, though those circumstances would be VERY, VERY few and far between in either my combo or volunteer fire districts.

    You have said plainly, and quite clearly, that mere building construction would prevent you entering a building on fire. Not extent of the fire, not building condition, BUT BUILDING CONSTRUCTION. WHY? If the fire is confined to the compartment, or you may prefer room, the structure is not threatened and normal firefighting techniques can and should be used. In other words, go inside and put out the damn fire. You talk about how you go in, yet all you do is make more and more excuses and arguments why not to.

    The bottom line is that in the rural enviroment, most folks that die in fires are dead long before the department arrives. That's the simple reality. There is simply no point, in most cases, of going interior for rescue operations unless there is a strong reason to make entry. People die in fires. people especially die in fires in the rural enviroment. The vast majority of the time, firefighters cannot change that, but we can get hurt or killed trying to change that on a hope, not a realistic assessment.


    Maybe where you live. Departments around here have more saves than have deaths in fires. Must be a cultural thing.

    You don't put any concern into the viability of the victims. You have repeated over and over it is about YOUR firefighters.

    And in the end it is about MY firefighters. Does that mean I'm not concerned about the victims? no. But in the end my actions are based on what is best for one group of folks ... The people who I have been tasked to supervise, may that be just my crew, a sector or division, or the entire scene as the IC. Nobody else. If that makes me cold, callous, uncaring or ay other word you may want to toss my way about the victims, so be it.


    The fact is you come off as a cold, callous, uncaring Son of a Bitch. If you don't mean it the way you say it then come up with a better way of saying it because right now I would rather have a Troop of Brownies coming to my house fire before any firefighters led by you. At least Brownies are taught about Duty, Service and Honor.

    Why is it all across the country VES is damn near a standard procedure but you won't teach it?


    Really? When I brought up the topic of VES a few years ago, nobody in this area, including the career departments or the state instructors at the LSU facility just a few miles away from us, knew anything about it. In fact, not only have I conducted training on VES twice in my own combo department, but I have also done a class on it for another department. The fact is the command staff at my combo gig has decided not to adopt it as a standard technique, but has instead chosen to maintain through-the-door searhes as our standard procedure. Yes, it's a tool in the box, but not the standard tool.

    It is surely not my fault that it seems that great portions of the State of Lousiana, or at least the parts you come in contact with, are about 20 years out of touch with the rest of the fire service when it comes to VES. Whether knowing about it and rejecting it, or actually practicing it.

    Further your comment about through the door searches shows clearly YOU don't understand when and where VES would be used. Because it does not replace normal search procedures, it is for a rapid search in areas of high probability of victims being located when time is of the essence.


    As far as my VFD, both the training officer and the Deputy Chief agree that the majority of our members simply do not have the training or experience to safely use VES, so it has been decided by the three of us not to teach it.

    So let me see if I have this right...When your firefighters don't have the training or the experience to do something instead of training them to do it and giving them experience on the training grounds you simply dismiss the idea all together. Now I understand why you don't want your volly FD going interior, because they don't have the training or experience you dismiss that practice instead of training to do it. IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR NOW!

    Since we are on the topic of training ..... I have urged the members at my VFD to seek more outside training .... And they have. I hvae worked towards implementing new training standards ... Which have been implemented. And I have implemented much more physical and hands-on training, as well as introduced several new operational concepts and procedures, including the transistional attack and vehicle stabilzation operations.

    Yet VES is beyond them. Interesting.

    So, you were saying?

    I was saying it is fun watching you constantly contradict yourself in your maze of BS.


    Why is it all across the country firefighters understand that the job involve risks, yes we try to minimize them, but due to the inherent nature of the job and if you actually do the job, it is impossible to eliminate them all.

    Never said we could eliminate all, but through smart operations, including yes, not performing some operations that traditionally we have considered "part of the job", we can greatly reduce the exposure. We will always disagree on this. My job is simple ... To bring the members back unhurt. Everything else, short of injuries that may occur during realistic rescue operations within the skills, experience levels and training of the members, is secondary to that.

    My job is simpler, serve the public by saving lives and protecting property in as safe a manner as I can. Understanding that the job has inherent risks and that the only way to be 100% safe is to quit firefighting and take up a safer passtime like reading in a soft cushy overstuffed chair, equipped with a seatbelt and air bags.

    How about you spend a little less time on here during your "Work Day" and you spend more time learning the craft of firefighting so you can train your people how to do VES, and do proper size-ups to determine viability of interior search and fire attack.

    Again, I do. My combo department, honestly, is already very well trained, generally highly experienced and (unfortunatly) operates in a manner that is consistant with the level of aggressiveness that you would likely consider acceptable. And yes, I am involved with training there on a daily basis as a part of my "workday".

    Yet there are days when you are supposedly at work when you are on here for hours during the work day. Seems like your job doesn't really require all that much work if you can afford to do that.

    It's my VFD that is my primary area of concern, and I work with them as a volunteer.

    No kidding, you make new excuses for them everyday.

    As far as my craft, I consider myself a skilled firefighter. That has absolutly nothing to do with making choices reagrding go/no-go decsion making. There are simply places that we do not need to be no matter how skilled we are.

    You can consider yourself whatever you want. Wishing you are something doesn't make it true.



    It seems all you peruse is the uber safety, new wave, excuse for not entering websites that are a blight on the fire service. Too many book smart, no field experience, people trying to make a name for themselves.


    Funny ... In addition to looking at the "standard websites" like Firehouse and Fire Engineering I also look quite often at websites like Fire Warrior and even McCormack's Urban Firefighter and yes, I find some articles of value at those places as well.Much of of it is either simply not applicable based on the resources and training time avaialble to my personnel, but I look anyway.


    I'm sure you do. Again more excuses not to train.

    Let me type this really slow so maybe you can get it this time. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE here gives a Tinker's DAMN what you and you merry band of vollies and combo department people do in your little half acre of Louisiana. It is when you try to infect the minds of the newbies that come on here with your bovine recyclable waste material that we will battle you, and as much as you wish to paint yourself as the new wave of the fire service your inaction plan will never be the way the majority do this job.

    And I will continue to post so that the newbies see that there is an alternative to your vision of what a firefighter should be and where he/she should operate.

    When anyone that comes here sees the overwhelming number that disagree with your blather it becomes obvious how valid you are.

    NO, that doesn't mean we mindlessly run into places we shouldn't, but it for damn sure means we will go into places you cower from and will make saves of people you callously and heartlessly "Don't lose a minute's sleep over" writing off.

    And if that makes you feel better at night, so be it. Again, as long as I walk out with my crew intact and uninjured.. It has been a successful day.

    I do feel better knowing that I look for reasons to do the job rather than one's not to.

    You say insults are the mark of someone with nothing meaningful left to say...I say "Whatever" is the sign of someone that knows they have lost but aren't smart enough to surrender and admit it.

    After awhile, it justs get tiring.

    Then stop. You are the narcissist that needs the attention.
    Have a nice day!
    scfire86 likes this.
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  9. #434
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    I fight the same kind of mentality all the time. The mentality of "we rarely see the problem so why train for the problem?". I recently suggested training on getting a firefighter or a victim out of a second story window and was met with "why, we have not seen that in years?" REALLY? I was flabbergasted. I would think a VFD in the south should get trained up unless the community is fine with the fact that no entry will be made because they are not trained well enough. We may not cost as much as a paid dept. but we have as much responsibility to be worth the money, however small the amount.

  10. #435
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    Similar resonance.
    Last edited by Matty_Bev; 11-21-2013 at 05:22 PM.

  11. #436
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    Back to your question and poll as to is it worth an aggressive interior attack on a known vacant. I always tell my guys when we respond to a vacant and also commercial/industrial fires is to slow down. Be more careful and aware then when in an occupied SFD. You should always be aware, but I always remind my guys enroute to on of these fires to be more careful etc... and if there is anything i dont like I am pulling the plug sooner in a vacant then I would in a sound building or an occupied SFD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty_Bev View Post
    Hmm a lot of very edgy replies to this. I'm only applying to departments but I would never be so antagonizing to a question like this if I was a seasoned pro. Can't anyone just answer the guy's question using their own brain? I mean, you COULD just give the guy all the scenarios you encounter doing this job, eh? Instead of slamming him and his question for being vague (i.e. stupid). So he didn't include ALL the variables . . . can't ANY of you provide them? He asked a question. It's called an open-ended question. The answers should include information he didn't consider when asking the question. I always thought Firefighters were supposed to be very helpful people but, reading through a lot of these replies, I am encountering the same old macho, antagonistic, internet-tough-guy posturing as I find on any website - forum. Maybe I should go to law school like my ma wants. Very disappointed. And let the slamming me commence . . . Actually read through and found some answers that were very informative and helpful and the least aggressive and antagonistic. So that's good. But, there still is a lot of bickering and stupid name-calling. I've said what I've said and now I'm not coming back to this site. Why bother if you can't ask a simple question and get 100% help from people who are supposed to be 100% helpful. Cheers.
    Bye! Have fun in law school; a career full of... aggressiveness, antagonizing, bickering, and name-calling.

  13. #438
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    Good Question.
    Last edited by Matty_Bev; 11-25-2013 at 02:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty_Bev View Post
    How did you pass the written? I said maybe I should go to law school. Didn't say I was going. Super answer though! Bravo and bye bye.
    I thought you were leaving nd never coming back to this site? You have the integrity to be a lawyer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty_Bev View Post
    How did you pass the written? I said maybe I should go to law school. Didn't say I was going. Super answer though! Bravo and bye bye.
    You're still here?
    Let me be the first to say how PROFOUNDLY sorry I am that you might have been offended by the content of an OPEN internet forum.
    Let me assure you that should you ever decide to become a firefighter you will NEVER have to learn to deal with people that have different personalities or differences of opinions. EVER.

    Good luck. You are going to need it.
    Last edited by conrad427; 10-09-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty_Bev View Post
    How did you pass the written?
    It's pretty funny that you complained about what you felt were antagonizing responses to the OP, but then you turn around and post this response (after saying you were done with the site).

    I said maybe I should go to law school. Didn't say I was going. You've managed to prove my assertion and, I guess, without even trying too hard.
    It's called sarcastic humor or in fire service terminology, "ball busting". Something you'll have to deal with if you spend anytime in a fire department.

    The comment was actually quite funny since you offered an alternative career path that is just as full, if not more so of the very things you are complaining about regarding firefighters.

    People in the fire-service (such as yourself ???) are supposed to be above the things you mentioned and, correct me if I'm wrong, a bunch of bickering, argumentative, meat-heads aren't going to be very effective on the job. In other words: that is not a component of the job. But this is the internet: where the self-repressed and boorish come out and shine.
    This may come as a surprise to you, but firefighters are actual human beings and therefore not immune to all of the feelings, behaviors, etc. that other human beings with different occupations experience. Like the rest of the world, some of us have an easier time being "nice", some of us are "dicks" and some of us fall somewhere in the middle.

    You clearly have little to no understanding of what "the job" entails. Yes, there is some "internet tough guy" stuff in some of the responses, but most of the responses here are not much different than what the person would get sitting around the kitchen table in the fire station. We tend to be pretty blunt and to the point when discussing "the job".

    Haven't decided to take a job with a Fire Dept. yet. If I make it through, I'll decide. I can assure you though I won't be taking part in this site - forum. Thanks! You could've gone the other route and been encouraging or said something positive. So bye to you too!
    Get over yourself. It'll help you out in life, particularly if you ever find yourself working in a fire station.

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    I would stick around, you WILL learn something. The fire service is a poor choice if you need your *** kissed all the time. I had an officer tell me one time "wow, you finally managed to not F@#$ that up!" It was one of the nicest things I has ever been told.

    Believe it or not, if you can get along with these guys and not get butt hurt all the time you stand a pretty good chance of surviving fire house life. I would say the different personalities represented here are a pretty good representation of fire houses across the country, and there is nothing wrong with that fact.

    The senior man might say" hey, the FNG cant figure out the bowline on a bight". If you have an entitlement mentality you will get mad and wait to be shown. If you have initiative you will work harder and figure it out.
    Last edited by conrad427; 10-09-2013 at 11:17 AM.
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Ahh... Kids. Just remember boy, I AM something that you WANT to be.

    If and when you decide to come back (which you will), come back with some thicker skin and better insults.

    PS: I got the highest score ever received on the written test.
    "I am an aggressive firefighter, and that is not an apology."

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

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    Ahh... Kids. Just remember boy, I AM something that you WANT to be.
    Bing-freaking-o!!!

    Posted by Matty Bev (is that short for Matilda Beverly?)
    Haven't decided to take a job with a Fire Dept. yet. If I make it through, I'll decide. I can assure you though I won't be taking part in this site - forum. Thanks! You could've gone the other route and been encouraging or said something positive. So bye to you too!
    Don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Gee. I was trying to take the high road. You guys must have seen something I didn't!
    The fire service is about service to our fellow man.
    There is a trust that must not be broken and we are the keepers of that trust.
    Captain Dave LeBlanc

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post

    Don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out...
    I hope it hits him hard in his pompous, oh so superior, azz hole.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Oath when getting on the job was 2 things

    1. Protect life
    2. Protect property
    Jerry Stewart
    Firefighter Engine Company No. 44
    Licensed Paramedic State of Michigan
    Detroit1552fire@yahoo.com
    (313) 732 7377
    Detroit Fire Department Local 344

  23. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroitfire1552 View Post
    Oath when getting on the job was 2 things

    1. Protect life
    2. Protect property
    Brother, ours too.

    But we are being infested with a bunch of safety Sallys' whom have bastardized EGH. Their motto is fairly similar, but on number 2 they insert an asterisk to indicate the following exceptions;

    1. Me, myself, or I will not get dirty, sweat, have to exert myself, stay in shape, train, get hurt, take time away from MY family, or make any sort of sacrifice that may include dying for my fellow fire fighters or the citizens we serve.
    2. Refer to exception number 1.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty_Bev View Post
    Hmm a lot of very edgy replies to this. I'm only applying to departments but I would never be so antagonizing to a question like this if I was a seasoned pro. Can't anyone just answer the guy's question using their own brain? I mean, you COULD just give the guy all the scenarios you encounter doing this job, eh? Instead of slamming him and his question for being vague (i.e. stupid). So he didn't include ALL the variables . . . can't ANY of you provide them? He asked a question. It's called an open-ended question. The answers should include information he didn't consider when asking the question. I always thought Firefighters were supposed to be very helpful people but, reading through a lot of these replies, I am encountering the same old macho, antagonistic, internet-tough-guy posturing as I find on any website - forum. Maybe I should go to law school like my ma wants. Very disappointed. And let the slamming me commence . . . Actually read through and found some answers that were very informative and helpful and the least aggressive and antagonistic. So that's good. But, there still is a lot of bickering and stupid name-calling. I've said what I've said and now I'm not coming back to this site. Why bother if you can't ask a simple question and get 100% help from people who are supposed to be 100% helpful. Cheers.
    You dig up a six month old dead horse to bestow this charming response on us? I'm sure your ma would like you to get any job so you could move out of her basement. Get a clue and lose the entitlement mentailty.

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    The key word in the poll question was "aggressive". To me that means a building, in this case a vacant building, with very heavy fire conditions and only a very "aggressive" interior attack is going to have a chance of putting it out. So that means lot's of crews inside. If that is my course of action as an IC, I am risking a lot to save what?

    Is this an abandoned building? A building no one wants? I'm not risking my people for something like that.
    Is it a vacant/unoccupied business? A business that is closed for the day and all employees have gone home. Some businesses are built cheap, easy to knockdown into the ground and be rebuilt. Why risk people for that?

    Size up is very important. Are conditions such that no unprotected human could survive them? The reality is there is no one to save. It's a body recovery operation and no one risks the lives of their people to recover a body. You don't do it on ice or river rescue, so don't do it at a building fire.

    I have 32 years on a career dept. and I am currently a District Chief. It's tough to make blanket statements and no two calls are ever the same. In the real world I will let my size up guide my actions. But the more red flags I note the more my strategy meter is going to move towards the defensive side of the scale.
    Last edited by Whammer79; 11-02-2013 at 10:37 AM.

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