Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience

View Poll Results: Is it worth agressive interior attack on known vacant buildings?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it is worth the risk

    20 55.56%
  • No, it is not worth the risk

    16 44.44%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 23 FirstFirst 1234512 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 453
Like Tree136Likes

Thread: Risk/Reward Interior attack vacant buildings presentation

  1. #21
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    A) how is it known vacant?
    B) In my neighborhood, with zero lot lines and 18" separation between houses, you would look pretty stupid letting the block burn because you where to timid to stop an interior fire on the assumption the property was "vacant"...
    In my city we have a number of houses that look vacant and abandoned, but actually have people living in them and they aren't squatters.


  2. #22
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseFF/EMT View Post
    Ok guys. I knew that this forum could of been a good help to steer me in the right direction. But I should of included more information and I didn't think this post to be a place to insult my intelligence. I will taking it down asap
    As already pointed out, you don't need to run away from the discussion. You just have to understand that you asked a "loaded question" and got replies that reflect that.

  3. #23
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    In my city we have a number of houses that look vacant and abandoned, but actually have people living in them and they aren't squatters.
    In my city, it could be any vacant structure, residential or commercial, doesn't matter. With a homeless population well over 5,000 now, nothing is left to chance, no matter how bad we personally want them outta here.
    IAFF

  4. #24
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,802

    Default

    Vacant doesn't necessarily mean abandoned, dilapidated, or worthless . I'd be pretty upset if the building I was selling or in the process of finding new tenants for was allowed to burn to the ground because the firemen were cowards because it was "vacant."

    I think the experience aspect can't be discounted either. The more fires we go in and put out, the better firemen we become. That could make the difference when it is an occupied building and there are people inside that need us.

  5. #25
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    My take on this subject was covered by MemphisE34A (who I'll wager is not on A shift anymore) and FyredUp
    You owe me a Coca Cola......or a donut. Going on my 17th year on "A" shift.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  6. #26
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    You owe me a Coca Cola......or a donut. Going on my 17th year on "A" shift.
    17 years on A shift? Man I had 8 years on C shift (Crew 3 here) and they moved me to B shift (Crew 2) for my last 6 months. You think they could have left me alone and with my long time crew to end my career. This is a good crew, but it sure ain't like the good old "Snake Pit" Crew 3 was!!
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-17-2013 at 11:52 PM.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  7. #27
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Seriously, if you felt insulted by anything here heaven help you if you ever actually become a career firefighter and sit down at the kitchen table. Learn to take some ribbing and maybe you will learn something from the guys that have been around the block without their mom driving the mini-van!
    I dont think he intends to become a fireman, just another in the long line of "emergency managers"
    For his sake maybe they will invent a thick skin app for his smart phone.
    SPFDRum likes this.
    ?

  8. #28
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,063

    Default

    Many jurisdictions have begun installing placards on known abandoned buildings. But that placard and 55 cents will get you a can of pop; all the placard means is "Nobody is supposed to be in here."

    This is where it helps to know your district. Which vacant buildings in your area are best candidates for squatters? There are some with such poor floor and roof conditions that the homeless are better off staying out of them. If you know which ones those are, that's another piece of the puzzle.

    And of course, the degree of fire involvement is key, just as in a building that is supposed to be occupied.

    The simple fact is that any tenable structure could have people in it. The building's official occupancy status, its standing with your city inspector, or any of a zillion other things don't mean Richard. If it's warmer and drier than being outside, there could be people in it.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Many jurisdictions have begun installing placards on known abandoned buildings. But that placard and 55 cents will get you a can of pop; all the placard means is "Nobody is supposed to be in here."
    Not disagreeing.. but the placards can give some useful info as well.. such as "electric is not supposed to be connected", "gas is not supposed to be connected", and other hazards "Unsafe structure/roof" or "mold". I agree most of it is 'shouldn't' not 'isn't' but there is info that should play into any risk assessment... both for the IC but also for the guys that might make entry.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  10. #30
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,514

    Default

    I can see the advantages of a placard...
    But in my first due, it would be nothing more than an invitation to go in and steal every possible thing they could.
    Soon followed by the drug seeking squatters.
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 03-18-2013 at 03:12 PM.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  11. #31
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,063

    Default

    Good points by the last two. The main thing I was highlighting is that a "Oh yeah, it's vacant" placard is worthless--and as SPFD points out, maybe even counterproductive--as you assess the likelihood of occupants being in a structure.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  12. #32
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,672

    Default

    Post Sandy...there are a lot of vacant homes in my area. We still enter and search when possible.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #33
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    As already pointed out, you don't need to run away from the discussion. You just have to understand that you asked a "loaded question" and got replies that reflect that.
    I'd catergorize it as more of an EXTREMELY VAGUE question. There are almost enless variables to that scenario.

  14. #34
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Many jurisdictions have begun installing placards on known abandoned buildings. But that placard and 55 cents will get you a can of pop; all the placard means is "Nobody is supposed to be in here."

    This is where it helps to know your district. Which vacant buildings in your area are best candidates for squatters? There are some with such poor floor and roof conditions that the homeless are better off staying out of them. If you know which ones those are, that's another piece of the puzzle.

    And of course, the degree of fire involvement is key, just as in a building that is supposed to be occupied.

    The simple fact is that any tenable structure could have people in it. The building's official occupancy status, its standing with your city inspector, or any of a zillion other things don't mean Richard. If it's warmer and drier than being outside, there could be people in it.
    The only time a placard is good is when it tells you that the building should not be entered under any circumstances. Of course if it's that bad, it needs to be torn down ASAP.

  15. #35
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,562

    Default

    I disagree with most of the posters, but apprently not the majority that have answered your poll.

    I won't get into the details here in the open forum as in the past it's gotten some of the posters in quite a lather, but if you want details, just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to talk about it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  16. #36
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I won't get into the details here in the open forum as in the past it's gotten some of the posters in quite a lather, but if you want details, just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to talk about it.
    I highly recommend against this. If you have been around here long enough, you already understand that the man does not possess the credibility to counsel a Boy Scout through a "Firemanship" merit badge, much less be an authority on structural firefighting; and that he has proven it time and time again.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  17. #37
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    536

    Default

    I voted no. But in reading the posts i have changed my mind. Being the new guy has its disadvantages! I realize now that a building abandoned or not is not "vacant" untill proven otherwise, right? But the same rules apply with the risk managment process. Fire load, building construction, arival observations all have the same importance wether it is vacant or not when it comes to a search, yes...I am begining to see!

  18. #38
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,514

    Default

    I won't get into the details here in the open forum as in the past it's gotten some of the posters in quite a lather, but if you want details, just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to talk about it.
    With the OP's question as open ended and obtuse as it is, it's a good bet they are just as clueless....
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  19. #39
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,562

    Default

    Ahhhh yes, the ole' attack and degrade.

    Are you an Obama supporter by any chance?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #40
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,924

    Default

    CheeseFF/EMT...

    You have to ask yourself WHY this poster won't post his opinion here in the open forum. While the rest of us had no problem doing so.

    The reason is on this topic he is so FAR out of the mainstream of the fire service as to be eliminated from any serious consideration as a resource for any relevant information.



    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I disagree with most of the posters, but apprently not the majority that have answered your poll.

    I won't get into the details here in the open forum as in the past it's gotten some of the posters in quite a lather, but if you want details, just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to talk about it.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. interior attack
    By whitefishfire in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-28-2009, 01:55 PM
  2. Is the risk worth the reward??
    By Rivwarrior in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-30-2005, 05:59 AM
  3. first interior attack
    By smfd232 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-29-2002, 02:43 PM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-13-2002, 01:09 PM
  5. interior attack communications
    By mtperry in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 04-02-2002, 03:25 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts