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Thread: Tanker Task Force plans?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Being radical and trying to effect positive change is always a struggle. Just remember "A sane man in an insane world must appear insane."
    Without a doubt we'll likely use our 3" to fill trucks using adapters to the LDH, we do carry enough adapters to facilitate this already, but we rarely are at the fill site. Sadly few seem to understand that 1000 gpm is 1000 gpm through whatever size line is stretched, the LDH may be easier on the engine, but in the relatively short lays for the fill site, I'd hope anyone's engine wouldn't be sweating it. In our case, I foresee the likely set up being: a 5" line from the pump to a gated wye reversed and a single 3" line with LDH adapter at the end. This would be duplicated to allow connecting two tankers simultaneously, though filling them one after the other. The reversed gated wye allows for the rapid release of pressure and water from the line. We may find that using the 3" makes this unnecessary which would allow the wye to be deployed to feed two 3" lines and eliminate the second LDH from the pump. Thoughts?

    The whole area used 2.5" cam lock quick connects when I started but as LDH started to take over hose beds, everyone migrated to it for any "supply" type operation, it's really only been a few people watching the fill site folks struggle that have raised any question. We're definitively going to host a little fill site drill with multiple methods used and see if we can flesh out the most efficient and safe way, something about continually spilling water all over ones self and the ground in mid-February seems to scream for a better way, but I'm old(ish) and hate the cold.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 05-06-2013 at 06:40 PM. Reason: key board caused misspelled words


  2. #22
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Without a doubt we'll likely use our 3" to fill trucks using adapters to the LDH, we do carry enough adapters to facilitate this already, but we rarely are at the fill site. The whole area used 2.5" cam lock quick connects when I started but as LDH started to take over hose beds, everyone migrated to it for any "supply" type operation, it's really only been a few people watching the fill site folks struggle that have raised any question. We're definitively going to host a little fill site drill with multiple methods used and see if we can flesh out the most efficient and safe way, something about continually spilling water all over ones self and the ground in mid-February seems to scream for a better way, but I'm old(ish) and hate the cold.
    Brother we are all getting older and I HATE the cold too. In fact I hate it so much that my wife and I are seriosuly looking at relocating to Tennessee in a few years!

    I will tell you that if we are sent to the fill site we set it up using at least two 3 inch lines, that way because of the need for different adapters we can always have 2 rigs hooked up for filling.

    Good luck, change comes slowly if at all sometimes.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If I can be brutally honest here, I am beginning to believe that there is not much of an advantage using LDH to fill tankers over 3 inch. The weight and hassle of disconnecting 4 or 5 inch hose, especially if there is no quick way to relieve the back pressure and some of the weight can make it a real bear of a job.

    3 inch hose flowing 1000 gpm has 40psi of FL in 50 feet. Meaning it is well within the power of a class A pumper to move 1000 or more gpm through that single 3 inch line. Even if you went 100 feet the friction loss is still only 80psi.

    To me a much more efficient operation would be to run 4 or 5 inch hose from the supply engine to the tanker fill spot, set a manifold up and run 3 inch hose from there. if you had multiple 3 inch lines in place the tanker filling could be hooked up and the next in line could be hooked up and as soon as one was full and shut down then the next gets filled and another rolls into place and is connected. No one waits to be hooked up making the fill site more efficient. For those that insist on 4 or 5 inch fill ports, or my favorite the cam lock, the fill site would have necessary adapters to hook them up.
    The problem you describe is easily remedied by using a 5" flow through valve with 3" gated outlets on the side. You just use a short section of 5" past the valve, and when you're ready to disconnect, you open a 3" outlet to relieve pressure and drain the 5" fill line. You can run your pump at a lower rpm saving fuel and there's less noise for the operator.

  4. #24
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    The problem you describe is easily remedied by using a 5" flow through valve with 3" gated outlets on the side. You just use a short section of 5" past the valve, and when you're ready to disconnect, you open a 3" outlet to relieve pressure and drain the 5" fill line. You can run your pump at a lower rpm saving fuel and there's less noise for the operator.
    Whats the advantage? If I can flow 1000 gpm through 100 feet of 3 inch, which is lighter, easier to handle, and adaptable to whatever the tankers in my area are using for a fill port, why wrestle a 5 inch hose?

    Holy cow John, if you engine can't run at 100 psi all day supplying a 3 inch line for filling tankers without excessive RPMs it's time to look for a new engine.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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    Some years ago pretty much everyone in this county adopted twist lock (Stortz) couplers for filling tankers. I forget whether they're 2.5" or 3", but it matters little - they're all the same. There are usually plenty of them available, and all of the tankers have them permanently mounted on their ground fills.

    A lot of tankers around here (probably most, in fact) have two ground fills.

    If I'm setting up a fill site I'll sometimes set up not two, but four 3" lines. That way one tanker can be filled while the next is being connected. There's no sense filling two at once - they'll likely dump one at a time anyhow. And if I'm moving ~1000GPM, they're full in two minutes anyhow. It almost takes longer to make and break the connections.

    If the fire scene is using a lot of water (barn fires can be like that), the pump operator can be like a one-armed paper hanger. Makes one a believer in top-mount pump panels.
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    We use MABAS (Mutual Aid Box Alarm System) in Wisconsin. The majority of counties in WI are part of the organization.

    I can send you examples of our Tender Strike Team cards. Send me an email at: dickeydo@charter.net
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    Here's my county's Water Gender guideline.

    http://bcfirechiefs.org/Guidelines/tender_guideline.htm

    Most of my town is fully supported by hydrants but we have a few iffy areas.. We're more apt to lay down a 5" pipeline than a Tender shuttle. That's mainly due to available resources. All of our mutual aid have (multiple) Engines with 1000-1200' of LDH.. only a few have Tenders that we'd call on automatically.

    In general we default to Pipelines in town and Tenders on the two big Interstates in our local.
    If you care, here's the Pipeline guidelines: http://bcfirechiefs.org/Guidelines/pipelineguide.htm
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    If I'm setting up a fill site I'll sometimes set up not two, but four 3" lines. That way one tanker can be filled while the next is being connected. There's no sense filling two at once - they'll likely dump one at a time anyhow. And if I'm moving ~1000GPM, they're full in two minutes anyhow. It almost takes longer to make and break the connections.
    Reading over our guidelines I posted above, that's exactly what we do. Two sets of dual-3" lines off the fill engine so that we can be filling one tanker and connecting a second. If the draft site for the fill is off the roadway then it's LDH from there to a manifold to the quad 3's.

    Surprisingly enough the guideline does not specify adapter type, though I assume it's NST not twist-lock for everything but LDH.
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