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Thread: Staying at Bingo instead of responding to structure fire

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    I asked him what the department's budget was because I do know, thanks to the link from slackjawedyokel. It shows that these buffoons are knocking down $600K+ per year from fundraisers, evidently the aforementioned bingo.

    So money is not the issue. Purely ****-poor judgement is. But scfire would rather thrown crap at every volunteer department--or maybe more specifically, their communities--with a flip, unsubstantiated cheap shot than get tangled up in facts.
    Where are you seeing this 600k per year? Maybe in 2001, 2002, 2003. But did you look at the last few years reported? They are losing money. The last year reported in the link was 2007....they had a year end balance (loss) of -300k. Not that this explains why they would not answer a call, but lets not bash guys over inaccurate information.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    The fact these wackers actually believed they had a choice to respond is telling enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Where are you seeing this 600k per year? Maybe in 2001, 2002, 2003. But did you look at the last few years reported? They are losing money. The last year reported in the link was 2007....they had a year end balance (loss) of -300k. Not that this explains why they would not answer a call, but lets not bash guys over inaccurate information.
    I might not have moved far enough across the table, but regardless, a few years knocking down 600K per year should have any small volunteer department set for a very, VERY long time.

    If they had fuel in the tanks and equipment that worked, I don't care if they were overdrawn by a billion dollars. They should have gone to that fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    The fact these wackers actually believed they had a choice to respond is telling enough for me.
    ^^^This. I can't even wrap my mind around not responding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Where are you seeing this 600k per year? Maybe in 2001, 2002, 2003. But did you look at the last few years reported? They are losing money. The last year reported in the link was 2007....they had a year end balance (loss) of -300k. Not that this explains why they would not answer a call, but lets not bash guys over inaccurate information.
    Bones - the point is - on the statter page -you had a knee jerk reaction of "aww the poor struggling dept" living hand to mouth. The fact is , if they are not living within their means , they need to scale things down. Do they really need all the toys? The best I can figure out , they do have paid positions. Are they a fire department or just a fund raising organization?
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    ...However, their actions were not an aberration compared to the vollies I worked with during my years. They were typical of this type of mindset. My favorite anecdote is when the vollies went out to a brushfire, brought their rig back and then demanded the career personnel clean the hose and wash the rig. This was not an atypical attitude. They finally imploded. Sad that communities like this one don't have that option...
    You're clearly an educated individual, both in the fire service and life as well. Certainly you don't actually believe that your experiences with the volunteers in your former combination department reflect the typical volunteer mindset in the rest of the US? I refuse to believe that you're truly that naive.

    I'll say again that what happened in West Virginia was a case of gross negligence. I will give them credit for owning up to the mistake, and trying to make changes to ensure that an event of this magnitude doesn't happen again - something that must occur for their longevity as well as for the protection of their citizens.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 04-08-2013 at 01:07 PM.
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    Maybe they were raising money for something they couldn't spend the other money on. In our dept. we have two budgets, a city budget and a county budget. We get 2500 dollars to cover 2040 square miles. So while our city budget is always brimming, we cant use that money for county fire purposes, so we do fund raisers. While I still think they should have gone to the fire to help in what ever way they could of, it sounded like they were kinda out of service due to how many officers could not respond. If our officers are gone for training, the neighboring dept. is notified and will respond with the first page. I don't know if that was the case here but that is how it should work in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    I might not have moved far enough across the table, but regardless, a few years knocking down 600K per year should have any small volunteer department set for a very, VERY long time.

    If they had fuel in the tanks and equipment that worked, I don't care if they were overdrawn by a billion dollars. They should have gone to that fire.
    600k per year sounds like a lot....what were their expenses? Were they in the process of new building? Are they purchasing their trucks? Being that the report shows their assets and liabilities....they are not sitting in the flush with funds....they are heading deeper into red.

    I am not defending their lack of response.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Maybe they were raising money for something they couldn't spend the other money on. In our dept. we have two budgets, a city budget and a county budget. We get 2500 dollars to cover 2040 square miles. So while our city budget is always brimming, we cant use that money for county fire purposes, so we do fund raisers. While I still think they should have gone to the fire to help in what ever way they could of, it sounded like they were kinda out of service due to how many officers could not respond. If our officers are gone for training, the neighboring dept. is notified and will respond with the first page. I don't know if that was the case here but that is how it should work in my opinion.
    Same story around me. We own our firehouse. The town owns the trucks and equipment. Town gives us a budget to maintain their trucks and equipment. WE are responsible for the building (electric, water, gas, etc) and now the rebuilding of it due to Sandy. Separate budgets....separate balances....separate funding sources.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Being that the report shows their assets and liabilities....they are not sitting in the flush with funds....they are heading deeper into red.
    They've spent an obscene amount of money somewhere, that's for sure.
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    I still don't recall any indication of exactly who was at bingo, aside from the apparently no-longer-actively-responding member who suggested that the others not go.

    There were indications in some reports that none of their certified firefighters were available.

    I'm sure the censure would be just as strong if they had showed up but hadn't taken an offensive stance. Although at least they would have showed up.

    That said, I totally agree: they should have at least made a showing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    They've spent an obscene amount of money somewhere, that's for sure.
    from one of the links above....."leasing Beckley Motor Speedway. It lost $35,000, and all revenues were used to pay racers and make improvements."

    Sounds like they were involved with another property which would account for the large income and expense activity. although a losing property.....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    The more that I read the articles from the original post....the more I wonder if the FF members even knew there was a call? Did the non-ff member receive the call by phone, make the decision, and not even let the others know?
    Last edited by Bones42; 04-08-2013 at 11:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    The more that I read the articles from the original post....the more I wonder if the FF members even knew there was a call? Did the non-ff member receive the call by phone, make the decision, and not even let the others know?
    I thought it was bad enough that these jokers actually thought they had a choice whether to respond or not, now you are hypothesizing that maybe every one of these "firefighters" either choose to have their pagers off, or where instructed to do so. Hence maybe not knowing they had a fire. Oh, thats much better, some real professionals there.....
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    Bones42, Sorry to hear about your station. I hope you guys are doing okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Oh, thats much better, some real professionals there.....
    Au contraire, I think Bones is saying that makes it worse...
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    What I am saying is that I don't know how this department in WV receives their calls. My station has a siren on top of the building that sounds when there is a call. Many members don't bring their pagers with them to the firehouse since they are already at the firehouse. At times, the siren is turned off due to a function going on in the building and the dispatchers use the direct phone to call the building. If a non-ff member answered the phone and made that decision, my members would not know any different.

    Of course, I don't have any non-ff members so it can't happen in my area. We also have 2 stations so the other station would have responded.

    But I (and most of us here) don't know all the details of this WV department and how this call was received and NOT responded to.

    It's a pretty simple case. They had an issue. They investigated it, found a cause, made some adjustments to avoid that cause in the future. Now they get the fun of being criticized "globally" by a bunch of people who don't know all the facts of the story. (hmm, isn't there another thread on here about social media and ff's?)
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Just want to throw out there , this isn't the first time the department has had issues. I find it hard to believe that there wasn't some sort of plan in place to provide coverage. And again , it just seems to point to me that the emphasis of this department is fund raising as opposed to providing a service. I feel that if you are going to represent yourself as a "fire department" - that should be priority one. And if fund raising activities interfere with providing a service, you need to find a different source, or scale back to live within your means.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    What I am saying is that I don't know how this department in WV receives their calls. My station has a siren on top of the building that sounds when there is a call. Many members don't bring their pagers with them to the firehouse since they are already at the firehouse. At times, the siren is turned off due to a function going on in the building and the dispatchers use the direct phone to call the building. If a non-ff member answered the phone and made that decision, my members would not know any different.
    Nobody should ever be at the station without a passive means of receiving alarms. In your case, it's the siren; with no siren, people need to have their #$@% pagers on or a base radio in the station.
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    You would assume that.. But you know what they say.

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    Any way you want to spin it, missing a working fire is NOT a simple case or just an issue.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I understand the purpose of the fire service in America is to respond to emergencies. Not play bingo when the bell sounds.
    True indeed. But your consistently broad stroke brushing of ALL volunteer fire departments everytime something happens like this is simply ludicrous and destroys your credibility. It would be no different than everytime a career firefighter was arrested for drug use, or brawling in the firehouse, or being drunk on duty, or theft, or arson, a volunteer came on here and said that all paid firefighters are criminals. I hate the broad brush because it makes the painter look ignorant, uninformed, and mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    What I am saying is that I don't know how this department in WV receives their calls. My station has a siren on top of the building that sounds when there is a call. Many members don't bring their pagers with them to the firehouse since they are already at the firehouse. At times, the siren is turned off due to a function going on in the building and the dispatchers use the direct phone to call the building.
    Bones, your station doesn't have an alerting/PA system in it to ensure that calls can always be received by all members that are in quarters? Hoping that the siren will sound and not having pagers in quarters seems like quite a gamble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It would be no different than everytime a career firefighter was arrested for drug use, or brawling in the firehouse, or being drunk on duty, or theft, or arson, a volunteer came on here and said that all paid firefighters are criminals. I hate the broad brush because it makes the painter look ignorant, uninformed, and mean.
    Career guys don't need any more. We've got enough with the public safety Nazis and certain elected officials, who are looking for another term, slinging butt mud at us about "lavish pensions for those lazy overpaid firemen that us hardworking taxpayers pay for".

    So I kinda chillax a little during the other department beat downs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggriffc12 View Post
    you would assume that.. But you know what they say.
    bingo!!!. ? :d:d:d
    Last edited by Miller337; 04-09-2013 at 10:58 PM. Reason: I like bacon.

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