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Thread: Staying at Bingo instead of responding to structure fire

  1. #51
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    Just don't know enough about the situation to comment one way or another.

    And yes, volunteers do have a choice to respond.

    There have been times that I have been in the station, and for whatever reason - fatigue, having to get up early for work or simply having to be somewhere in a short period of time, have not responded to a run, including a structure fire or two. There are simply times that you have very valid reasons for not responding.

    Don't know what the situation here was there simply isn't enough information provided.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-09-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just don't know enough about the situation to comment one way or another.

    And yes, volunteers do have a choice to respond.

    There have been times that I have been in the station, and for whatever reason - fatigue, having to get up early for work or simply having to be somewhere in a short period of time, have not responded to a run, including a structure fire or two. There are simply times that you have very valid reasons for not responding.

    Don't know what the situation here was there simply isn't enough information provided.
    If there had been a valid reason, the PIO would have said so in his apology. Instead, he said a non-firefighting member told them not to respond. That's enough information for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Bones, your station doesn't have an alerting/PA system in it to ensure that calls can always be received by all members that are in quarters? Hoping that the siren will sound and not having pagers in quarters seems like quite a gamble.
    There is no Hoping the siren will sound....it does, unless it's disabled for a function. And if the siren is, the building paging system would be as well. Most likely an officer would have their radio on, but in the WV case.....their officers apparently weren't there.

    Glad some of you are so perfect that guys never forget something and guys never make mistakes. I still live in the real world.

    When someone can point me to all the facts of this WV case to review, maybe then I'll attack these guys. Until then, I'll go with it was a mistake, they learned from it and made corrective actions.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    There is no Hoping the siren will sound....it does, unless it's disabled for a function. And if the siren is, the building paging system would be as well. Most likely an officer would have their radio on, but in the WV case.....their officers apparently weren't there.
    Wasn't throwing stones, Bones. I'd just hate for your members to miss a call because the siren/paging system had been disabled for a function and someone forgot to bring a radio or pager in.

    Glad some of you are so perfect that guys never forget something and guys never make mistakes. I still live in the real world.

    When someone can point me to all the facts of this WV case to review, maybe then I'll attack these guys. Until then, I'll go with it was a mistake, they learned from it and made corrective actions.
    I'd argue that this was more than a mistake, it was negligence. But, as I said in an earlier post, I applaud them for owning up to what happened and making corrective actions to see that it doesn't happen again in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just don't know enough about the situation to comment one way or another.

    And yes, volunteers do have a choice to respond.

    There have been times that I have been in the station, and for whatever reason - fatigue, having to get up early for work or simply having to be somewhere in a short period of time, have not responded to a run, including a structure fire or two. There are simply times that you have very valid reasons for not responding.

    Don't know what the situation here was there simply isn't enough information provided.
    Let's see:

    1) They had a fire in their response area.
    2) The fire department didn't respond because a non-firefighter member told them not to.
    3) Other fire departments responded in and fought the fire.

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    I would hate to classify the lack of response as negligence. I would also hate to think the members said "Oh well, it is just a trailer house, BINGO!" I read that some of the officers were gone and some were sick, as well as some of the members. I really wish they had gone to the scene to help however they could like stretch hose, set up a porta tank, whatever. I would like to see some numbers on the mutual aid response, whether or not the Chief or someone told the other depts. to respond. Heck, maybe the only ones at the firehouse running the bingo were Juniors or probies. Hard to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I would hate to classify the lack of response as negligence.
    In law, the definition of negligence is failure to act when one has a duty to do so. I think a fire department would be judged in court to have a duty to act when there is a fire. They are lucky if they are not sued.

    And Bones, you appear to have enough redundancy that you're covered. I do find it a bit bizarre that guys don't carry pagers when they know they're going to the station (what happens if there's a fire while they're driving to or from the barn?), but it makes no difference what you do as long as you have a 100% failsafe system for receiving alarms.

    As I noted, had there been an equipment failure or something else tolerable that went wrong, I'm sure the PIO would have brought that out in his comments. His statement seems to me an acknowledgement of error on their part and, fortunately, an expression of intent to avoid such a situation again.
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    Our guys working bingo would also stay and work bingo.

    We have enough manpower to staff what needs to be staffed and run bingo (we need 4 guys to run the games).

    Bingo keeps the lights on at the station and is a critical part of our budget. If the town wants to come up with another 60-75k we'd be glad to give it up.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    ...(what happens if there's a fire while they're driving to or from the barn?)...
    In our case....that would normally be about a 2 minute drive at most.....small area, guys live close.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    In law, the definition of negligence is failure to act when one has a duty to do so. I think a fire department would be judged in court to have a duty to act when there is a fire. They are lucky if they are not sued.
    You are speaking in generalities unless you know the specific state laws...

    As I noted, had there been an equipment failure or something else tolerable that went wrong, I'm sure the PIO would have brought that out in his comments. His statement seems to me an acknowledgement of error on their part and, fortunately, an expression of intent to avoid such a situation again.
    With public statements of this type, less is more. You cannot make a judgement based on what was not said.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    There is no Hoping the siren will sound....it does, unless it's disabled for a function. And if the siren is, the building paging system would be as well. Most likely an officer would have their radio on, but in the WV case.....their officers apparently weren't there.

    Glad some of you are so perfect that guys never forget something and guys never make mistakes. I still live in the real world.

    When someone can point me to all the facts of this WV case to review, maybe then I'll attack these guys. Until then, I'll go with it was a mistake, they learned from it and made corrective actions.
    Your systems of receieving calls has way too many possible loopholes for something to go wrong. Tone the pagers, set off the siren, etc. on EVERY call. I would bet a paycheck Mr. ISO would tell you the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Your systems of receieving calls has way too many possible loopholes for something to go wrong. Tone the pagers, set off the siren, etc. on EVERY call. I would bet a paycheck Mr. ISO would tell you the same.
    Yes, it's a very complicated system. A caller dials 911 and gets routed to my local police department (dispatcher), caller tells them there is a fire emergency. Dispatcher clicks their mouse on Fire Call on the dispatch desk. Tone goes out over the radio system that sets off pagers, siren on 1 building, and Federal Speaker horn by other building. If the dispatcher is capable, he will make an announcement as to what the call is and where. Yup, it's a tough process.

    Mr. ISO has been here 3 times in my "career". He's had no issues with any of it.

    PS - when I first started, we had these confusing pull boxes on some telephone polls....you pull the handle and the FD shows up. It was magic.

    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I dont think I would let the ISO rater know that I turned off part off my dispatch system. I know years back we had aan issue with new pagers that you could turn to our "talk around". Their reasoning was you could forget to switch it back and miss a page.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post

    PS - when I first started, we had these confusing pull boxes on some telephone polls....you pull the handle and the FD shows up. It was magic.

    Mr. Bones sir, when you arrived on scene did you tie the horses to the pole or did you have a horsie attendent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I dont think I would let the ISO rater know that I turned off part off my dispatch system. I know years back we had aan issue with new pagers that you could turn to our "talk around". Their reasoning was you could forget to switch it back and miss a page.
    Mr. ISO even knows that at certain hours of the night, for most calls....that part that can be turned off doesn't sound. Public complained about the siren sounding at night, so it is not used between 11pm and 7am unless calls of a certain nature are received. And Mr. ISO said "Ok". Just like how in many fire stations these days....there is no building siren at all....and yet they still answer calls.....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Mr. Bones sir, when you arrived on scene did you tie the horses to the pole or did you have a horsie attendent?


    Thanks for the laugh.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Whenever my POC dept. is putting on a function, (fish fry, golf outing, etc.) we have guys assigned to different trucks so depending on the call, we still have people left to manage the event. At our larger events, we also have spouses, family members, and even township trustees that can manage things if we have a call that takes all the firefighters. As for "certified firefighters", other that being checked off for driving each truck, our members can go on any run, they have at a minimum the state basic certification to be a Vol. FF. Only 3 or 4 newer members haven't been approved to drive all the trucks yet, and they probably will be by the end of the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Whenever my POC dept. is putting on a function, (fish fry, golf outing, etc.) we have guys assigned to different trucks so depending on the call, we still have people left to manage the event.
    Exactly. Based on the financial info we've seen, this bunch clearly is into bingo in a big way. Because they do it so regularly, they should have had a contingency plan.
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    agreed -its not like this was a one in a million event that couldnt be planned for. I see this in my area a lot, some depts can cook a hog to perfection, but cant perform the basics. Their concept of "serving the public" means "do you want pickles with that" ? I know more than most, how important funding is, but when it becomes more important than performing your duties, its time to take a hard look at things.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Thanks for the laugh.
    Thats what I'm here for.

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