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Thread: Staying at Bingo instead of responding to structure fire

  1. #41
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Oh, thats much better, some real professionals there.....
    Au contraire, I think Bones is saying that makes it worse...
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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  2. #42
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    What I am saying is that I don't know how this department in WV receives their calls. My station has a siren on top of the building that sounds when there is a call. Many members don't bring their pagers with them to the firehouse since they are already at the firehouse. At times, the siren is turned off due to a function going on in the building and the dispatchers use the direct phone to call the building. If a non-ff member answered the phone and made that decision, my members would not know any different.

    Of course, I don't have any non-ff members so it can't happen in my area. We also have 2 stations so the other station would have responded.

    But I (and most of us here) don't know all the details of this WV department and how this call was received and NOT responded to.

    It's a pretty simple case. They had an issue. They investigated it, found a cause, made some adjustments to avoid that cause in the future. Now they get the fun of being criticized "globally" by a bunch of people who don't know all the facts of the story. (hmm, isn't there another thread on here about social media and ff's?)
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  3. #43
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    Just want to throw out there , this isn't the first time the department has had issues. I find it hard to believe that there wasn't some sort of plan in place to provide coverage. And again , it just seems to point to me that the emphasis of this department is fund raising as opposed to providing a service. I feel that if you are going to represent yourself as a "fire department" - that should be priority one. And if fund raising activities interfere with providing a service, you need to find a different source, or scale back to live within your means.
    ?

  4. #44
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    What I am saying is that I don't know how this department in WV receives their calls. My station has a siren on top of the building that sounds when there is a call. Many members don't bring their pagers with them to the firehouse since they are already at the firehouse. At times, the siren is turned off due to a function going on in the building and the dispatchers use the direct phone to call the building. If a non-ff member answered the phone and made that decision, my members would not know any different.
    Nobody should ever be at the station without a passive means of receiving alarms. In your case, it's the siren; with no siren, people need to have their #$@% pagers on or a base radio in the station.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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    You would assume that.. But you know what they say.

  6. #46
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Any way you want to spin it, missing a working fire is NOT a simple case or just an issue.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I understand the purpose of the fire service in America is to respond to emergencies. Not play bingo when the bell sounds.
    True indeed. But your consistently broad stroke brushing of ALL volunteer fire departments everytime something happens like this is simply ludicrous and destroys your credibility. It would be no different than everytime a career firefighter was arrested for drug use, or brawling in the firehouse, or being drunk on duty, or theft, or arson, a volunteer came on here and said that all paid firefighters are criminals. I hate the broad brush because it makes the painter look ignorant, uninformed, and mean.
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  8. #48
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    What I am saying is that I don't know how this department in WV receives their calls. My station has a siren on top of the building that sounds when there is a call. Many members don't bring their pagers with them to the firehouse since they are already at the firehouse. At times, the siren is turned off due to a function going on in the building and the dispatchers use the direct phone to call the building.
    Bones, your station doesn't have an alerting/PA system in it to ensure that calls can always be received by all members that are in quarters? Hoping that the siren will sound and not having pagers in quarters seems like quite a gamble.
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  9. #49
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It would be no different than everytime a career firefighter was arrested for drug use, or brawling in the firehouse, or being drunk on duty, or theft, or arson, a volunteer came on here and said that all paid firefighters are criminals. I hate the broad brush because it makes the painter look ignorant, uninformed, and mean.
    Career guys don't need any more. We've got enough with the public safety Nazis and certain elected officials, who are looking for another term, slinging butt mud at us about "lavish pensions for those lazy overpaid firemen that us hardworking taxpayers pay for".

    So I kinda chillax a little during the other department beat downs.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggriffc12 View Post
    you would assume that.. But you know what they say.
    bingo!!!. ? :d:d:d
    Last edited by Miller337; 04-09-2013 at 09:58 PM. Reason: I like bacon.

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    Just don't know enough about the situation to comment one way or another.

    And yes, volunteers do have a choice to respond.

    There have been times that I have been in the station, and for whatever reason - fatigue, having to get up early for work or simply having to be somewhere in a short period of time, have not responded to a run, including a structure fire or two. There are simply times that you have very valid reasons for not responding.

    Don't know what the situation here was there simply isn't enough information provided.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-09-2013 at 10:17 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  12. #52
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just don't know enough about the situation to comment one way or another.

    And yes, volunteers do have a choice to respond.

    There have been times that I have been in the station, and for whatever reason - fatigue, having to get up early for work or simply having to be somewhere in a short period of time, have not responded to a run, including a structure fire or two. There are simply times that you have very valid reasons for not responding.

    Don't know what the situation here was there simply isn't enough information provided.
    If there had been a valid reason, the PIO would have said so in his apology. Instead, he said a non-firefighting member told them not to respond. That's enough information for me.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Bones, your station doesn't have an alerting/PA system in it to ensure that calls can always be received by all members that are in quarters? Hoping that the siren will sound and not having pagers in quarters seems like quite a gamble.
    There is no Hoping the siren will sound....it does, unless it's disabled for a function. And if the siren is, the building paging system would be as well. Most likely an officer would have their radio on, but in the WV case.....their officers apparently weren't there.

    Glad some of you are so perfect that guys never forget something and guys never make mistakes. I still live in the real world.

    When someone can point me to all the facts of this WV case to review, maybe then I'll attack these guys. Until then, I'll go with it was a mistake, they learned from it and made corrective actions.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #54
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    There is no Hoping the siren will sound....it does, unless it's disabled for a function. And if the siren is, the building paging system would be as well. Most likely an officer would have their radio on, but in the WV case.....their officers apparently weren't there.
    Wasn't throwing stones, Bones. I'd just hate for your members to miss a call because the siren/paging system had been disabled for a function and someone forgot to bring a radio or pager in.

    Glad some of you are so perfect that guys never forget something and guys never make mistakes. I still live in the real world.

    When someone can point me to all the facts of this WV case to review, maybe then I'll attack these guys. Until then, I'll go with it was a mistake, they learned from it and made corrective actions.
    I'd argue that this was more than a mistake, it was negligence. But, as I said in an earlier post, I applaud them for owning up to what happened and making corrective actions to see that it doesn't happen again in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just don't know enough about the situation to comment one way or another.

    And yes, volunteers do have a choice to respond.

    There have been times that I have been in the station, and for whatever reason - fatigue, having to get up early for work or simply having to be somewhere in a short period of time, have not responded to a run, including a structure fire or two. There are simply times that you have very valid reasons for not responding.

    Don't know what the situation here was there simply isn't enough information provided.
    Let's see:

    1) They had a fire in their response area.
    2) The fire department didn't respond because a non-firefighter member told them not to.
    3) Other fire departments responded in and fought the fire.

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    I would hate to classify the lack of response as negligence. I would also hate to think the members said "Oh well, it is just a trailer house, BINGO!" I read that some of the officers were gone and some were sick, as well as some of the members. I really wish they had gone to the scene to help however they could like stretch hose, set up a porta tank, whatever. I would like to see some numbers on the mutual aid response, whether or not the Chief or someone told the other depts. to respond. Heck, maybe the only ones at the firehouse running the bingo were Juniors or probies. Hard to say.

  17. #57
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I would hate to classify the lack of response as negligence.
    In law, the definition of negligence is failure to act when one has a duty to do so. I think a fire department would be judged in court to have a duty to act when there is a fire. They are lucky if they are not sued.

    And Bones, you appear to have enough redundancy that you're covered. I do find it a bit bizarre that guys don't carry pagers when they know they're going to the station (what happens if there's a fire while they're driving to or from the barn?), but it makes no difference what you do as long as you have a 100% failsafe system for receiving alarms.

    As I noted, had there been an equipment failure or something else tolerable that went wrong, I'm sure the PIO would have brought that out in his comments. His statement seems to me an acknowledgement of error on their part and, fortunately, an expression of intent to avoid such a situation again.
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  18. #58
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    Our guys working bingo would also stay and work bingo.

    We have enough manpower to staff what needs to be staffed and run bingo (we need 4 guys to run the games).

    Bingo keeps the lights on at the station and is a critical part of our budget. If the town wants to come up with another 60-75k we'd be glad to give it up.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    ...(what happens if there's a fire while they're driving to or from the barn?)...
    In our case....that would normally be about a 2 minute drive at most.....small area, guys live close.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    In law, the definition of negligence is failure to act when one has a duty to do so. I think a fire department would be judged in court to have a duty to act when there is a fire. They are lucky if they are not sued.
    You are speaking in generalities unless you know the specific state laws...

    As I noted, had there been an equipment failure or something else tolerable that went wrong, I'm sure the PIO would have brought that out in his comments. His statement seems to me an acknowledgement of error on their part and, fortunately, an expression of intent to avoid such a situation again.
    With public statements of this type, less is more. You cannot make a judgement based on what was not said.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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