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Thread: Automatic Fire Alarm Elevator Use.

  1. #1
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    Question Automatic Fire Alarm Elevator Use.

    A couple questions, I am wondering what your SOGs are for elevator use when investigating automatic fire alarms (no signs of smoke of flame)?
    Do you put the elevator in fire service mode or ride it up regularly?
    Do you take the elevator to a floor below the fire floor, if so, how many floors below the fire floor?
    Does anyone have SOG's they would be willing to share on elevator use for auto alarms?

    Thanks!
    tegan_mckeller likes this.

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    Default Elevator "Shunt Trip" Circuit Hazards

    Please be aware that starting the mid 90s elevators in fully auto sprinklered buildings were constructed with a circuit that electricians call a "shunt trip." The circuit gets it's name from the characteristic that it "shunts", or redirects, some of the current from the circuit breaker supplying power to the elevator circuits to a solenoid located inside the breakers case. That solenoid trips the breaker to the open position. The purpose of the circuit is to insure that the elevator machinery will be de-energized prior to the discharge of water from automatic sprinklers that are located in elevator shafts and machine rooms. Let me emphasize that none of this is effected by what mode of service the elevator is in. In can be under automatic, local control, inspection, and, yes even, fire service control and the shunt trip circuit will still operate. If this should occur while firefighters are in the elevator cab; and that cab is not at a floor landing with it's door open; then the elevator cab becomes a coffin on a tube or a coffin on cables.

    The circuit is initiated by heat detectors that are located adjacent to the sprinkler heads located in elevator shafts and machine rooms. The detectors are selected to operate at a lower temperature than the temperature at which the sprinkler head will open and discharge water. Once the shunt trip solenoid is energized there is no way to restore power to the elevator equipment. Any attempt to re-close the circuit breaker will re-energize the solenoid and trip the breaker to the open position immediately.

    For the first six years of the rule's application there was no requirement to integrate that circuit with the elevator's fire alarm recall system. The earliest version of this circuit provided no warning of any kind prior to the operation of the circuit. When one of the heat detectors operates all power to the elevators is lost. Thousands of elevators were constructed under that first version of the shunt trip rule.

    The second version of the rule required that the circuit had to include delayed operation and a warning light located in the cab. The warning light is often inscrutably labeled "Shunt Trip" The label may not be visible until the warning light comes on. Once that warning light illuminates you have only a brief time prior to the operation of the shunt trip circuit. The required delay was one minute. There was still no integration with the elevator controls. If you use an elevator that was constructed under this second version of the rule the safety of everyone in the cab will depend of someone knowing which light to monitor and their stopping of the elevator immediately at the next floor of travel so that everyone can leave the cab. In all but the fastest elevators you may not have time to return to the floor from which you entered the cab.

    Later versions of the rule required that these circuits be integrated with the elevator controls and automatically return the elevator to it's primary or alternate floor before shutting down all power to the elevator equipment. Although that avoids trapping firefighters in the elevator cab it can leave the initial attack team isolated several stories above the street with no backup, RIT, or any help whatsoever. In the event a firefighter or civilian has to be evacuated it will not be possible to use the elevator to do so.

    Your SOP should require that the machine rooms and the shafts be checked prior to firefighters use of the elevators. That will be especially challenging in the case or top traction elevators were the machine rooms are located in a penthouse on the roof. In any operation that will be out of reach of your departments aerial apparatus were the elevators were constructed under the later versions of the shunt trip rule you should wait until your back up line and RIT is in position prior to committing your crew to the Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health (IDLH) environment.

    The take away message is that you must have someone watching the conditions in the machine room and the shaft before depending on continued functioning of the elevators for firefighter safety. The wild land firefighter's mantra of Lookouts, Communications, Escape routes, Safety zones or LCES applies here.
    L) You must post lookouts in the machine room and some place were they can monitor conditions in the shaft.
    C) They must have an effective means of Communications with the crews in the elevator cabs.
    E) Crews using the elevators should be trained on any Escape pathway out of the cabs and have the means to use it. That might include having an attic ladder or escape ropes in the cab and the means to open the doors to a floor landing that they can reach using them.
    S) The Safety zone is a place that the attack crews can retreat to if the use of the elevators is lost and they cannot mitigate the emergency with the resources already at the entry points to the IDLH operational area.

    I tried to alert firefighters to this hazard when this rules first came out but I could not get any interest going on the issue locally or elsewhere.

    --
    Tom Horne
    Last edited by ht8687; 04-10-2013 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Orgnization and clarity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ht8687 View Post
    Please be aware that starting the mid 90s elevators in fully auto sprinklered buildings were constructed with a circuit that electricians call a "shunt trip." The circuit gets it's name from the characteristic that it "shunts", or redirects, some of the current from the circuit breaker supplying power to the elevator circuits to a solenoid located inside the breakers case. That solenoid trips the breaker to the open position. The purpose of the circuit is to insure that the elevator machinery will be de-energized prior to the discharge of water from automatic sprinklers that are located in elevator shafts and machine rooms. Let me emphasize that none of this is effected by what mode of service the elevator is in. In can be under automatic, local control, inspection, and, yes even, fire service control and the shunt trip circuit will still operate. If this should occur while firefighters are in the elevator cab; and that cab is not at a floor landing with it's door open; then the elevator cab becomes a coffin on a tube or a coffin on cables.

    The circuit is initiated by heat detectors that are located adjacent to the sprinkler heads located in elevator shafts and machine rooms. The detectors are selected to operate at a lower temperature than the temperature at which the sprinkler head will open and discharge water. Once the shunt trip solenoid is energized there is no way to restore power to the elevator equipment. Any attempt to re-close the circuit breaker will re-energize the solenoid and trip the breaker to the open position immediately.

    For the first six years of the rule's application there was no requirement to integrate that circuit with the elevator's fire alarm recall system. The earliest version of this circuit provided no warning of any kind prior to the operation of the circuit. When one of the heat detectors operates all power to the elevators is lost. Thousands of elevators were constructed under that first version of the shunt trip rule.

    The second version of the rule required that the circuit had to include delayed operation and a warning light located in the cab. The warning light is often inscrutably labeled "Shunt Trip" The label may not be visible until the warning light comes on. Once that warning light illuminates you have only a brief time prior to the operation of the shunt trip circuit. The required delay was one minute. There was still no integration with the elevator controls. If you use an elevator that was constructed under this second version of the rule the safety of everyone in the cab will depend of someone knowing which light to monitor and their stopping of the elevator immediately at the next floor of travel so that everyone can leave the cab. In all but the fastest elevators you may not have time to return to the floor from which you entered the cab.

    Later versions of the rule required that these circuits be integrated with the elevator controls and automatically return the elevator to it's primary or alternate floor before shutting down all power to the elevator equipment. Although that avoids trapping firefighters in the elevator cab it can leave the initial attack team isolated several stories above the street with no backup, RIT, or any help whatsoever. In the event a firefighter or civilian has to be evacuated it will not be possible to use the elevator to do so.

    Your SOP should require that the machine rooms and the shafts be checked prior to firefighters use of the elevators. That will be especially challenging in the case or top traction elevators were the machine rooms are located in a penthouse on the roof. In any operation that will be out of reach of your departments aerial apparatus were the elevators were constructed under the later versions of the shunt trip rule you should wait until your back up line and RIT is in position prior to committing your crew to the Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health (IDLH) environment.

    The take away message is that you must have someone watching the conditions in the machine room and the shaft before depending on continued functioning of the elevators for firefighter safety. The wild land firefighter's mantra of Lookouts, Communications, Escape routes, Safety zones or LCES applies here.
    L) You must post lookouts in the machine room and some place were they can monitor conditions in the shaft.
    C) They must have an effective means of Communications with the crews in the elevator cabs.
    E) Crews using the elevators should be trained on any Escape pathway out of the cabs and have the means to use it. That might include having an attic ladder or escape ropes in the cab and the means to open the doors to a floor landing that they can reach using them.
    S) The Safety zone is a place that the attack crews can retreat to if the use of the elevators is lost and they cannot mitigate the emergency with the resources already at the entry points to the IDLH operational area.

    I tried to alert firefighters to this hazard when this rules first came out but I could not get any interest going on the issue locally or elsewhere.

    --
    Tom Horne


    Do you have some code references for these different scenarios

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    I have seen some ahj's not require a sprinkler head in the shaft due to construction type. So no head no shunt trip.

    Or if a head is there a smoke detector is next to the heat detector. So hopefully the detector goes off first and recalls the elevator prior to the heat detector going off and killing power.

    If you can reset the fire alarm the shunt trip should be able to be reset, in the set ups I have seen.

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    If anyone is interested I found LAFD's elevator usage manual, a ton of good info in it. I would still love to hear what other dept's do. Here is their manual http://lafdtraining.org/ists/tb140v0610.pdf

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    Default Here you go

    I teach elevators for Firefighters and wrote an SOP for our Department. Unfortunately it appears to be to large to upload to this forum. Feel free to e-mail me for a copy.

    The LA document was a very good comprehensive training document but I think you were looking for a what do I do if I get a call type SOP.

    Keep one thing in mind about the rule of not taking the elevator to the fire floor. It's not always true. If you have one of those buildings where the hallway the elevator opens to is on the outside then feel free to take the elevator to the fire floor. The issue is if it's an enclosed hallway or not. Many condos here in Florida have hallways open to the outside and it is not a problem riding the elevator to the fire floor.

    Let me know if you want any training or need anything else.

    Lou Sclafani
    wcfr1@aol.com

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    On an alarms sounding with no report of smoke or fire, the first due engine goes to the alarm panel to check what floor the alarm is coming in on. The truck company puts the elevator into fire service and takes the elevator to that floor for recon. Second due engine stages outside by the FDC. This is a 2 and 1 response for us.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB-KTF

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    In a large building you often will not see smoke/flame even if it is present. I believe a procedure should be set up based on safety of members. If Fireman's Service is present it should be used. Take car to two floors below reported location. This way if there is a malfunction and car does not stop rising you have a chance to do something to stop it manually (elevator controls or force doors apart) before you end up on fire floor.
    I think every department should set up their own policy based on staffing and local buildings encountered.
    RFDACM02 likes this.

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    Nowadays it can be seen that there is a wide spread of cell phones especially smart phone.We have to admit that the mobile phone make our modern life better and more convenient.However the cell phone sometimes cause new problems and breaks up people's peaceful life.To create a quiet condition, the mobile phone blocker can help a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommywhite View Post
    Nowadays it can be seen that there is a wide spread of cell phones especially smart phone.We have to admit that the mobile phone make our modern life better and more convenient.However the cell phone sometimes cause new problems and breaks up people's peaceful life.To create a quiet condition, the mobile phone blocker can help a lot.
    WTF? Go away.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    In regards to the post - if there is no signs of fire and no one leaving the building saying its on fire we will use the elevator.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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