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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Thank you for continuing to confirm the pathetic nature of you and your FD.

    Please proceed.
    As I have stated before, when your new recruits complete 16 continous weeks of training, 40 hours plus each week, without pay or compensation, will be more than happy to expect the same level of performance from any volunteer.

    Until then, we are on two very different playing fields.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-23-2013 at 07:43 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.


  2. #242
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    Oh heck, I cant believe you said that. Now SC is gonna make some other comment about Volunteers.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Oh heck, I cant believe you said that. Now SC is gonna make some other comment about Volunteers.
    Well it's those of LA's mindset that give what SC says about volunteers validity....
    FyredUp and conrad427 like this.
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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As I have stated before, when your new recruits complete 16 continous weeks of training, 40 hours plus each week, without pay or compensation, will be more than happy to expect the same level of performance from any volunteer.

    Until then, we are on two very different playing fields.
    I couldn't agree more. While you don't claim to be the equivalent of a professional, just know that your commentary about tactics, strategy, and heck just about anything else is on a much lower playing field.
    FyredUp likes this.
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Well it's those of LA's mindset that give what SC says about volunteers validity....
    I can tell you from first hand experience, LAFE is not alone.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #246
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As I have stated before, when your new recruits complete 16 continous weeks of training, 40 hours plus each week, without pay or compensation, will be more than happy to expect the same level of performance from any volunteer.

    Until then, we are on two very different playing fields.
    So why is it with 2 different playing fields, you feel the need to interject your sub-par standards on to what us professionals have been doing for years? How does one operating at a much lower performance level and expectation feel they have the need to comment, judge, and openly criticize the tactics of my trained, skilled professional department? I know; Ego, party of 1, your table is ready....
    Stick to handing out coloring books and teaching people how to change their smoke detector batteries. Firefighting or fire ground command is definitely not a skill set you possess.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Well it's those of LA's mindset that give what SC says about volunteers validity....
    What mindset is that?

    That volunteers have limited time to train, compared to career members, who are paid to attend initial training and are paid to attend continuing training, and as such should be expected to meet targeted training standards specific to their operations, occupancies, apparatus and tasks?

    Our personnel are expected to meet realistic standards with our operations, not standards regarding operations that we likely never will be expected to perform.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I can tell you from first hand experience, LAFE is not alone.
    Well when you see those running with the "everybody goes home" torch, the failure of the NVFC to address firefighter arson or fight for a mandated standard to say the least, I have to agree.
    It's to be expected when we are raising an entire generation who is given participant trophies in lieu of learning the lessons of loosing.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I couldn't agree more. While you don't claim to be the equivalent of a professional, just know that your commentary about tactics, strategy, and heck just about anything else is on a much lower playing field.
    I have no interest in commenting on shipboard or high-rise firefighting as I have no training in such.

    However, if you want to discuss mobile home, barn and Main St USA firefighting, have at it. I likely have as much training in my specific area as any career member around, and that was before I was hired as a career.

    And that is true for many other volunteers.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Well when you see those running with the "everybody goes home" torch, the failure of the NVFC to address firefighter arson or fight for a mandated standard to say the least, I have to agree.
    It's to be expected when we are raising an entire generation who is given participant trophies in lieu of learning the lessons of loosing.
    We have had this discussion before.

    When there is a national standard that truly addresses the needs of the rural and small community firefighter, as compared to the vanilla cover-all-the-bases hodge podge of FFI, I'll be more than happy to discuss it and maybe even support it. The fact is FFI in it's current form is to long for most volunteers and far too generic to be practical as a requirement for the volunteer fire service.

    There simply is too little relevance to the rural and small community firefighter in FFI. Eliminate the need for Operations level haz-mat certification to test, and develop a Rural FFI with more time spent on rural water operations, agricultural structural operations, brush fire operations and the like and less time on alarms, sprinklers, standpipes, Type I building operations and the like, and there is a good chance I'll be on board.

    I am fully into department developed rookie training programs, including FFI and FFII if the department leadership chooses that as it's standard and is aware of the consequences of that choice on recruiting and retention. I fully support department training standards, chosen by the department up to and including FFII if they wish, that mandates at least 75% drill attendance. I fully support reasonable outside yearly training requirements of at least 12-18 hours. I have no issue with aggressive training that sorts out the wannabes from those that truly care. But I will fight to the death unreasonable mandates being shoved down the throats of the volunteer fire service that will force departments out of business. It's that damn simple.

    I am not a big supporter of the NVFC myself.

    And as far as firefighter arson, let's not forget that probably the most prolific firefighter arsonist of all time was a career fire investigator named John Orr. Or let's not forget that some of the largest wildfires in this country were set by paid seasonal employees. So let's not go there about volunteer firefighters and arson. just remember, you brought it up, not me.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-23-2013 at 08:47 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #251
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    Double post.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    So why is it with 2 different playing fields, you feel the need to interject your sub-par standards on to what us professionals have been doing for years? How does one operating at a much lower performance level and expectation feel they have the need to comment, judge, and openly criticize the tactics of my trained, skilled professional department? I know; Ego, party of 1, your table is ready....
    Stick to handing out coloring books and teaching people how to change their smoke detector batteries. Firefighting or fire ground command is definitely not a skill set you possess.
    Funny Haha about that last line .... Folks that I know disagree.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny Haha about that last line .... Folks that I know disagree.
    Who disagrees, your Mother? Sometimes when everyone tells you you're wrong, it's actually the truth, maybe you should stop listening to you mom it's her job to make you feel like superman.
    DeputyChiefGonzo likes this.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    However, if you want to discuss mobile home, barn and Main St USA firefighting, have at it. I likely have as much training in my specific area as any career member around, and that was before I was hired as a career.

    And that is true for many other volunteers.
    I highly doubt that. And even if you did, your lack of skill would render all your paper certs useless. I could take a class on making sculptures out of feces, but I would be horrible at it because I'd never do it.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Well it's those of LA's mindset that give what SC says about volunteers validity....
    Yeah, your right. I have worked with plenty.

    But at least LA's guys train. I know some guys that just barely get the state mandated 30 hours.
    Last edited by conrad427; 04-23-2013 at 09:28 PM.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Yeah, your right. I have worked with plenty.
    And so have I.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Train to post the posts you post.
    I think I got it East Ky.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I highly doubt that. And even if you did, your lack of skill would render all your paper certs useless. I could take a class on making sculptures out of feces, but I would be horrible at it because I'd never do it.
    Awww man. My cheesy community college doesn't even offer sh$tart courses, what they do offer is firefighter one and two courses which our members can do through the department to become.......................


    WAIT FOR IT.....................

    FIREFIGHTERS


    I guess they just offer sh$tart in Louisiana. If you decide to pursue a new artistic career, I would recommend that you go to the real masters.
    Last edited by Miller337; 04-23-2013 at 09:38 PM.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Well when you see those running with the "everybody goes home" torch, the failure of the NVFC to address firefighter arson or fight for a mandated standard to say the least, I have to agree.
    It's to be expected when we are raising an entire generation who is given participant trophies in lieu of learning the lessons of loosing.
    I'm a volunteer, so I do have a dog in this fight but I gotta agree with you here. Go to google news and enter "volunteer firefighter" and every third story on there is some sonofabitch sparking a fire so he can respond and prove himself.

    It is definitely a problem that needs addressed.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    I'm a volunteer, so I do have a dog in this fight but I gotta agree with you here. Go to google news and enter "volunteer firefighter" and every third story on there is some sonofabitch sparking a fire so he can respond and prove himself.

    It is definitely a problem that needs addressed.
    Also remember that there are 3 or 4 times the number of volunteer firefighters than career members nationwide.

    Is firefighter arson an issue? Yes. But it is no greater an issue on the volunteer side per capita than it has been on the career and seasonal wildland side.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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