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Thread: Fire Attack photo

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Look super genius you posted this:



    Even a semi-iliterate wannabe like you has to know that bunkering put means putting on your turn-out gear. You know turn-out coat, pants, boots, hood helmet and gloves. It has nothing to do with putting on an scba. You plainly said your guys operated the hoseline THEN bunkers out. Meaning he operated the hoseline with no protective clothing on. Or did you realize how stupid you sounded and have t change what you said, YET AGAIN?
    You are right. I failed.

    Of course, you know exactly what I meant.

    I guess after demonstrtated via video how we would operate the transistional line, and how I proved you wrong that it is perfectly safe form a member in PPE w/out SCBA to operate a transistional line through a burned out section of wall, window or door from a distance you just had to find something to post.

    By the way, IF, and I did say IF, we did allow a member to operate a 2 1/2" line a distance from a structure, what safety hazard would that pose? Just curious.

    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-24-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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  2. #282
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Most volunteer departments don't.

    So would your department pay the wages of a volunteer to attend a 40-hour per week 16-week resident fire academy like career members are paid to attend that training? Do you pay the normal wages of amember who goes away for a week to the NFA?

    I didn't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Not going to comment on my VFD except to say that for the most part they are motivated, willing to train, and the majority of the time they perform well. That being said, experience is an issue as we get very few working incidents, as well as overall manpower for a very small portion of our incidents, which is common issue in small communities in this state.

    By the way, show me where I endorsed undertrained volunteer departments.That being said I acknowledge the reality of undertrained VFDs. I also realize that there will always be such organizations and making FFI a mandated training requirement for active firefighting will not change that. It will only increase the shortage of volunteers.
    More excuses to justify mediocrity.

    I have to give you credit for being consistent.
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  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I can get brand new never had PPE or SCBA volunteers at the end of the 60 hour Entry Level Course getting fully bunkered out and on air in between under one minute and 1:30 consistently...Why are you so eager to accept mediocrity?
    So can about 75% of my VFD.

    I'm not eager to accept mediocrity, but every organization, career, commbo and volunteer, will have members with differing levels of motivation and differing needs to excel.

    Some members will excel. Some members will perform adequatly. Some mebers will consistantly perform poorly and will need to be sent packing. That's just simple human nature.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You are right. I failed.

    Again...

    Of course, you know exactly what I meant.

    I took what you said to be what you meant. Apparently what you say isn't what you mean and the rest of us are suppose to know that bunkering to you means putting on an SCBA, while to the rest of the fire service it means putting on your bunker gear.

    I guess after demonstrtated via video how we would operate the transistional line, and how I proved you wrong that it is perfectly safe form a member in PPE w/out SCBA to operate a transistional line through a burned out section of wall, window or door from a distance you just had to find something to post.

    I never said doing that while wearing bunkers couldn't be done safely. But again you plainly said AFTER he did the transitional 2 1/2 squirt he would be "Bunkering."

    By the way, IF, and I did say IF, we did allow a member to operate a 2 1/2" line a distance from a structure, what safety hazard would that pose? Just curious.

    Depends on what was in the structure doesn't it?

    Have a nice day.
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  5. #285
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So can about 75% of my VFD.

    I'm not eager to accept mediocrity, but every organization, career, commbo and volunteer, will have members with differing levels of motivation and differing needs to excel.

    Some members will excel. Some members will perform adequatly. Some mebers will consistantly perform poorly and will need to be sent packing. That's just simple human nature.
    If you expect nothing more than likely that is exactly what you will get...
    Last edited by FyredUp; 04-24-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If yopu expect nothing more than likely that is exactly what you will get...
    What I expect is that they will train and make thier best effort.

    I expect some will excel in all areas. Some may excel is specific areas. Some will be quite average. And some will do poorly.

    Some of that may be correcred with additional training. Some will remain average. And some will fail, either because of physical issues or attitude issues.

    If they can't put the gear on correctly after repeated training sessions, there's an issue. If they can't put the gear and SCBA on in under 4 minutes after repeated trainings, there's an issue. If it takes 3 minutes, they likely need some work and internal motivation, but we can certainly work them and certainly still use them.

    Again, under 2 minutes is the testing requirement for FFI, which you want to so badly claim is the national standard. If you cliam that 2 minutes is medoicre, does that mean that FFI, your proposed national standard, produces mediocre firefighters?

    Just asking.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-24-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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  7. #287
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    I can think of a reason to be on air when operating outside a structure. I have made the mistake twice of not having an scba on when operating at a trailer house fire. Both times I threw up and had to get oxygen. I was outside in the "safe zone" both times. Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen Cyanide, not good stuff.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    What I expect is that they will train and make thier best effort.

    I expect some will excel in all areas. Some may excel is specific areas. Some will be quite average. And some will do poorly.

    Some of that may be correcred with additional training. Some will remain average. And some will fail, either because of physical issues or attitude issues.

    If they can't put the gear on correctly after repeated training sessions, there's an issue. If they can't put the gear and SCBA on in under 4 minutes after repeated trainings, there's an issue. If it takes 3 minutes, they likely need some work and internal motivation, but we can certainly work them and certainly still use them.

    Again, under 2 minutes is the testing requirement for FFI, which you want to so badly claim is the national standard. If you cliam that 2 minutes is medoicre, does that mean that FFI, your proposed national standard, produces mediocre firefighters?

    Just asking.
    FF1 is a baseline, I have said that all along. Not an end all be all. The fact is the sooner hoselines get deployed and people can mask up and be ready to go the quicker the fire goes out and more lives and property are saved. It really is that simple.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 04-24-2013 at 08:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    FF1 is a basline, I have said that all along. Not an end all be all. The fact is the sooner hoselines get deployed and people can mask up and be ready to go the quicker the fire goes out and more lives and property are saved. It really is that simple.
    Agreed, about the quicker the folks get masked up .......... part.

    My only point is that in the grand scheme of things I'm not going to be overlly concerned about if a member is geared up and packed up and ready to go in 1:30, 2:00, or even quite honestly, 2:30. Longer than that, we'll have a conversation and we'll work on getting the time down through some coaching and practice.

    3:00 and more, we'll have to solve the problem.

    Doing things especially fact is generally not going to be critical in the outcome in my volunteer district. I'm more concerned about it being done right the first time.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-24-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I can think of a reason to be on air when operating outside a structure. I have made the mistake twice of not having an scba on when operating at a trailer house fire. Both times I threw up and had to get oxygen. I was outside in the "safe zone" both times. Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen Cyanide, not good stuff.
    A person operating a handline 40' from a structure will not be affected by either unless the smoke is coming out of the opening and hanging close to the ground.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    What I expect is that they will train and make thier best effort.

    I expect some will excel in all areas. Some may excel is specific areas. Some will be quite average. And some will do poorly.
    Professionals don't expect people to do their best. That's what losers (such as yourself) say. We expect a standard to be met by all.

    Those that don't meet that standard are politely asked to leave.
    Last edited by scfire86; 04-24-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Also remember that there are 3 or 4 times the number of volunteer firefighters than career members nationwide.

    Is firefighter arson an issue? Yes. But it is no greater an issue on the volunteer side per capita than it has been on the career and seasonal wildland side.
    80% of the country is protected by volunteers.
    20% of the country is protected by career firefighters.

    Volunteer FF arson is a huge issue. There was a thread here in the past where I was keeping count based on the stories on the FH.com website and Firegeezer.com Career FF arson, including John Orr accounted for 5 cases.. care to guess who the rest were?
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  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A person operating a handline 40' from a structure will not be affected by either unless the smoke is coming out of the opening and hanging close to the ground.
    God, you are dense. Not all of the products of combustion are visible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    God, you are dense.
    Understatement of the week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    80% of the country is protected by volunteers.
    20% of the country is protected by career firefighters.

    Volunteer FF arson is a huge issue. There was a thread here in the past where I was keeping count based on the stories on the FH.com website and Firegeezer.com Career FF arson, including John Orr accounted for 5 cases.. care to guess who the rest were?
    Never denied that is was an issue among volunteers.

    I think your numbers are skeewed though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Professionals don't expect people to do their best. That's what losers (such as yourself) say. We expect a standard to be met by all.

    Those that don't meet that standard are politely asked to leave.
    And yes, I believe that each volunteer department should develop standards keeping in mind that they are being used to evaluate volunteer, non-compensated personnel.

    I don't believe that they need to be the same standards that are used to evaluate paid members who are trained, on the clock, as part of their full-time employment.
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  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, I believe that each volunteer department should develop standards keeping in mind that they are being used to evaluate volunteer, non-compensated personnel.

    I don't believe that they need to be the same standards that are used to evaluate paid members who are trained, on the clock, as part of their full-time employment.
    Please, for the love of God, stay out of Wisconsin. We have state standards that must be met in order to be a firefighter, a driver, an officer, an inspector, and an instructor. Guess what they don't say anywhere in them volunteer or career. Some are minimum standards some are more advanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Never denied that is was an issue among volunteers.

    I think your numbers are skeewed though.
    Really? I guess you are right... there have been a hell of a lot more cases of volunteer FF arson since the last time I checked the figures.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, I believe that each volunteer department should develop standards keeping in mind that they are being used to evaluate volunteer, non-compensated personnel.

    I don't believe that they need to be the same standards that are used to evaluate paid members who are trained, on the clock, as part of their full-time employment.
    Yes, because we all know fire burns much more kinder and gentler in areas protected by volunteer, non-compensated personnel....
    You really are a tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Really? I guess you are right... there have been a hell of a lot more cases of volunteer FF arson since the last time I checked the figures.
    Well, he does seem to be an authority on being askew Chief.

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