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Thread: Fire Attack photo

  1. #21
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post

    Sometimes the best way to "protect the exposure" is to not putz around and just put the damn fire out!
    Dittos on the dittos. My definition of protecting the exposure on this one is a few quick swipes on the side of the house, then on to the main body of the fire.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC



  2. #22
    Forum Member yjbrody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    He's using a fog stream. Everybody knows a straight stream is better...
    Ubiquitous smooth bore comment to follow...
    Nothing is as unimpressive as someone who is unwilling to learn.

  3. #23
    Forum Member Miller337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I won't disagree that the garage will be probably torn down. That doesn't change my mind about believing that a medium sized hoseline flowing 150 gpm or more can kill this fire pretty quick.
    Grab a donut, you are I.C. I think you are spot on and have a good plan. It is simple to execute with very low risk and if it goes sideways there are lots of good options. 1 3/4 -2 will actually flow over 200 gpm if setup properly.

  4. #24
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    2 inch pre-connect down the driveway to kill that fire and another inside the house to check for extension.
    This. But depending what was on fire, and how much of it was burning when I got a better picture, I would consider using our Class-A foam system as well through the fire attack line only.

    I would have a crew open up the soffit for investigation and depending what was found there, and what the crew inside found, possibly open the roof for further investigation.

    I would also task a crew with a third 2" for exterior exposure protection, depending on what else is near the fire. My bet would be there is some sort of structure to the right of where the fire is in the picture, because that line of bushes looks like it could possibly be a divider between yards/driveways.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  5. #25
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Grab a donut, you are I.C. I think you are spot on and have a good plan. It is simple to execute with very low risk and if it goes sideways there are lots of good options. 1 3/4 -2 will actually flow over 200 gpm if setup properly.
    We have 200gpm at 75psi Elkhart nozzles on all of our lines except one. The other one has a 250gpm at 50psi Elkhart on it.

    On both of our engines, the adjustable stream tip on our crosslays spin off and there is a 1 1/4" slug tip as well. The nozzles on our Pumper/Tanker crosslays spin and there is a 1 1/8" slug tip.

    The 250 at 50 nozzle is on the bumper of our pumper/tanker, and is the only nozzle without a slug tip.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  6. #26
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    JMHO. I wouldn't want to handle a 2 1/2" line for a garage fire. 1 3/4" should be fine.

  7. #27
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    That guy is seeing more fire and doing more then some on these forums.....
    2 pre-connects; one on the main body, one exposures. A truck company in the house to check for extension, overhaul, clean up, 45 minutes start to finish.
    yjbrody likes this.

  8. #28
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    This. But depending what was on fire, and how much of it was burning when I got a better picture, I would consider using our Class-A foam system as well through the fire attack line only.

    Nice idea on the foam and I would do that as well. There is a problem with your plan though in that once you turn the foam on ALL of the pre-connects are foam lines.

    I would have a crew open up the soffit for investigation and depending what was found there, and what the crew inside found, possibly open the roof for further investigation.

    I hope you mean on the house. I am not putting anyone on the roof of the garage. Although, if you pull the soffit and believe you have extension it might be better to pull ceiling inside the house to see what's what in that area.

    I would also task a crew with a third 2" for exterior exposure protection, depending on what else is near the fire. My bet would be there is some sort of structure to the right of where the fire is in the picture, because that line of bushes looks like it could possibly be a divider between yards/driveways.

    Not a bad call, I hadn't considered that possibility.
    Not bad kid. I may make an officer out of you yet!!
    Last edited by FyredUp; 04-15-2013 at 05:27 PM.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyredup View Post
    can i get a hell yeah!! Too often forgot in the tactical checklist world of command.
    hell yeah!!
    Last edited by FireMedic049; 04-15-2013 at 02:11 PM.

  10. #30
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Nice idea on the foam and I would do that as well. There is a problem with your plan though in that once you turn the foam on ALL of the pre-connects are foam lines.
    I thought only one line in each crosslay bed was foam?

    I'd still pull two 2" lines, one to the fire, one to the house, and depending on what was actually burning and how much, use the foam system. I would task exposure control to the second due crew. I would have them connect a 2" to one of the other non-foam discharges (I know it has to be adapted down, adapters are in the operators compartment) on the first due engine and exposure control could be done with just water then. Granted, exposure control might not be necessary if a quick knock down happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I hope you mean on the house. I am not putting anyone on the roof of the garage. Although, if you pull the soffit and believe you have extension it might be better to pull ceiling inside the house to see what's what in that area.
    I do mean the house. I'm not putting anyone on the roof of the garage either. I can't tell from the photo if the soffit is actually burning, or the fire is just forming to the shape of the house. My hope would be that the soffit just shows signs of heat and smoke, and that it was never actually on fire. In which case pulling just the soffit could possibly be enough to check for extension. Then again, maybe not.

    After reading your comment and thinking on it a bit, I'm gonna say I would pull ceiling first instead of opening the roof. I feel it would allow me to better investigate the contents of the attic/void space by pulling ceiling and pulling insulation and whatever else is up there down and pulling it somewhat apart to check it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not bad kid. I may make an officer out of you yet!!
    That's the goal, right? lol
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  11. #31
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    What would my department do?

    We'd complain that the first due mutual aid obviously beat us on scene.
    Chenzo and yjbrody like this.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Discuss what your FD would do in this situation...


    Cheer him on.
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  13. #33
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    I said earlier that it looks like a detached garage, but still looks pretty close. I watched a video last night by Ray McCormack that said in an attached garage the first line should be stretched to the house and the second should attack the garage. I wonder now though if you went into the house first you might have extension into the house by the time you got into position. Even though the fire is impinging on the house I think the first attack line should go right up the drive way. The foam was a good idea. It takes 200 PSI to get our engine to flow foam but two guys can handle it.

  14. #34
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I thought only one line in each crosslay bed was foam?

    Nope all the crosslays, the 2-200 foot bumper crosslays, and the over the pump 2-300 footers are all foam, as are the 2-2 1/2s off the back.


    I'd still pull two 2" lines, one to the fire, one to the house, and depending on what was actually burning and how much, use the foam system. I would task exposure control to the second due crew. I would have them connect a 2" to one of the other non-foam discharges (I know it has to be adapted down, adapters are in the operators compartment) on the first due engine and exposure control could be done with just water then. Granted, exposure control might not be necessary if a quick knock down happens.

    Is there a particular reason why you wouldn't use foam for your exposure line?

    I do mean the house. I'm not putting anyone on the roof of the garage either. I can't tell from the photo if the soffit is actually burning, or the fire is just forming to the shape of the house. My hope would be that the soffit just shows signs of heat and smoke, and that it was never actually on fire. In which case pulling just the soffit could possibly be enough to check for extension. Then again, maybe not.

    After reading your comment and thinking on it a bit, I'm gonna say I would pull ceiling first instead of opening the roof. I feel it would allow me to better investigate the contents of the attic/void space by pulling ceiling and pulling insulation and whatever else is up there down and pulling it somewhat apart to check it.

    My thoughts were if the fire got in there opening the ceiling would allow me to make a quick hit and perhaps knock whatever fire is in there before it spread.


    That's the goal, right? lol

    Indeed it is. Your responsibility to learn is even greater now.
    Still overall a good call on your part.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  15. #35
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    Clearly the big issue here, is thumb over the end vs. smoothbore vs fog.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    Clearly the big issue here, is thumb over the end vs. smoothbore vs fog.
    Garden hose tactics; fold hose over to pinch it off for 3 seconds, then suddenly release. The pressure build up will shoot a slug of water futher for a second. Repeat as necessary. LEARN THIS.
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  17. #37
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Is there a particular reason why you wouldn't use foam for your exposure line?

    No particular reason comes to mind for me, no. Other than conserving the foam. If exposure control has to happen at a quick rate due to impending fire spread to exposures, than I would just have another crosslay pulled and use the foam with it. No big deal. However if I've got a bit of time before extension to an exposure becomes a real issue, and the extra manpower to do it, I will make a connection at a non-foam discharge, conserving the foam for actual fire suppression activities.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  18. #38
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    No particular reason comes to mind for me, no. Other than conserving the foam. If exposure control has to happen at a quick rate due to impending fire spread to exposures, than I would just have another crosslay pulled and use the foam with it. No big deal. However if I've got a bit of time before extension to an exposure becomes a real issue, and the extra manpower to do it, I will make a connection at a non-foam discharge, conserving the foam for actual fire suppression activities.
    The amount of foam you would use to protect the exposure would be miniscule in this case and to me not warrant the extra work to break and then make a non-foam discharge hook up.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  19. #39
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    I have nothing against foam, but have never used it at a fire. In this picture would foam be needed? Would foam give you an advantage if man power was an issue?

  20. #40
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Throw in the Fit-5 and wish the guy well. Time to get back to the station.

    OK, hit it with 1 3/4 with CAFS. TIC the soffit and interior of the house. Fill out a report.

    Ask the guy if he wants to learn to do it right and become a volunteer.

    A deck gun? WHY? 2 1/2? WHY?

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