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Thread: Fire Attack photo

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Was referring to the tanker on my combo department where we have better response times as well as the training, experience, manpower and resources to fight fire aggressively most of the time.

    We don't carry SCBA on the tanker at my VFD.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We actually use SCBA ........... off the engines ................very often.

    It's no surprise that you continue to be a ..... Dumb@@@.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We actually use SCBA ........... off the engines ................very often.

    It's no surprise that you continue to be a ..... Dumb@@@.
    WOW! La f,or the guy that claims the high road, it seems here you slipped off into the ditch and maybe even rolled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    WOW! La f,or the guy that claims the high road, it seems here you slipped off into the ditch and maybe even rolled.
    Reckon if LA's car caught fire while resting on its roof he'd want an off duty fire fighter to help him; should one drive by?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    WOW! La f,or the guy that claims the high road, it seems here you slipped off into the ditch and maybe even rolled.
    He's getting flustered. He's got so many people calling him on so much of his BS, he's changed his story so many times, and spun it so many different ways, that he can't keep his story straight.

    Hell, I don't even think he reads what he says anymore....
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Well, on my #1 POC FD that would be a 2 inch pre-connect down the driveway to kill that fire and another inside the house to check for extension. On my #2 POC FD and my Career FD this would be a 1 3/4 down the driveway and another inside the house to check for extension.

    Honestly, it looks spectacular from the end of the driveway but I don't think that is really much of a fire at this point.

    I give the kid on the garden hose credit for trying to save the car. At least he is shielded by the house.
    I totally agree 100%. That is exactly how I would do it.

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    To be quite honest, we don't train with the 2 1/2 much, use it at fires even less. It would be much faster for the guys to get that 1 3/4 into play. Your right that the its alot of water, but its cheap. Why not bring every ounce to bear that we can. Our cards are set up in very general terms, for example, Fire in town, fire out of town but north of the highway, etc. and they are stacked heavy from the get go. Very seldom have to go to anything past the box, Don't know if in recent memory we have gone past the second alarm, which gets us all of whats above plus an additional two engines, two tenders, another truck and squad, another ambulance, 3 chiefs and a rehab unit, all M/A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Btownguy View Post
    To be quite honest, we don't train with the 2 1/2 much, use it at fires even less. It would be much faster for the guys to get that 1 3/4 into play. Your right that the its alot of water, but its cheap. Why not bring every ounce to bear that we can. Our cards are set up in very general terms, for example, Fire in town, fire out of town but north of the highway, etc. and they are stacked heavy from the get go. Very seldom have to go to anything past the box, Don't know if in recent memory we have gone past the second alarm, which gets us all of whats above plus an additional two engines, two tenders, another truck and squad, another ambulance, 3 chiefs and a rehab unit, all M/A.
    You do understand that a 2 1/2" will knock down the fire much quicker than an 1 3/4" in a situation like that garage?

    Why not use the tool that will do that?

    Just something to think about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You do understand that a 2 1/2" will knock down the fire much quicker than an 1 3/4" in a situation like that garage?

    Why not use the tool that will do that?

    Just something to think about.
    Not necessarily. What flow are you getting out of your 2 1/2? 200? 250? Both of those flows are entirely possible with 1 3/4 inch hose. Hell, we flow 300 with our 2 inch.

    In my radical opinion, in most cases, anything 2 1/2 will do for a handline 2 inch will do with a lighter, easier to move, handline. We flow 300 trough 300 foot preconnects and though 400 feet of 3 inch hose to a wye with 100 feet of 2 inch attached. PLUS, in a pinch 2 guys can move a two inch line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not necessarily. What flow are you getting out of your 2 1/2? 200? 250? Both of those flows are entirely possible with 1 3/4 inch hose. Hell, we flow 300 with our 2 inch.

    In my radical opinion, in most cases, anything 2 1/2 will do for a handline 2 inch will do with a lighter, easier to move, handline. We flow 300 trough 300 foot preconnects and though 400 feet of 3 inch hose to a wye with 100 feet of 2 inch attached. PLUS, in a pinch 2 guys can move a two inch line.
    Further, with a crew of 5 you can pull TWO 1 3/4 or 2 inch lines instead of ONE 2 1/2. One for the garage fire and the other to go insde to check for extension.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not necessarily. What flow are you getting out of your 2 1/2? 200? 250? Both of those flows are entirely possible with 1 3/4 inch hose. Hell, we flow 300 with our 2 inch.

    In my radical opinion, in most cases, anything 2 1/2 will do for a handline 2 inch will do with a lighter, easier to move, handline. We flow 300 trough 300 foot preconnects and though 400 feet of 3 inch hose to a wye with 100 feet of 2 inch attached. PLUS, in a pinch 2 guys can move a two inch line.
    No disagreement that the flows of a 2"with a smooth bore could match the flows of a 2 1/2" with a combination nozzle

    I have never heard of getting 300 gpm out of a 2 " though. I assume a smooth bore? What size tip?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No disagreement that the flows of a 2"with a smooth bore could match the flows of a 2 1/2" with a combination nozzle

    I have never heard of getting 300 gpm out of a 2 " though. I assume a smooth bore? What size tip?
    1 1/4 inch slug tip flowed at roughly 42 psi at the nozzle.
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    First Engine will be stretching. Truck is going to work. Couple of Pump Cans off the rig until the engine gets a line in place.

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    OK, lets throw a kink into it...based on a run I just listened to while at work.

    Exact same scene when you roll up...you're the officer on the first in rig...you start to make your size up and make a lap...and hear what sounds like jiffy pop on steroids. About the time you hear the popping, the home owner who's hunkered down behind the A/D corner of the house confiirms your thoughts by yelling ' I've got a bunch of ammunition in there!!!

    Now how' would you handle it?

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    In theory the ammo will pop however the bullet with not project with lethal force due to the gun powder not going off inside of a contained space (the chamber). The pressure from the gun powder exploding inside of the barrel is what causes the projectile to be sent down range. However it is possible that a round could be in a loaded gun and the round cook off then it would project.

    Now that is theory so take it for what it is worth.
    Last edited by RFD21C; 06-02-2013 at 09:13 PM. Reason: typo

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    Ammo doesn't bother me, large amounts of black powder , may go to a larger line initially.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    In theory the ammo will pop however the bullet with not project with lethal force due to the gun powder not going off inside of a contained space (the chamber). The pressure from the gun powder exploding inside of the barrel is what causes the projectile to be sent down range. However it is possible that a round could be in a loaded gun and the round cook off then it would project.

    Now that is theory so take it for what it is worth.
    That was my thought, RE: the actual potential hazard from the ammo as well. The run I was listening to was just a bit South of you BTW, in the County, off of Centrailia Road...and they pretty much did exactly yhat. Battalion Chief got there with a unattached garage fully involved and called for a gatedown line off of the first in engine because the garage was well off the road in the rear of the property...upon finding out about the ammo he cancelled the order for the gatedown and ammended it to a Blitzfire monitor.

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    Found the link that I was looking for

    Skip to 12:20 in the video to see the burn demos

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

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    Un chambered ammo will "toss " the brass a little ways, black powder in a can -will sometimes explode, a bullet in the chamber will shoot. I know this from experience. A vehicle fire with a 30/06 behind the seat.
    in my area most rifles are in a safe under the bed and I cant remember hearing one fire off from a gun. Un chambered ammo cooking off sounds different than a shot.
    ?

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    It wouldn't change my tactics at all other than perhaps the initial hit coming from a bit farther back. Loose ammunition not chambered in a gun is generally not a hazard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It wouldn't change my tactics at all other than perhaps the initial hit coming from a bit farther back. Loose ammunition not chambered in a gun is generally not a hazard.
    Agreed. Most of the containers used to handle propellant are designed to rupture at low pressures. The fire intensity would go up but not likely to explode. A chambered round would be dangerous though. We were at a house fire that had quite a few explosions, we would duck down every time until we figured out it was huge cans of pork and beans cooking off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    It wouldn't change my tactics at all other than perhaps the initial hit coming from a bit farther back. Loose ammunition not chambered in a gun is generally not a hazard.
    It's generally not a hazard, and the guys at mythbusters showd that it is very hard to get enough velocity to do any damage, but at the same time, we had a shed fire a few years ago where one of the guys did get hit by an round that cooked off. It went through the sleeve of his bunker gear and left a small scratch on his bicep. Strange things can happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Agreed. Most of the containers used to handle propellant are designed to rupture at low pressures. The fire intensity would go up but not likely to explode. A chambered round would be dangerous though. We were at a house fire that had quite a few explosions, we would duck down every time until we figured out it was huge cans of pork and beans cooking off.
    As you said, the biggest concern would be if there are firearms stored with a round in the chamber. I would not expect this in a detached garage as much as I would in a bedroom safe..
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    Wait, wait, What if I'm coming back from an EMS run? Do I take off my orange medical gloves before I stretch the line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    It's generally not a hazard, and the guys at mythbusters showd that it is very hard to get enough velocity to do any damage, but at the same time, we had a shed fire a few years ago where one of the guys did get hit by an round that cooked off. It went through the sleeve of his bunker gear and left a small scratch on his bicep. Strange things can happen.
    Are you sure it was loose ammo and not something chambered in a gun? Not trying to tell you it didn't and can't happen, just curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Are you sure it was loose ammo and not something chambered in a gun? Not trying to tell you it didn't and can't happen, just curious.
    It seemed odd to me at the time as well, but it was a shed fire (most people wouldn't keep firearms in an unsecured shed), and no signs of a gun during overhaul.

    I can't say exactly how it happened, but I saw the results first hand. Might have been just the right (or wrong) circumstances that may or may not ever happen again. I've had other fires that ammunition was cooking off without any injuries or anybody even saying they felt something hit them. In most circumstances, unless the person had a large arsenal, It's not something I worry a lot about.

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