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  1. #421
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    I think the concept that escapes so many of the "new wave" fire service types is we do what Lt Chenzo and his crew did as a normal event at most fires. The first rig shows up and GOES TO WORK knowing that more help is on the way. We don't stand at the rig watching the building burn, or gramma hanging out of the window, waiting until everyone shows up, huddle and discuss what we will do, and then head off to do it. WE DO IT NOW and when other help arrives they blend in and do what they are supposed to do. We don't all arrive at once, it just isn't possible either with volunteers, or with career FDs coming from different stations located around the city.

    We are not suicidal maniacs running in with no plan, we do size-ups, we make a tactical decision on what we can, and what we can't do, prior to arrival of more help, and then we simply DO IT. I am amazed at what a difficult concept that is for some to grasp.

    While this gets a little sappy at the end I think this describes LA to a T:

    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.”

    Leo F. Buscaglia
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


  2. #422
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I think the concept that escapes so many of the "new wave" fire service types is we do what Lt Chenzo and his crew did as a normal event at most fires. The first rig shows up and GOES TO WORK knowing that more help is on the way. We don't stand at the rig watching the building burn, or gramma hanging out of the window, waiting until everyone shows up, huddle and discuss what we will do, and then head off to do it. WE DO IT NOW and when other help arrives they blend in and do what they are supposed to do. We don't all arrive at once, it just isn't possible either with volunteers, or with career FDs coming from different stations located around the city.

    We are not suicidal maniacs running in with no plan, we do size-ups, we make a tactical decision on what we can, and what we can't do, prior to arrival of more help, and then we simply DO IT. I am amazed at what a difficult concept that is for some to grasp.

    While this gets a little sappy at the end I think this describes LA to a T:
    We need to stop and take a vote. Lets see, who is in charge, VOTE! Who is on the knob.. VOTE.... Who is Chief today... VOTE
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.

  3. #423
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The small fire on the stove was hit from the far end of the kitchen with an extinguisher while a line was being pulled.

    The line was never used in kitchen beyiond a few gallons to knock down a small bit of fire on the wall. it was then pulled to hit asmall amount of fire in the overhead vent area.

    Justification of how your actions were somehow safer than mine. More hypocritical bullscat from you

    That is one of my pet peeves, and one of the things that we should not do. It happens and my combo department, and is somewhat common in theis area and is DEAD wrong. It is an example of the fire service trying to shave thaose 40 or 60 seconds off the response and is a prime example of us putting the response ahead of the crew.

    Safety is everyone's responsibility, is it not? More hypocritical bullscat from you.
    This is a legitimate question directed to you LA, and I expect a straight answer.

    Why are you in the fire service?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  4. #424
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvfd301 View Post
    we need to stop and take a vote. Lets see, who is in charge, vote! Who is on the knob.. Vote.... Who is chief today... Vote
    ooh!! Ooh!! Pick me!! I had my hand up first!! I want to be on the knob!!
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  5. #425
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    ooh!! Ooh!! Pick me!! I had my hand up first!! I want to be on the knob!!
    Well that finally explains how you made Lieutenant...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  6. #426
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Well that finally explains how you made Lieutenant...
    Well, ya know. You gotta do what you gotta do.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  7. #427
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Well that finally explains how you made Lieutenant...
    No joke. The vollies in my old department picked their company officers via a peer vote by the vollies at that station.

    They screamed bloody murder whenever someone tried to enforce some type of standard for them.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #428
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    scfire86...

    I was busting Chenzo's balls after all he is MY demon spawn. And for where he is at in his fire service career he is a pretty good officer. He has much to learn, but fortunately he knows that. Once in a while he even listens to his old man, heck sometimes he even asks me for advice!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    We need to stop and take a vote. Lets see, who is in charge, VOTE! Who is on the knob.. VOTE.... Who is Chief today... VOTE
    Point of order!

    You have to wait at least 30 days after nominations before you can vote on these matters.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    This is a legitimate question directed to you LA, and I expect a straight answer.

    Why are you in the fire service?
    Likely for the same reason you are.

    That being said, helping people at thier time of need does not mean that I accept injury or death to us.

    We did not cause the problem. And yes, we are there to do what we can to mitigate the problem, but that does not include putting our members at unreasonable risk, especially in the case where victims are likely not viable or we are not reasonably able to solve the problem, to solve a problem that we did not create.

    I fully expect that each man on my department will make a committment to training and make a committment to respond and perform to the best of thier ability at an incident while not forgetting that thier primary responsibility is still to leave the incident able to fufill all of thier responsbilties to thier famalies, which includes being able to go to thier fulltime job the next day.

    And as an officer, it is my responsbility to see that it happens, even if they feel that they can push a little harder or go a little bit deeper. It's my responsbility to be the adult in the room and say no when I feel we have done everything that we can do without venturing into an area of unreasonable risk.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-03-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #431
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Likely for the same reason you are.

    That being said, helping people at thier time of need does not mean that I accept injury or death to us.

    We did not cause the problem. And yes, we are there to do what we can to mitigate the problem, but that does not include putting our members at unreasonable risk, especially in the case where victims are likely not viable or we are not reasonably able to solve the problem, to solve a problem that we did not create.

    I fully expect that each man on my department will make a committment to training and make a committment to respond and perform to the best of thier ability at an incident while not forgetting that thier primary responsibility is still to leave the incident able to fufill all of thier responsbilties to thier famalies, which includes being able to go to thier fulltime job the next day.

    And as an officer, it is my responsbility to see that it happens, even if they feel that they can push a little harder or go a little bit deeper. It's my responsbility to be the adult in the room and say no when I feel we have done everything that we can do without venturing into an area of unreasonable risk.
    Your comments over the years have shown you are looking for every possible excuse to avoid doing your job as a firefighter.

    While you may think of yourself in those terms, make no mistake, you are not.

    I'll give you an analogy. When I took my kids to spacecamp, they got certificates saying they were astronauts. Guess what? They're astronauts like you're a firefighter.

    I hope that helps.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-03-2013 at 03:13 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #432
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Likely for the same reason you are.

    Not a chance. You are in it for the T-shirt, for the recognition of being a Pub-Ed Instructor, for being a Training Coordinator, for wanting to be a messiah of the new wave destruction of the fire service.

    I am clearly and simply in the fire service to do the job of being a firefighter. WHY? Because I like it, I'll admit it, I am a fire service adrenaline junkie. I like the challenge of emergency scenes. I like the challenge of attempting to solve problems from fires, to MVAs, to smells in the home, to rescues, and even ems. It is the challenge AND the knowledge that when people call 911 they expect myself and my fellow firefighter/EMTs to do our best to fix the problem. They don't expect us to die trying, but they do expect us to TRY to fix the problem. Not wander around waiting for more people to show up, not say well you see ma'am your house is crappily built so we aren't going in there, not saying we don't have enough interior qualified guys to go save gramma, they don't want excuses, they want action. YES, YES, there will be times when there is nothing we can do, but the truth is that is far less than when we can have a positive effect on the outcome. Further it is a family tradition, my DAD, Brother, Sister, were firefighters and my Son is now. You see I don't just talk the talk of serving the citizens, I actually do it.


    No LA, the fact is whatever reason you decided to pollute the fire service with your nonsense, the likelihood of it being the same reason as mine, or Chenzo's, or any number of other people here, is simply too small to be measured.

    That being said, helping people at thier time of need does not mean that I accept injury or death to us.

    It goes further with you and your callous I lose no sleep over writing off victims mantra is sick, pathetic and a poison to the fire service.

    We did not cause the problem. And yes, we are there to do what we can to mitigate the problem, but that does not include putting our members at unreasonable risk, especially in the case where victims are likely not viable or we are not reasonably able to solve the problem, to solve a problem that we did not create.

    The definition of unreasonable risk is your downfall. Well, unless we are talking about your guys running into burning buildings with a fire extinguisher and no SCBA. Is that reasonable? It would seem not by your standards, yet you justified it.

    I fully expect that each man on my department will make a committment to training and make a committment to respond and perform to the best of thier ability at an incident while not forgetting that thier primary responsibility is still to leave the incident able to fufill all of thier responsbilties to thier famalies, which includes being able to go to thier fulltime job the next day.

    Blah, blah, blah...who do you think here isn't trying to do the job in a manner that lets them go home to their family? Your insistence that only YOUR way of thinking is right is nonsense.

    And as an officer, it is my responsbility to see that it happens, even if they feel that they can push a little harder or go a little bit deeper. It's my responsbility to be the adult in the room and say no when I feel we have done everything that we can do without venturing into an area of unreasonable risk.

    Wait a minute, now you are an officer and have power? You have said over and over you had no influence and couldn't eventell people to put on their seatbelts. Now you are an officer Dude you have no idea who you are or what your duties are. You flop from one FD to the other and tell whatever story suits you at that moment.

    As for you being the adult in the room. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Being too afraid to act doesn't make you adult, all it means is you are over your head and should let someone else lead that will do the job when appropriate.
    More confused blather from you yet AGAIN.
    scfire86, Chenzo and conrad427 like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  13. #433
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    I just watched Ray McCormack's speech at from the 2011 FDIC conference. It is in two parts on YouTube. Being the new guy I had not seen it before but I am sure a lot of you have. I got chills up my spine and was filled with such a sense of pride watching it I cant describe it. Ray McCormack put into words exactly why I joined the fire service better than I ever have or ever could. LA, if you have any doubt why a lot of us feel the way we do, I would suggest you watch the speech, it takes a little over twenty minutes. If after that, and you still don't understand, there is nothing more I can offer on the subject.
    FyredUp likes this.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I just watched Ray McCormack's speech at from the 2011 FDIC conference. It is in two parts on YouTube. Being the new guy I had not seen it before but I am sure a lot of you have. I got chills up my spine and was filled with such a sense of pride watching it I cant describe it. Ray McCormack put into words exactly why I joined the fire service better than I ever have or ever could. LA, if you have any doubt why a lot of us feel the way we do, I would suggest you watch the speech, it takes a little over twenty minutes. If after that, and you still don't understand, there is nothing more I can offer on the subject.
    I have watched it.

    And I have little use for Lt. McCormack.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #435
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have watched it.

    And I have little use for Lt. McCormack.
    And I've read your posts.

    Myself and the other 99.99% of the fire service outside of your little parish have absolutely no use for you and your mindset.

    So what's your point?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have watched it.

    And I have little use for Lt. McCormack.
    I'm sure he'd feel the same way about you.

  17. #437
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have watched it.

    And I have little use for Lt. McCormack.
    The difference being you've heard of Ray McCormack and if he was asked about you he would say "Bobby who?"
    DeputyChiefGonzo and Chenzo like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  18. #438
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have watched it.

    And I have little use for Lt. McCormack.

    Picture if you will...

    You have been involved in a motor vehicle collision. Your car is severely damaged, you are trapped and the car is on fire.

    Two people witness this incident: Ray McCormack of the FDNY and the "Pubed" officer of the Bossier Parish Fire Protection District 1, LAFE.

    Who has the balls to save you or give his all to try to?
    conrad427 likes this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #439
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    ....Myself and the other 99.99% of the fire service outside of your little parish have absolutely no use for you and your mindset...
    I totally agree with you.....but here we are with another 20+ page thread discussing little more than LaFire.....again.


    For a guy who's opinion most of us despise and disagree with....he is guaranteed multiple pages of posts every time.
    fotowun likes this.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  20. #440
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I totally agree with you.....but here we are with another 20+ page thread discussing little more than LaFire.....again.


    For a guy who's opinion most of us despise and disagree with....he is guaranteed multiple pages of posts every time.
    I think Fyred has repeatedly given the best reasoning for this. I can't remember what he said exactly to the word, but it's so that LA's poisonous attitude towards the fire service doesn't get spread to new up and coming members who lurk/read/post on here.

    Believe me, I was excited the first 5 pages where there was a legitimate fire attack tactics thread.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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