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  1. #141
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    That's fine. But how many more years or decades of training, including live fire, is it going to take before you let the members of YOUR department advance a line up the driveway and check for extension in the house? You can live burn train for ever and a day but eventually the guys who signed up to do the job will have to be allowed to go ahead and do the job.
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  2. #142
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    This has nothing to do with our guys not liking working a fire. They do. It has everything to do with enough members showing up to fight the fire safely and have all of them go to work the next day.
    Oh my gosh. Oh my GOSH. Every fire is dangerous, and I know garages can be full of surprising contents. But given the advanced stage of this fire, I suspect most of that nasty shiznit has already burned up. Even if it hasn't, we have these handy portable supplies of air on our backs and these warm, cozy outfits to wear. And quite honestly, with a real live firehose, even the chicken-est rookie firefighter could do an awful lot of good from Garden Hose Boy's location.

    There are two things about your purported circumstances that puzzle me:

    1. If you are such a fabulous instructor, why aren't those five lonely firefighters competent to handle a simple structure fire?

    2. If you have been that short-handed for so long that you know, blow by blow, who is where and why they can't respond, why haven't you undertaken an initiative to RECRUIT SOME FIREFIGHTERS?

    IF YOU ARE SCARED OF ROUTINE LITTLE GARAGE FIRES, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG BUSINESS.
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  3. #143
    MembersZone Subscriber tree68's Avatar
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    If I pulled up at this fire in the engine alone (there are those days), I'd probably pull a crosslay, charge the line, and get some water on the fire. There'd be help coming and I'm not going to stand there and watch it burn if I've got the ability to do something.
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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    That's fine. But how many more years or decades of training, including live fire, is it going to take before you let the members of YOUR department advance a line up the driveway and check for extension in the house? You can live burn train for ever and a day but eventually the guys who signed up to do the job will have to be allowed to go ahead and do the job.
    Never said that we would do nothing if we were shorthanded.

    I did state that given the experience level of the crew, especially if none of the officers are able to respond, I would not neccesarily expect that we would not lose the home. Yes, they are far better in terms of performing assigned tasks on the fireground than they were a few years ago, but they have yet to operate at a fire without some type of command-level leadership, so that is a very unknown area.

    And yes, if I was the only officer on-scene I would be far more careful with my actions than if we had other officers on-scene to supervise each crew.

    And again, I think, that given the building construction in this area, we would have some fairly significant extenstion into the attic space.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-22-2013 at 09:30 AM.
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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Oh my gosh. Oh my GOSH. Every fire is dangerous, and I know garages can be full of surprising contents. But given the advanced stage of this fire, I suspect most of that nasty shiznit has already burned up. Even if it hasn't, we have these handy portable supplies of air on our backs and these warm, cozy outfits to wear. And quite honestly, with a real live firehose, even the chicken-est rookie firefighter could do an awful lot of good from Garden Hose Boy's location.

    There are two things about your purported circumstances that puzzle me:

    1. If you are such a fabulous instructor, why aren't those five lonely firefighters competent to handle a simple structure fire?

    Fact is this is likely not a "simple" structure fire. Sorry but we have a structural exposure, which IMO prpbably already has a significant extention issue, a vehicle infront of the gargage and unknown exposures to he rear. If you want to call that simple, have at it, but I would not define it as such, especially given the overall experience level of my VFD.

    As far a me being a "fabulous instructor" ...... well those are your words, not mine.


    2. If you have been that short-handed for so long that you know, blow by blow, who is where and why they can't respond, why haven't you undertaken an initiative to RECRUIT SOME FIREFIGHTERS?

    We have tried and have had minimal results. We have used posters and we recently sent a mailer to every home in the district. There simply doesn't seem to be much intrest in the district in being a volunteer firefighter. The simple fact is just about every VFD in the parish is having the same isues, except for the neighboring city combo department that pays it's call members quite well.

    That is why we recently added the neighboring city department to our first alarm run card for every structural incident (fires, alarms, smoke reports, etc.). My combo department also has no issues responding as requested on the initial call.


    IF YOU ARE SCARED OF ROUTINE LITTLE GARAGE FIRES, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG BUSINESS.
    Scard? No.

    Understanding thier potential? Yes. Understanding exactly where my crew is in thier abilities? Yes.

    Given a couple experienced members or officers, this fire would likely not be that significant a challenege, especially when the neighboring city department arrives. Without that initial leadership from either officers or experienced members in the first 5 minutes, yes, in this scenario, losing this house is a possibility. That's just the way that it is.
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  6. #146
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Fact is this is likely not a "simple" structure fire.

    If this isn't a simple structure fire, I don't know what is.

    As far a me being a "fabulous instructor" ...... well those are your words, not mine.

    You frequently make a point of bragging about where you've been teaching and what you've been teaching. Teach your volunteers how to handle a routine structure fire.

    We have tried and have had minimal results. We have used posters and we recently sent a mailer to every home in the district. There simply doesn't seem to be much intrest in the district in being a volunteer firefighter. The simple fact is just about every VFD in the parish is having the same isues, except for the neighboring city combo department that pays it's call members quite well.

    Passive recruiting gets you nowhere. Volunteers generally start as one of three things: Those wanting to fill a community need, those who never outgrew the childhood dream, and those who are badgered into it by friends or relatives. We've never recruited a soul with posters or mailers. Personal contact every time.

    Scard? No.

    Understanding thier potential? Yes. Understanding exactly where my crew is in thier abilities? Yes.

    Given a couple experienced members or officers, this fire would likely not be that significant a challenege, especially when the neighboring city department arrives. Without that initial leadership from either officers or experienced members in the first 5 minutes, yes, in this scenario, losing this house is a possibility. That's just the way that it is.

    I could hand my neighbor a fire hose and say, "Put that out!" and he'd at least be able to keep it at bay until real firefighters arrive.
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  7. #147
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    This has nothing to do with our guys not liking working a fire. They do. It has everything to do with enough members showing up to fight the fire safely and have all of them go to work the next day.
    Then shut the doors and just give your territory to the full timers in the city because frankly at this point it sounds like they fight your volly FDs fires anyways.
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  8. #148
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I thought I was pretty clear that this would not be a major event for my combo department, and under the right circumstances with a good mix of our experienced and inexperienced members, this would likely be a manageable fire though the house would likely suffer some extension and damage for my volunteer department.

    The worst-case I described above would be daytime, weekday fire with all of the officers at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You really believe that this fire would only take 5 members, including an IC and pump operator to control?

    I have no idea what the experience and training level of your members are, but no, there is no way that a mixed group of 5 of our people, on my VFD, could manage this fire and i wouldn't be stupid enough to try if that was all that I had.

    I have no issues in saying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You forgot solar system, galaxy and cosmos,
    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So you would just ignore the likely extension into the home?

    Your 3 guys could handle that?

    And by the way who's commanding the incident and who's pumping the truck? If you have a tank of less than 1000g, who made your hydrant? Who's your relief or are they all good operating in August in 103 degrees and 60% humidity without relief?

    Just curious.
    It would take less time to put out this fire than the time you spent writing your gasbag, worthless, excuse making replies.

    When I scan your posts (since I realize there is nothing of value), I'm reminded of the adage that was once said about President Carter. "When you asked him the time, he told you how to build a watch."

    But an even more appropriate description of your writing was stated by Winston Churchill when he parodied:

    "My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating."
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  9. #149
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    1. I don't define garage fires as simple. Nothing simple about a building that truly contains, or has the potential to contain everything up and including pool chemicals.

    More excuses for inaction. The truth is the faster you extinguish the garage fire the less potential it has for further complications with anything else in the garage area. The longer it burns the more likely negative effects will begin to take place. Using your 2 1/2 "Transitional" attack you could knock down the majority of this fire from 30 or 40 feet away.

    2. Would be a fairly straight forwad fire without what I think is already some extension into the attic beyond just the soffit.

    Knock that fire down on the way to the garage. You are the first fire officer who I have ever heard say that pulling ceiling with a pike pole is beyond the scope of his firefighter's ability. Hell man, I could take a care who never held a pike pole before and in about a minute show them how to pull ceiling. You do realize how silly this makes you sound right? 2 guys in the house, 1 pulling ceiling, one with a hoseline. Simple, bread and butter firefighting.

    3. The 2 1/2" which would be pulled for this fire as the initial line per policy would knock down most of the fire in the garage. That's not the issue with this fire, It's the house and the other stuff that we don't see in the picture such as possible exposures to the right and the rear. I'm not going to look at this picture and assume a "simple" garage fire. You give me a bigger picture or maybe a conversation with the owner about any surprises and maybe I would.

    More excuses for inaction and writing off a completely savable house. Pathetic.

    4. Last I knew I wasn't a Messiah.

    Oh you are a Messiah alright, unfortunately you are a false one attempting to lead the masses into darkness.
    You have completely embarassed yourself on this topic. EVERYONE now knows exactly how little fire you will surrender a home on. Nice work...
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

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  10. #150
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You have completely embarassed yourself on this topic. EVERYONE now knows exactly how little fire you will surrender a home on. Nice work...
    Only proving that it's hard work looking for ways to avoid doing one's job.
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  11. #151
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    If this isn't a simple structure fire, I don't know what is.

    We disagree on that. Enough said.


    You frequently make a point of bragging about where you've been teaching and what you've been teaching. Teach your volunteers how to handle a routine structure fire.

    We have concentrated on teaching skills, not leadership. Have we taught them about performing a size-up and requesting mutual aid? Yes. Have we discussed what size lines to pull on what types of fires? Yes. In fact that is, in part, why we now use a transistional attack philosphy which dictates that they will pull the 2 1/2" on any structural incident where there is fire visable through 2 or more openings (a residental garage door counts as 3 and a commercial door of 10' or more counts as 4). That makes the process easier for them in terms of tactics.

    Could they pull this off? maybe, but again, I think there is far more extention into the 2nd structure than most of you think. Now it becomes a multiple-building incident, and that is likely beyond our daytime resources.


    Passive recruiting gets you nowhere. Volunteers generally start as one of three things: Those wanting to fill a community need, those who never outgrew the childhood dream, and those who are badgered into it by friends or relatives. We've never recruited a soul with posters or mailers. Personal contact every time.

    Disagree. My previous VFD was very successful using the media, but personal contact can also be very effective. I have recruited a volunteer from my combo department who lives near the line. Another couple of members have brought folks in, but one is now headed to Afghaistan in May and the other looks like it is too much of a committement, which is fine.

    Biggest problem is that the demographics of the community is that it is primarily older, and much of the younger population is far more interested in hunting and fishing as compared to the commitment required or firefighting.

    I could hand my neighbor a fire hose and say, "Put that out!" and he'd at least be able to keep it at bay until real firefighters arrive.[/QUOTE]


    And as I have said, it's not the garage fire that's the issue. If they follow policy, the 2 1/2" will go into service first and knock down the garage, and likely they will sweep thee exterior of the house before hitting the garage.

    The issue is the house, which I feel will have significant fire by the time a line is stretched (assuming that we have more than a 2-3 member response) and able to operate interior.
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  12. #152
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    Just how long does it take you to pull a line?

  13. #153
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As everything is situational, I would not write it off, though depending on how much fire has gotten into the attic the realistic truth is there may not be enough manpower available, without calling in resources beyond my VFD and the AMA department to work it until it has progresses through the structure. That is just a simple travel time issue which I cannot change.

    In my opinion the majority of that extension would be stopped by hitting that soffit area as you moved in on the garage fire. 2 guys inside with a hook and a hoseline will get the rest of it.

    I would expect that the initial 2 1/2" per policy would take care of much of the garage pretty quickly, assuming that it was deployed in at timely manner. However I believe that there is already some significant extension into the house, or at least will be by the time hoses get on the ground and into service.

    Significant? Perhaps, nothing hooks and a hoseline inside won't finish killing in short order.

    The next in department would either be my combo department, with a travel time of 10-15 minutes, or the department to the north. If it was in the northern part of the district, that department could provide very, very little in the way of interior-qualified manpower. In that case, my combo department would be called with an ETA of 15-20ish minutes.

    WHY? Why on God's Green Earth would you call another FD that won't go inside to fight fire when that is the problem your very own volly FD has. Geezus people would be better off buying more smoke detectors and installing sprinklers than counting on your merry bands of exterior firefighters.

    And yes, I would have some serious issues regarding being offensive with 4 green members and 1 experienced members. That would be a significant safety issue and would significantly affect how i approached this fire.

    How long do they remain green? FOREVER if you never let them TRY to actually fight a fire. This whole operation is Bread and Butter if they get to work instead of huddling, waste time assigning command vests, and wringing their hands because the Chiefs aren't there.
    More excuses and nonsense.
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  14. #154
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    More excuses for inaction. The truth is the faster you extinguish the garage fire the less potential it has for further complications with anything else in the garage area. The longer it burns the more likely negative effects will begin to take place. Using your 2 1/2 "Transitional" attack you could knock down the majority of this fire from 30 or 40 feet away.

    And where did i say that we would not attempt to extinguish the fire, except in the the case of the homeowner requesting that we not (which again, they have that right in LA)?

    I have stated clearly many times that the garage is not really the issue as we would, per policy, stretch the 2 1/2", which we have trauiined our members to operate solo, and knock down the fire in the garage.
    The issue though is not the garage, but the house, and there is a very good possibility that we simply would not have enough experienced personnel to operate interior if there is significant fire until the arrival of the on-duty crew from the neighboring city.

    That's not giving up. That is simply the reality of our daytime response under sopme specific circumstances.



    Knock that fire down on the way to the garage. You are the first fire officer who I have ever heard say that pulling ceiling with a pike pole is beyond the scope of his firefighter's ability. Hell man, I could take a care who never held a pike pole before and in about a minute show them how to pull ceiling. You do realize how silly this makes you sound right? 2 guys in the house, 1 pulling ceiling, one with a hoseline. Simple, bread and butter firefighting.

    And maybe it would be. But again, there may be alimited response, and they may be overwhelmed and that may not be accomplished.

    My point is that I see the possibility that we would lose the house under some circumstances. And honestly, it does not bother me that it could happen. We have the resources that we have, and I know that they will give it thier best shot, but sometimes houses burn down. And sometimes the fire department just can't keep that from happening.


    3. The 2 1/2" which would be pulled for this fire as the initial line per policy would knock down most of the fire in the garage. That's not the issue with this fire, It's the house and the other stuff that we don't see in the picture such as possible exposures to the right and the rear. I'm not going to look at this picture and assume a "simple" garage fire. You give me a bigger picture or maybe a conversation with the owner about any surprises and maybe I would.

    More excuses for inaction and writing off a completely savable house. Pathetic.

    And where are the excuses? I have no idea what is happening that we don't see that I may have to utilize my manpower on. I'm not writing anything off but simply being realistic about the limited resources in terms of numbers, experience and training that we may respond with, and the the travel time of both automatic and requested mutual aid.

    The fact is that I do acknowledge that under some circumstances, this situation may be a loser for my VFD. It's called being realistic about your operations.




    4. Last I knew I wasn't a Messiah.

    Oh you are a Messiah alright, unfortunately you are a false one attempting to lead the masses into darkness.

    And where have I said that I am leading anyone? The training officer and myself work together toplan and deliver training. We have ramped it up and made it more physical, but in doing that we have found issues that we are still addressing. This budget year we finally were given a budget due to an increase in overall revenue where we have finally been able to send members to in-state and out-of-sstate classes with realistic burn facilities.

    I never said I have all the answers, but there is still a culture from previous Chiefs which is fighting to some degree, the increasing physicality of training and increasing training requirements, especially in the older members. Changing that takes time, and it's still a process.


    You have completely embarassed yourself on this topic. EVERYONE now knows exactly how little fire you will surrender a home on. Nice work...

    And where did I say anything about surrendering?

    I did state that resources, especially manpower during the daytime hours, is a significant challenge, and that there will be times that my VFD, even with AMA, will be limited in what we can accomplish. Again, if this was a simple garage fire, without exposure involvement, it would likely not be a major issue. Throw in the unknown exposure involvement, plus what we can't see from this picture, and yes, this situation would very likely be beyond the control of the 2-3 members we may get on some daytime responses.

    That's not surrendering. That is simply understanding what your department may or may not be able to do.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-22-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That's not surrendering. That is simply understanding what your department may or may not be able to do.[/COLOR]
    Which you have clearly explained as not much. Do the folks in your town know they really have no fire protection?

    Don't you feel a professional responsibility to tell them? Or do they already know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Which you have clearly explained as not much. Do the folks in your town know they really have no fire protection?

    Don't you feel a professional responsibility to tell them? Or do they already know.
    They know that it can take 20 or 25 minutes for the private EMS agencies or the Sheriff's department to arrive in the more rural parts of the district. And yes they know that the fire department is volunteer with limited resources, and that it can take awhile for us to arrive to the more rural parts of the district.

    Folks in rural communities understand that there are drawbacks to living in areas with pretty low tax rates that are sparesly populated, which describes the majority of our district.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-22-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    They know that it can take 20 or 25 minutes for the private EMS agencies or the Sheriff's department to arrive in the more rural parts of the district. And yes they know that the fire department is volunteer with limited resources, and that it can take awhile for us to arrive to the more rural parts of the district.

    Folks in rural communities understand that there are drawbacks to living in areas with pretty low tax rates that are sparesly populated, which describes the majority of our district.
    Good to know. I won't worry that they actually believe you're coming to their rescue when that is not the case. At least they realize that if they are trapped in a burning structure and you're coming, that they are pretty much toast (no pun intended).

    The drawbacks you list are one of the many reasons I'll never live in rural environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Good to know. I won't worry that they actually believe you're coming to their rescue when that is not the case. At least they realize that if they are trapped in a burning structure and you're coming, that they are pretty much toast (no pun intended).

    The drawbacks you list are one of the many reasons I'll never live in rural environment.
    Yes, thery understand that unless they live in the southern end of the district, they are a distance from help- fire, EMS and LE - and pretty much accept that as the price they pay for the low tax rate, having 50 acres of land or being able to shoot thier guns just for the hell of it or deer from thier back porch.

    The simple fact is that for the majority of our district, if they do not escape the fire on thier own, the response times alone will make any kind of fire department rescue virtually impossible. For just about all of north LA, except in the urban and surburban areas, that's the case.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-22-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have concentrated on teaching skills, not leadership.
    Anybody that knows the skills required for this SIMPLE operation doesn't need six weeks in Emmitsburg to carry them out.
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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    More excuses for inaction. The truth is the faster you extinguish the garage fire the less potential it has for further complications with anything else in the garage area. The longer it burns the more likely negative effects will begin to take place. Using your 2 1/2 "Transitional" attack you could knock down the majority of this fire from 30 or 40 feet away.

    And where did i say that we would not attempt to extinguish the fire, except in the the case of the homeowner requesting that we not (which again, they have that right in LA)?

    You have said REPEATEDLY that going inside the house, pulling ceiling and extiguishing any extension would probably be beyond the ability of your on scene firefighters. If you are going in anything you do from the exterior only delays the inevitable. Frankly, again if simple tactics like that are beyond your volly FD, close the doors sell off the equipment and hire the city to do your fire protection because on occasion then a building may get saved.


    I have stated clearly many times that the garage is not really the issue as we would, per policy, stretch the 2 1/2", which we have trauiined our members to operate solo, and knock down the fire in the garage.
    The issue though is not the garage, but the house, and there is a very good possibility that we simply would not have enough experienced personnel to operate interior if there is significant fire until the arrival of the on-duty crew from the neighboring city.

    Okay, if ONE FF is going to handle the 2 1/2 to knock down the garage fire, then what are the others going to do? Stand around in command vests? Why can't the remaining 2 or 3 go check for extension? How will they ever get experience if you never let them do anything.

    That's not giving up. That is simply the reality of our daytime response under sopme specific circumstances.


    In order to give up you have to at least initially attempted something. So true you aren't giving up, but not trying at all is even more pathetic.

    Knock that fire down on the way to the garage. You are the first fire officer who I have ever heard say that pulling ceiling with a pike pole is beyond the scope of his firefighter's ability. Hell man, I could take a care who never held a pike pole before and in about a minute show them how to pull ceiling. You do realize how silly this makes you sound right? 2 guys in the house, 1 pulling ceiling, one with a hoseline. Simple, bread and butter firefighting.

    And maybe it would be. But again, there may be a limited response, and they may be overwhelmed and that may not be accomplished.

    My point is that I see the possibility that we would lose the house under some circumstances. And honestly, it does not bother me that it could happen. We have the resources that we have, and I know that they will give it thier best shot, but sometimes houses burn down. And sometimes the fire department just can't keep that from happening.


    The fact that you can see losing the house is one thing, but your F***ing cavalier "It does not bother me that it could happen" attitude is going to bite you in the *** one day. You are going to say something stupid like that to a homeowner that just lost everything and your next few meals will be chewed through a mouth full of bloody Chiclets.

    3. The 2 1/2" which would be pulled for this fire as the initial line per policy would knock down most of the fire in the garage. That's not the issue with this fire, It's the house and the other stuff that we don't see in the picture such as possible exposures to the right and the rear. I'm not going to look at this picture and assume a "simple" garage fire. You give me a bigger picture or maybe a conversation with the owner about any surprises and maybe I would.

    More excuses for inaction and writing off a completely savable house. Pathetic.


    And where are the excuses? I have no idea what is happening that we don't see that I may have to utilize my manpower on. I'm not writing anything off but simply being realistic about the limited resources in terms of numbers, experience and training that we may respond with, and the the travel time of both automatic and requested mutual aid.

    Where are the excuses? You are saying your guys don't have the training to pull off an exterior attack on a detached garage, and that the house will likely burn down because going interior to pull ceiling and extinguish any extension into the house is beyond their skill set. further you have said basically your FD is a headless chicken without chief officers on location that you admit work out of town during the day and would be unavailable. Yeah, no excuses there in the least.

    The fact is that I do acknowledge that under some circumstances, this situation may be a loser for my VFD. It's called being realistic about your operations.


    Yeah, if realism means surrendering people's lives and property with the false pretense of having a fire department.


    4. Last I knew I wasn't a Messiah.

    Oh you are a Messiah alright, unfortunately you are a false one attempting to lead the masses into darkness.

    And where have I said that I am leading anyone? The training officer and myself work together toplan and deliver training. We have ramped it up and made it more physical, but in doing that we have found issues that we are still addressing. This budget year we finally were given a budget due to an increase in overall revenue where we have finally been able to send members to in-state and out-of-sstate classes with realistic burn facilities.

    You claim to be a leader and an influential force on this volly FD. Unless it suits your purpose to deny it, like now.

    If your combo FD has a burn facility, and you mutual aid with this volly FD, why doesn't your combo FD offer the use of their facility a couple times a year for live fire training? Most inhouse training costs absolutely NOTHING. Heck I have built training props from scrap lumber I had and other members of the FD donated. Get inventive. Yes, it will mean diverting from making excuses to being productive, but it does pay off.

    I never said I have all the answers, but there is still a culture from previous Chiefs which is fighting to some degree, the increasing physicality of training and increasing training requirements, especially in the older members. Changing that takes time, and it's still a process.


    Not if you are serious. You make a new policy and either you get on board or it is time to go. Have you ever thought maybe the young people of the community don't want to belong to some good old boys club and that is why they show no interest in the FD?

    You have completely embarassed yourself on this topic. EVERYONE now knows exactly how little fire you will surrender a home on. Nice work...

    And where did I say anything about surrendering?

    Um, Golly. Maybe when you said the house pictured above will probably be lost too...
    I did state that resources, especially manpower during the daytime hours, is a significant challenge, and that there will be times that my VFD, even with AMA, will be limited in what we can accomplish. Again, if this was a simple garage fire, without exposure involvement, it would likely not be a major issue. Throw in the unknown exposure involvement, plus what we can't see from this picture, and yes, this situation would very likely be beyond the control of the 2-3 members we may get on some daytime responses.

    Again, if all you can muster during a daytime fire is 2 or 3 and they can't do jack squat without the Chiefs being there why even pretend to have a fire department in the first place?

    That's not surrendering. That is simply understanding what your department may or may not be able to do.


    No, you are right. It isn't surrendering, it is much worse. Basically your volly FD is outright LYING to the community about having a fire department, during the day anyways. How can you defend saying you have a FD when you can't muster enough guys to handle even this fire? How can you defend saying you have an FD when they would be paralyzed into inaction without having a chief officer, that is unavailable during the day, there to tell them what to do?
    It gets more pathetic every time you post...
    scfire86 likes this.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

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