Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    2,972

    Default Roof displacement... or just cut the thing off?

    I recently read an article in Some Other Fire Magazine about techniques for displacing a roof that has been smashed down onto a vehicle. It noted that simply cutting posts and removing it isn't always possible because the posts can prove difficult to cut after a crushing impact.

    Not a week later, we responded to a rollover (end over end, per witnesses) MVC of a Chevy Trailblazer. We chose to cut all driver's side posts, make relief cuts front and rear, and flip the roof toward the passenger's side.

    Speaking as the guy who did the cutting, I had no problems with any of the posts, including the A, which was most significantly damaged.

    Has anyone had trouble cutting posts after a roof has been forced downward like this?

    Name:  IMG_0118small.jpg
Views: 437
Size:  45.5 KB
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC



  2. #2
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    No problems here. We usually take the whole roof to just get it out of the way unless its side resting and flapping it gives us a little platform to work off. With our manpower and available equipment its usually a pretty short task.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  3. #3
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    2,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by backsteprescue123 View Post
    No problems here. We usually take the whole roof to just get it out of the way unless its side resting and flapping it gives us a little platform to work off. With our manpower and available equipment its usually a pretty short task.
    I thought about a removal but felt like it was easier to execute the two relief cuts than to cut four more posts, a couple of which would take two bites. The rear relief cut was tougher than expected due to the shape of the tailgate, but generally I think it was still a little faster to flap it. Regular car? Definite total removal.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,890

    Default

    and one trick to keep up your sleeve, is to make a "pie" cut in the roof itself ,if the posts give you fits. Not an ideal situation, but you can remove the roof in a pinch. Just be sure to use some extra 'wrapping" on the cut, because it leaves a nasty edge.
    ?

  5. #5
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    2,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    and one trick to keep up your sleeve, is to make a "pie" cut in the roof itself ,if the posts give you fits. Not an ideal situation, but you can remove the roof in a pinch. Just be sure to use some extra 'wrapping" on the cut, because it leaves a nasty edge.
    That would be a good option if the post is already mashed flat and consequently isn't in the way of patient removal. I like that idea.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  6. #6
    Forum Member yjbrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    and one trick to keep up your sleeve, is to make a "pie" cut in the roof itself ,if the posts give you fits. Not an ideal situation, but you can remove the roof in a pinch. Just be sure to use some extra 'wrapping" on the cut, because it leaves a nasty edge.
    Can you provide more detail? I'm not picturing what you are describing, but it sounds cool.

    Thanks
    Nothing is as unimpressive as someone who is unwilling to learn.

  7. #7
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    2,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yjbrody View Post
    Can you provide more detail? I'm not picturing what you are describing, but it sounds cool.

    Thanks
    I think he means cutting on the red lines like this:

    Name:  sm-aerial-view-plugin-car-exterior.jpg
Views: 314
Size:  48.3 KB
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  8. #8
    Forum Member yjbrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    I think he means cutting on the red lines like this:

    Attachment 22860
    Cool, makes perfect sense now. Avoid the crushed pillars all together. Thanks for the reply.
    Nothing is as unimpressive as someone who is unwilling to learn.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    I think he means cutting on the red lines like this:

    Attachment 22860
    exactley , not the best option, but still an option.
    ?

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    808

    Default

    What is it about a roof pillar that changes the degree of difficulty you might have cutting through it when the vehicle has been in a rollover?

    How is it different if the roof sheetmetal has been crushed down a bit or the pillars bent or crumpled?

    Looking at the TrailBlazer SUV picture in this thread, other than the C- and D-pillar on the driver's side being bent inward slightly, how was the cutting effort any harder or any different than if the vehicle had not rolled? The pillars on the passenger's side appear to be not much different than one would expect at a head-on collision incident.
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  11. #11
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    2,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmoore View Post
    What is it about a roof pillar that changes the degree of difficulty you might have cutting through it when the vehicle has been in a rollover?

    How is it different if the roof sheetmetal has been crushed down a bit or the pillars bent or crumpled?

    Looking at the TrailBlazer SUV picture in this thread, other than the C- and D-pillar on the driver's side being bent inward slightly, how was the cutting effort any harder or any different than if the vehicle had not rolled? The pillars on the passenger's side appear to be not much different than one would expect at a head-on collision incident.
    That's what I had always thought. We've cut up plenty of rollovers before and never had any difficulty. However, the article I read said that the compression and torsion forces--which apparently linger even with no pressure on the roof--could make cutting the posts more difficult.

    I've never noticed any difference. Based on the article, I just wondered if anyone else had experienced anything different.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    808

    Default

    If you want to test whether compression forces on a roof pillar while you are cutting are an issue or not, then in a training situation, roll a vehicle over onto its' roof. Once stabilized, have a crew do a total roof removal evolution.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    The only thing I can see if is the roof/pillars are so distorted from the roll over that their material is entangled with other parts of the car or so compressed into the compartment that access is impossible. I can't picture anything in the roof/pillar construction that would have the 'memory' or elasticity to change their loading characteristics drastically due to the forces induced during the rollover.

    Personally I'd almost always go for a removal unless access to the pillars is restricted or other scene conditions dictate a different strategy.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmoore View Post
    If you want to test whether compression forces on a roof pillar while you are cutting are an issue or not, then in a training situation, roll a vehicle over onto its' roof. Once stabilized, have a crew do a total roof removal evolution.
    Maybe I misread, but the original question had to do with a vehicle that had rolled but had righted itself, correct? Big difference between that and a vehicle that is still resting on its roof.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  15. #15
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    2,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Maybe I misread, but the original question had to do with a vehicle that had rolled but had righted itself, correct? Big difference between that and a vehicle that is still resting on its roof.
    Right. That's what I was asking. I know that a roof-rester will bind into your cutter blades as you work on the pillars, even with adequate cribbing.

    My question was whether a pillar that had been subjected to major compression and/or torsion would exhibit any greater difficulty in cutting.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Dash displacement for vehicle on it's side
    By slhfire in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-19-2007, 11:40 PM
  2. Roof flap vs. Total roof removal
    By eng71ine in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 05-17-2006, 10:01 PM
  3. Dash Displacement for Inverted/Side-resting Vehicles
    By kbud in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 06-16-2002, 04:52 PM
  4. Advice on Roof Removal with Roof Airbags
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-24-2001, 10:51 PM
  5. Dash displacement
    By knightjr121 in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-22-1999, 10:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts