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Thread: So tell me again what the point of this is??

  1. #81
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Both you and Fryed have stated that because nobody was hurt in your situation the attack was safe. The definition of safe seemed to be that nobody was hurt.

    Given the same criteria, I can define the utilization of trained juniors in limited roles in an active non-interior fire attack under the direct supervision of an officer or senior member in both my current combo and previous VFD as safe, as none of them were ever hurt in a firefighting role.

    If you define no injuries as safe, so will I.

    As far as the supervision comment, this would only apply to my combo department as juniors in my current VFD, which is my understaffed department, have very minimal fireground involvement. We currently have no juniors. As far as my combo department, finding enough officers or senior members to supervise them is not an issue.
    There's two problems with your line of argument here.

    1. YOU were the one who deemed MY operation unsafe, because you didn't feel I had enough personnel on scene to justify my actions.

    2. You're still trying to compare CHILDREN to properly trained adults.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse


  2. #82
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Both you and Fryed have stated that because nobody was hurt in your situation the attack was safe. The definition of safe seemed to be that nobody was hurt.

    Given the same criteria, I can define the utilization of trained juniors in limited roles in an active non-interior fire attack under the direct supervision of an officer or senior member in both my current combo and previous VFD as safe, as none of them were ever hurt in a firefighting role.

    If you define no injuries as safe, so will I.

    As far as the supervision comment, this would only apply to my combo department as juniors in my current VFD, which is my understaffed department, have very minimal fireground involvement. We currently have no juniors. As far as my combo department, finding enough officers or senior members to supervise them is not an issue.
    The difference being the people at LT Chenzo's incident were all ADULTS. None of the officers needed to take the Red Cross Babysitting course to be able to manage the firefighters under their command.

    The fact that your uber safety Bull SCHITT doesn't include keeping children off the fireground just makes you look more like a buffoon than anything I could say about your idiocy.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    There's two problems with your line of argument here.

    1. YOU were the one who deemed MY operation unsafe, because you didn't feel I had enough personnel on scene to justify my actions.

    And I feel any department that is operating interior with 4 members on scene, including my own, is not operating safely no matter how well trained their members may be, as there are no resources available on-scene if things go bad.

    The fact is you said it was safe because nobody got hurt.

    Using that same logic, I can also say that we have used juniors in a safe manner because we have never had one of them hurt on the fireground.


    2. You're still trying to compare CHILDREN to properly trained adults.
    No, I'm comparing juniors, who are at least 17, and have experience, who have completed the same basic training checklist, and have demonstrated the same competencies through live fire training, with the exception of interior fire attack, as the adult members, and are limited to backup roles on vehicle and brush fire attacks, and exterior hoselines on structural incidents, under the direct supervision of an officer or senior members.

    So they are properly trained including live fire operations.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  4. #84
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, I'm comparing juniors, who are at least 17......
    No matter how much BS you spew, they're still children.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, I'm comparing juniors, who are at least 17, and have experience, who have completed the same basic training checklist, and have demonstrated the same competencies through live fire training, with the exception of interior fire attack, as the adult members, and are limited to backup roles on vehicle and brush fire attacks, and exterior hoselines on structural incidents, under the direct supervision of an officer or senior members.

    So they are properly trained including live fire operations.
    I know in my state, live fire operations are explicitly prohibited for personnel under the age of 18. Maybe LA has different laws, but then again, you guys don't seem to have any issue with disregarding laws.
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  6. #86
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, I'm comparing juniors(Children, in the eyes of the law), who are at least 17,(Children) and have experience,(Your children have experience, but not your adult members?) who have completed the same basic training checklist, and have demonstrated the same competencies through live fire training, with the exception of interior fire attack, as the adult members(Doesn't matter, still children.), and are limited to backup roles on vehicle and brush fire attacks, and exterior hoselines on structural incidents, under the direct supervision of an officer or senior members.

    So they are properly trained including live fire operations.
    So, you're children are properly trained, but your actual adult members are not? The juniors have experience, but you don't want to make interior attacks with your members because they don't have enough experience?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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