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Thread: Pa. Insurance Companies withdrawing workmans compensation coverage from VFD's

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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Default Pa. Insurance Companies withdrawing workmans compensation coverage from VFD's

    http://www.firehouse.com/news/109300...a-firefighters

    I just sent an email to the board of directors of my VFD asking for a status update of our workmans comp coverage, and informed them that if there was a loss of coverage that I would have to withdraw from active firefighting (and would strongly encourage everyone else to do the same) and other FD-related activities until such time that workmans comp coverage is restored.

    I strongly encourage anyone here from Pennsylvania to do the same.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."


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    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    We have work comp in the city but not the county. The state bill was to make it mandatory for the counties but died in committee. The coverage was for $600 in lost wages to keep the premium down. I would hate to tell them that I would no longer respond unless covered, but I suppose that is the only way. Yeah, I would support you and PA's brothers and sisters.

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    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    No worker's comp for volunteers here...
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    Just an FYI kind of thing related to this..........

    1.) When this legislation was crafted, the insurance industry more or less sign off on it and did not raise the issues that they now have with it.

    2.) They are dropping coverage even though NO claims have actually been paid out under the new cancer presumption law to date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    http://www.firehouse.com/news/109300...a-firefighters

    I just sent an email to the board of directors of my VFD asking for a status update of our workmans comp coverage, and informed them that if there was a loss of coverage that I would have to withdraw from active firefighting (and would strongly encourage everyone else to do the same) and other FD-related activities until such time that workmans comp coverage is restored.

    I strongly encourage anyone here from Pennsylvania to do the same.
    And weren't you one of those that raked me over the coals when I said iIwould not act because a lack of workman's comp covering lost wages?

    What happened to we are fireman ........?
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    Is this just for cancer... Or if I roll my ankle on a ladder? The article didn't read very well.. Probably bc I'm on a mobile device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And weren't you one of those that raked me over the coals when I said iIwould not act because a lack of workman's comp covering lost wages?

    What happened to we are fireman ........?
    Did you read the article... apparently not.
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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Did you read the article... apparently not.
    Labunghole-

    If I roll up on a scene in Pa, and act as a first responder whether I am a member of that agency or not, and get injured, I am (or at least I was, what happens is up for debate right now, hence the article) covered by workmans comp if I am injured while acting as a volunteer. That includes when off-duty and I see a child burning alive in an automobile (damn you just hat that schit dont you......) or if I rush into a building on fire and make a rescue if I am walking down the street.

    I was chastizing you and your bretheren idiots in the State of Louisiana for being volunteers with no workmans coverage at all- ever. That to me is just plain idiocy and lunacy; but then again with vaginas the size of the ones you have, I doubt seriously that you would ever have the need to utilize Workmans Compensation coverage.
    RFDACM02 likes this.
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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Is this just for cancer... Or if I roll my ankle on a ladder? The article didn't read very well.. Probably bc I'm on a mobile device.
    Griffy- they are dropping ALL workmans comp coverage, period due to the presumptive cancer act.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Griffy- they are dropping ALL workmans comp coverage, period due to the presumptive cancer act.
    It should be clarified that even though the insurance companies are dropping WC coverage, the municipality must still by law, provide such to their VFDs. The municipalities will still be able to obtain coverage thru the state (I forget the name of that source), but unfortunately they'll likely see a significant increase in their premiums for said coverage.

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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    FWD, or anyone that knows: Is there a Legislative effort underway to fix this? As I understand it, here in Maryland, an Insurance Carrier doesn't just stop writing coverage or start dropping insureds in the manner that is happening in PA. Here, the State requires a lot of lead time, with proper notice to all concerned, before any cancellation can be imposed. I am not aware of any attempt to deny coverage here, even though we also have "Presumption" Laws. As the Legislative director for our State Fire Chief's Association, I'll be watching this one closely......
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    It should be clarified that even though the insurance companies are dropping WC coverage, the municipality must still by law, provide such to their VFDs. The municipalities will still be able to obtain coverage thru the state (I forget the name of that source), but unfortunately they'll likely see a significant increase in their premiums for said coverage.
    Yup, just became aware of this within the last hour. I still think all Firefighters in Pa. should inquire of their organization's (Municipality's) status.

    God- what a concept- a LAW requiring workmans comp......Then again we wouldn't have an excuse for vaginal sand.......
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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    FWD, or anyone that knows: Is there a Legislative effort underway to fix this? As I understand it, here in Maryland, an Insurance Carrier doesn't just stop writing coverage or start dropping insureds in the manner that is happening in PA. Here, the State requires a lot of lead time, with proper notice to all concerned, before any cancellation can be imposed. I am not aware of any attempt to deny coverage here, even though we also have "Presumption" Laws. As the Legislative director for our State Fire Chief's Association, I'll be watching this one closely......
    Harve I'm not sure but if you ask our mutual friend former Pee Gee Firefighter-turned Fire Protection Engineer and writer for a national trade journal, he has some insight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Labunghole-

    If I roll up on a scene in Pa, and act as a first responder whether I am a member of that agency or not, and get injured, I am (or at least I was, what happens is up for debate right now, hence the article) covered by workmans comp if I am injured while acting as a volunteer. That includes when off-duty and I see a child burning alive in an automobile (damn you just hat that schit dont you......) or if I rush into a building on fire and make a rescue if I am walking down the street.

    I was chastizing you and your bretheren idiots in the State of Louisiana for being volunteers with no workmans coverage at all- ever. That to me is just plain idiocy and lunacy; but then again with vaginas the size of the ones you have, I doubt seriously that you would ever have the need to utilize Workmans Compensation coverage.
    We do have workman's comp... but it's just for medical bills not lost wages.

    And it only applies when responding to a dispatch for that agency. It would not apply if I ran up on something unless it was in my volunteer district.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    FWD, or anyone that knows: Is there a Legislative effort underway to fix this? As I understand it, here in Maryland, an Insurance Carrier doesn't just stop writing coverage or start dropping insureds in the manner that is happening in PA. Here, the State requires a lot of lead time, with proper notice to all concerned, before any cancellation can be imposed. I am not aware of any attempt to deny coverage here, even though we also have "Presumption" Laws. As the Legislative director for our State Fire Chief's Association, I'll be watching this one closely......
    As far as I know, they are giving notice and not just stopping coverage overnight.

    I know that our union's state association (the PPFFA) is already working the legislative avenues to address this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Yup, just became aware of this within the last hour. I still think all Firefighters in Pa. should inquire of their organization's (Municipality's) status.
    I agree. Even if their municipality hasn't been dropped, they should have a good understanding about exactly what coverage they have in the event of a covered illness/injury.

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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up OK, Thanks.............

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Harve I'm not sure but if you ask our mutual friend former Pee Gee Firefighter-turned Fire Protection Engineer and writer for a national trade journal, he has some insight.

    Thank You, I'll reach out....... With the CFSI Event coming up next week, I should have a chance to touch base with a lot more folks on this as well. I hate to use the term "Federal Intervention" but when it comes to something like this, we need to move quickly to cut it off.......
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    Our county fire association had a lengthy discussion on this when the bill was originally proposed. We said then that people should be ready for a rate hike. It only makes sense that if new coverage is mandated that the companies will have to recoup (or get the money in advance) for the newly covered claims. I, then, spoke with the township about this so they could ask the carrier about what this would add. They ended up switching companies so that the additional amount was not as great.

    The legislation itself is good and I am glad it passed. If people did not realize that it would incurr new costs, I don't know what to say to them other than nothing is free.

    This is a great lesson, especially in PA where the local municipality is responsible to provide for the "safety and well being" of the populace. This being the municipality and the fire departments need to be in communication so that neither is blind sided by such things.

    For those that did not see, I posted a similar thread under the PA forums about relief funding. If you are from PA, I ask you please take a couple minutes and read. I have another follow up meeting with committee members Friday.

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Just as general info, here in missouri, we are required to have workmens comp coverage - and it covers all the medical from an on duty injury. It only pays $35.00 a week for payroll, to which we got a grant to provide AD&D and Sickness coverage such as AFLAC.

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    I spent yesterday afternoon with our Township Secretary about worker's compensation insurance coverage. Erie Insurance covered our department with all correspondence going to our township... until now. They have notified our township that coverage will end August 11th, at the expiration of the current policy. She inquired with several other companies to no avail... no companies will offer WC insurance for volunteer fire departments. The State of Pennsylvania has an insurance pool that will cover us (State Workers Insurance). Our premium with Erie was $9,196 a year; the state's coverage is $12,500 annually. She continuously called SWI in Scranton for 3 weeks before reaching a live person. Our department will now receive all correspondence, and according to the Secretary they are very hard to work with as far as administrative matters. Our Experience Modification Factor is 1.017; last claim was a firefighter checked at the local Emergency Department for heat exhaustion after a forest fire in 2009.

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