Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 133
Like Tree40Likes

Thread: Obviously Not the Only One Thinking This Way .....

  1. #41
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,894

    Default

    Frankly LA, I don't give a Tinker's damn if LA stays or quits. The best part of his staying there is he isn't anywhere else.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


  2. #42
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Frankly LA, I don't give a Tinker's damn if LA stays or quits. The best part of his staying there is he isn't anywhere else.
    That's too damn true....
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  3. #43
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    536

    Default

    What are you loosing control over? A fire department that who's potential is being suppressed by several who would rather protect their ego and cling to whatever power they have? I live in Montana, a state that has no minimum standard. We have some kick butt vol. departments in very small towns because the leaders got over the power trip and decided the citizens were more important than the good ole' boys club at the station. The good ole' boys club complains when the state come up and gives us wildland training if the training is not 100% applicable to our little 2040 square mile response area. They are not smart enough to apply what they have learned to where they live, they need it spoon fed or cast it away as useless. We had training on wildland urban interface and members thought it was a waste of time because we have no WUI. I got mad and said "look, our little town is smaller than some subdivisions they burn down in California!" It would be like state mandated smoke reading training in a three story building to which some would reply "well, we only have two story buildings in town so this training is worthless."
    scfire86 likes this.

  4. #44
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Not familiar with CSD, maybe ESD (Emergency Services District) which is a tax generating entity. Some areas that do not have a city fire department will be covered by an ESD. The ESD is an elected board of trustees that either fund their own department or contract with a nearby city to provide fire protection. An ESD fire department can be career, volunteer or combo. The ESD board will set whatever training standards for their volunteers they deem, many set higher standards because they are paying for fire protection and can afford to send their volunteers to classes.

    Possibly in Bastrop were you talking to people wearing green pants? The Texas Forest Service (yes, third agency involving fire) certifies forest firefighters, and identifies them quickly from volunteer brush fire units with green pants.
    Sorry, yes ESD. These guys were doing a lot of wildland (it is why I was there), but they were full structure departments with nice equipment and seemed to be competantly trained. They did received some funding from TFS but that wasn't their primary gig, and I didn't see any of them with green pants, in fact wildland gear was in short supply.

    I've seen the primarily exterior / wildland VFD's you are talking about on prior assignments to Texas, and that is why these guys really stood out. Decent equipment / PPE and they seemed to be competantly trained with some actual leadership for their departments.

    It sounds like this is just their county fire board setting a higher standard for tax supported fire departments rather than a state wide effort.

  5. #45
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,874

    Default

    Volunteer fire departments make up about 78% of Texas' 1,400 fire departments across the state, he said. Between four and six are killed each year while on duty





    by Rick Jervis, USA TODAY

    Updated: 05/05/2013 09:12am

    Recent processions and eulogies memorialized the 10 firefighters killed last month in a West, Texas, fertilizer plant explosion, but making their names a permanent part of Texas history may prove difficult.

    A 50-foot-tall memorial to Texas volunteer firefighters killed in the line of duty located on the Texas Capitol grounds in Austin has run out of room to add more names. The bronze statue of a fireman with a baby cradled in one hand, a lantern in the other, is one of the oldest monuments in Austin and one of most prestigious recognitions of fallen volunteer firefighters, said Chris Barron, executive director of the State Firemen's and Fire Marshals' Association of Texas. The last name was added in 2011: Thomas Araguz III, a captain with the Wharton Volunteer Fire Department who was killed the previous year fighting a fire at an egg farm in Boling, Texas, near Houston.

    The association, which owns the statue, needs to raise more than $100,000 to build an expansion to the memorial, Barron said. The West explosion — one of the deadliest incidents involving firefighters in Texas history — has injected a renewed sense of urgency to the project, he said.

    "We need to honor those who gave the ultimate sacrifice," Barron said. "The only way to do that is to expand the monument."

    Volunteer fire departments make up about 78% of Texas' 1,400 fire departments across the state, he said. Between four and six are killed each year while on duty.

    Erected in 1896, the volunteer firefighters' statue sits on the south lawn of the Capitol and is the second-oldest among the 22 monuments spread across the grounds, said Ali James, Capitol curator. Only the Heroes of the Alamo monument, erected in 1891, is older. Visitors coming into the Capitol are greeted by the firefighter's towering pose and are drawn to the 138 names etched in the pedestal, she said.

    Names on the monument range from the 27 volunteer firefighters killed in the 1947 Texas City ship explosion, to the 19 killed in a 1956 refinery fire in North Texas, to more recent firefighters who have died battling wildfires. Since the monument filled up, seven more names have been added to a temporary granite slab laid next to it, James said.

    The West firefighters — all volunteers — deserve to have their names permanently etched next to their fallen colleagues, she said.

    "It's a very important structure," James said. "It really gives you a chance to reflect on their service."

    State Rep. Drew Springer said he found out the memorial had no more room for new names last year while attending a memorial for fallen firefighters from his district. He called Barron and pledged to help create a fundraising strategy and line up potential donors to raise the necessary money for the expansion, he said.

    The tragedy at West puts the effort in the spotlight, said Springer, a volunteer firefighter himself from Muenster, Texas.

    "It's our only spot in the state where we're recognized," he said of the memorial. "To have it at the Capitol means an awful lot."

    Before the memorial filled up, new names were added every other year in a ceremony that included an honor guard march and solemn pipes-and-drum dirge, Barron said. More than 1,000 spectators usually attended, including several hundred firefighters.

    It'll be a shame to squander that level of recognition for volunteers who put their lives on the line for free, he said.

    "They're getting paid nothing," Barron said. "We can at least honor them by putting their names on an historical artifact."

    http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2131617

  6. #46
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Why not? What exactly are you bringing to the table?

    Please don't say knowledge and experience, because based on your posts here that's certainly not the case.

    You won't walk away, because you fear that if you walk away, your department will undo all of the "change and progressiveness" you've brought to them, and will actually start fighting fires, and that scares you, because that means that you and your mindset were wrong all along.
    Don't think that the command staff on my VFD would agree. In fact, I know they wouldn't.

    I quite willing to operate aggressively at fires when there is viable property and enough training, experiences and resources on the fireground to guarantee that my personnel will walk away and go to their full-time jobs the next day.

    Funny thing is that VFD agrees with that, and also fully understands what we cannot do.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Don't think that the command staff on my VFD would agree. In fact, I know they wouldn't.
    I don't believe you

    I quite willing to operate aggressively at fires when there is viable property and enough training, experiences and resources on the fireground to guarantee that my personnel will walk away and go to their full-time jobs the next day.
    If the planets align and the fifth moon of Jupiter is rotating on an even axis, that's when you'll operate interior right? Sorry, not gonna buy it. From the guy who has repeatedly chastised interior, or aggressive operations performed by other departments, and has also stated he won't lift a finger to help a child burning in a car, I can't believe there's a point in time that you even get near the building until the fire is out.

    Funny thing is that VFD agrees with that, and also fully understands what we cannot do.
    Yeah, okay.
    The problem is, and simply remains, that YOUR definition of "viable property, enough training, experiences, and resources" vastly differs from the rest of the fire service.

    Regardless of what you want to believe, your thought process and values are NOT the norm, sorry.
    FyredUp likes this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  8. #48
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    536

    Default

    Scary thing is that a lot of the big shots seem to agree with LA, and because fire has changed it is too dangerous to try to save property and lives. What reassures me is that the men and women on the ground seem to be in favor of doing their jobs.
    FyredUp likes this.

  9. #49
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Don't think that the command staff on my VFD would agree. In fact, I know they wouldn't.

    I quite willing to operate aggressively at fires when there is viable property and enough training, experiences and resources on the fireground to guarantee that my personnel will walk away and go to their full-time jobs the next day.

    Funny thing is that VFD agrees with that, and also fully understands what we cannot do.
    So you just detailed for us why you never have to do the job.

    Nothing new.
    FyredUp and Chenzo like this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #50
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Scary thing is that a lot of the big shots seem to agree with LA, and because fire has changed it is too dangerous to try to save property and lives. What reassures me is that the men and women on the ground seem to be in favor of doing their jobs.
    The "big shots" are the ones that will have to justify the risk and the operations in front of OSHA, NIOSH and at the civil trial if things go bad ... and you won't. Bottom line is that they are protecting the departments butt in terms of answering to the regulatory agencies, and heavens forbid the courts.

    Just keep that in mind.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #51
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    The problem is, and simply remains, that YOUR definition of "viable property, enough training, experiences, and resources" vastly differs from the rest of the fire service.

    It very well might. But then again, the resources that I have on hand vary significantly when looking at my two departments.

    Regardless of what you want to believe, your thought process and values are NOT the norm, sorry.
    Not as much as you think.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  12. #52
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It very well might. But then again, the resources that I have on hand vary significantly when looking at my two departments.
    And there's your typical cop out. I don't have enough resources. Don't talk to me about resources. I'd be willing to bet that if you compare my department that fought the structure fire last week against your volunteer department, that your perceived resources are greater than what it appears that I have. The only difference is, my officers, and firefighters have something that you and your guys don't: Backbones.
    Not as much as you think.
    Hmmm... Yeah, yeah just as much as I think.
    Again, regardless of what you think, your thought processes and tactics are not the norm, I promise you that.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  13. #53
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The "big shots" are the ones that will have to justify the risk and the operations in front of OSHA, NIOSH and at the civil trial if things go bad ... and you won't. Bottom line is that they are protecting the departments butt in terms of answering to the regulatory agencies, and heavens forbid the courts.

    Just keep that in mind.
    You know what keeps firefighters out of the spotlight with OSHA and NIOSH, and keeps them out of civil trial cases?
    TRAINING

    If you send your members to classes, and actually train your members on aggressive tactics, they'll have the knowledge they need to conduct successful operations.

    Training is too expensive in LA? THEN FIGHT TO FIX IT, and make it affordable. Don't sit on your hands and make excuses.

    But that doesn't fit with your "I'm better than Joe Smith who's house just burned down. I don't want to risk anything to save his stuff, so I'll stand over here and pass out vests."

    You're the saddest excuse for a "firefighter" I've ever seen.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  14. #54
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    And there's your typical cop out. I don't have enough resources. Don't talk to me about resources. I'd be willing to bet that if you compare my department that fought the structure fire last week against your volunteer department, that your perceived resources are greater than what it appears that I have. The only difference is, my officers, and firefighters have something that you and your guys don't: Backbones.
    Not as much as you think.

    You call it a cop-out. Fine.

    To expect my guys to jump into a fight without the right resources is ...... Irresponsible.

    Have our resources improved? Yes, and compared to many of the VFDFs in this part of the state, we have what some would consider a pretty good rolling fleet, hand tools and equipment.But we are still short of the most critical resource ... Manpower. And with the exception of the officer staff, what manpower we has has very little in the way of experience. You call that a cop-out if youu wish.

    Again, you want to bring my guys into this. As I have stated before, it's not them .. It's me. It's my job to hold them back when the time isn't right to be aggressive. They may want to do what's right but it's not always right to allow them to do it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #55
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You call it a cop-out. Fine.
    I'm calling it as I see it. And I see it as a cop out.

    To expect my guys to jump into a fight without the right resources is ...... Irresponsible.
    And no one is promoting irresponsibility, in everyone else's sense of the word. I'm promoting doing the damn job you signed up for, taking the risks you knew accompanied it when you joined, and doing what your community expects you to do, put the damn fire out, not save the basement.

    Have our resources improved? Yes, and compared to many of the VFDFs in this part of the state, we have what some would consider a pretty good rolling fleet, hand tools and equipment.But we are still short of the most critical resource ... Manpower. And with the exception of the officer staff, what manpower we has has very little in the way of experience. You call that a cop-out if youu wish.
    How many members are on your VFD LA? How many people, on average, show up to a call on any given day? What are you trying to portray as "low manpower?" There's 19 guys on the roster at the department I'm LT at. On any given day, at any given time, we get between 3 and 12 of them to show up for a call, regardless of what it is. AND WE STILL AGGRESSIVELY ATTACK THE FIRE. So what are you trying to constitute as low manpower?

    Again, you want to bring my guys into this. As I have stated before, it's not them .. It's me. It's my job to hold them back when the time isn't right to be aggressive. They may want to do what's right but it's not always right to allow them to do it.
    Sooo... Which is it? You have responsibility or you don't? You're "in charge" of guys or you're not? Because one minute you say that none of this or anything is your responsibility, and then you jump threads and make it sound like you are the all knowing all commanding prophet of your fire department. So which is it? Are you someone or are you no one?
    Fine, I'll leave your guys out of this.

    YOU, get out of the fire service so "your" guys can do the job they signed up to do, not be ordered to sit in the yard and watch Maggie-Sue's house burn down.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  16. #56
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    All else being equal having a common training standard is a good thing. The concern I have would be how that standard is applied and implemented. It is easy for me to say that Every FF should have to take a FF1 course.. but I have a State-certified Fire Academy 20 minutes up the road. I don't live in Texas where the closest one may be 2 hours away. I can certainly see how a training mandate, when it doesn't come with some funding, could break a small VFD due to course costs and logistics.

    How do you 'fix' that if you're a chief in a small VFD and can either send 2 guys to FF1 or fuel the truck for another week? (Assuming you can convince the guys to drive 4 hours round-trip twice a week for 6 months).
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  17. #57
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,894

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And there's your typical cop out. I don't have enough resources. Don't talk to me about resources. I'd be willing to bet that if you compare my department that fought the structure fire last week against your volunteer department, that your perceived resources are greater than what it appears that I have. The only difference is, my officers, and firefighters have something that you and your guys don't: Backbones.
    Not as much as you think.

    You call it a cop-out. Fine.

    To expect my guys to jump into a fight without the right resources is ...... Irresponsible.

    Have our resources improved? Yes, and compared to many of the VFDFs in this part of the state, we have what some would consider a pretty good rolling fleet, hand tools and equipment.But we are still short of the most critical resource ... Manpower. And with the exception of the officer staff, what manpower we has has very little in the way of experience. You call that a cop-out if youu wish.

    Again, you want to bring my guys into this. As I have stated before, it's not them .. It's me. It's my job to hold them back when the time isn't right to be aggressive. They may want to do what's right but it's not always right to allow them to do it.
    Maybe instead of sending you to aircraft and train firefighting school they should send a few of your volunteers to LSU for live fire training...Utilization of resources to the most efficient extent.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  18. #58
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,874

    Default

    How do you 'fix' that if you're a chief in a small VFD and can either send 2 guys to FF1 or fuel the truck for another week? (Assuming you can convince the guys to drive 4 hours round-trip twice a week for 6 months).

    Plus hold down a full time job and maybe family

    Yes they need training just Texas is a strange animal when it comes to that

  19. #59
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,894

    Default

    I guess Wisconsin does training much differently than the rest of the country. The tech college I teach for does offer on campus Fire Training classes like entry level and FF1, but most often those classes are taught out in our district at the fire departments and the only time we head to the campus is for live fire training and roof ladder evolutions.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  20. #60
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Maybe instead of sending you to aircraft and train firefighting school they should send a few of your volunteers to LSU for live fire training...Utilization of resources to the most efficient extent.
    3 of the 4 members that attended that school attended structural firefighting classes ... 1 basic and 2 advanced.

    The leadeership felt that the class that I took was a good fit for the department, but what do they know?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Thinking
    By dvdjns in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-07-2007, 05:42 PM
  2. Thinking of becoming and EMT
    By shadrach in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-27-2005, 07:32 PM
  3. What I been thinking of fh.com
    By backdraft663 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-03-2005, 11:06 PM
  4. O.m.g.!!!! What Were They Thinking?????
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-17-2003, 02:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts