Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 133
Like Tree40Likes

Thread: Obviously Not the Only One Thinking This Way .....

  1. #61
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Double post.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-06-2013 at 02:02 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.


  2. #62
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And no one is promoting irresponsibility, in everyone else's sense of the word. I'm promoting doing the damn job you signed up for, taking the risks you knew accompanied it when you joined, and doing what your community expects you to do, put the damn fire out, not save the basement

    And I do the job that I signed up for. I guess yound I see a fundamentally different picture of the risk that we are expected to take.

    I will do what we can do garanteeing that my personel will be perfectly able to support thier famalies at the end of the fire call. And I beleive that is all the community expects.


    How many members are on your VFD LA? How many people, on average, show up to a call on any given day? What are you trying to portray as "low manpower?" There's 19 guys on the roster at the department I'm LT at. On any given day, at any given time, we get between 3 and 12 of them to show up for a call, regardless of what it is. AND WE STILL AGGRESSIVELY ATTACK THE FIRE. So what are you trying to constitute as low manpower?

    My VFD has 16 names on the roster. of those 16, 10-11 are truly active, and 8 are interior-qualified. The remaining 6 show up for runs quite infrequently, and whne they do, they are generally exterior members. Likely 1 or 2 will be off the roster within the next week or two.

    Daytime response can be between 1 and 5. Nightime response will be, for a fire or working MVA 6-8.

    Take away your IC, and likely 2 pump operators, and that is our interior staffing until AMA arrives with 3-5.

    If you want to aggressivly attack the fire with low manpower, have at it, but don't come crying to me when things go bad and there is nobody to come in and pull a second line or perform firefighter rescue.


    Sooo... Which is it? You have responsibility or you don't? You're "in charge" of guys or you're not? Because one minute you say that none of this or anything is your responsibility, and then you jump threads and make it sound like you are the all knowing all commanding prophet of your fire department. So which is it? Are you someone or are you no one?

    Depends on the department. For the purposes of this discussion, I have been referring to my VFD. I am an LT who coodinates and delivers training with the Training Captain. I assist in developing operational policy. I never stated anything about being the all seeing and all knowing Oz, but I do have a significant role.


    Fine, I'll leave your guys out of this.

    YOU, get out of the fire service so "your" guys can do the job they signed up to do, not be ordered to sit in the yard and watch Maggie-Sue's house burn down.
    Funny, I never remeber ordering anyone to sit in the yard.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  3. #63
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I guess Wisconsin does training much differently than the rest of the country. The tech college I teach for does offer on campus Fire Training classes like entry level and FF1, but most often those classes are taught out in our district at the fire departments and the only time we head to the campus is for live fire training and roof ladder evolutions.
    Agreed.. and I admit I don't know squat about VFD's in Texas. It's just easy for me to picture the politicians on both sides trying to push something that would be very hard for the VFD's to comply with. I can also see OTHER politicians trying to correct the first group through legislation that on its surface sounds extremely regressive.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  4. #64
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    My VFD has 16 names on the roster. of those 16, 10-11 are truly active, and 8 are interior-qualified. The remaining 6 show up for runs quite infrequently, and whne they do, they are generally exterior members. Likely 1 or 2 will be off the roster within the next week or two.
    That's essentially right on par with us, soooo that's perfect for the sake of all of this discussion.

    Daytime response can be between 1 and 5. Nightime response will be, for a fire or working MVA 6-8.
    Again, right on par. We ran M/A to my other department about a month ago for a structure fire, we took 3 guys. We had that structure fire last week, we had 4 guys at 1430hrs, and ended the call at 1700hrs with 10 guys, 2 of which were not qualified to do anything because they haven't finished their classes yet, so they filled bottles. So realistically we ended with 8 guys from my department. We had 4 guys from my second department, and probably 10 guys from another neighboring department. You've frequently talked about mutual aid as well, so where are your mutual aid crews? And why is it taking them so long to get there? The first engine with 4 people to that fire last week was alone for 10 minutes, but I knew I had help coming. Why do you feel you need to wait for all those bodies to be ON scene before you start any sort of aggressive attack?

    Take away your IC, and likely 2 pump operators, and that is our interior staffing until AMA arrives with 3-5.
    You don't need to take away your IC. Remember the other thread? WORKING command. Why 2 pump operators? Why do you need to have two of your TWO of your own engines flowing water right away when you have M/A coming?

    If you want to aggressivly attack the fire with low manpower, have at it, but don't come crying to me when things go bad and there is nobody to come in and pull a second line or perform firefighter rescue.
    [COLOR=RED]Again, calculated risk. If I brought any other firefighter to the scene of this fire, explained to them what I saw, where we entered, and what we did, I would bet they would agree with what I did. If you're calculated risk means you have to have ideal conditions to make an interior attack, you go ahead and handle it that way. I will, whether I like it or not, work with what I have to mitigate the problem. Because, ya know, more often than not, if you actually put the fire out, the risk goes away. Huh, who woulda thunk it.
    Just because you didn't say "Sit in the yard" doesn't mean that's not what you're advocating, unless your conditions are jussstttt right. Fine, would you rather I say "conduct exterior operations on a structure that you could otherwise successfully conduct interior operations on?" Does that make it sound better?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  5. #65
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The leadeership felt that the class that I took was a good fit for the department, but what do they know?
    Apparently not much. They should know they are sending someone to training who has ZERO intention of ever using that training.
    Chenzo likes this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #66
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,225

    Default

    Are you, or have you ever, been an active EMT running on an ambulance LA?
    Last edited by Chenzo; 05-06-2013 at 03:46 PM.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  7. #67
    Forum Member WVFD705's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Woodson, Texas
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    All else being equal having a common training standard is a good thing. The concern I have would be how that standard is applied and implemented. It is easy for me to say that Every FF should have to take a FF1 course.. but I have a State-certified Fire Academy 20 minutes up the road. I don't live in Texas where the closest one may be 2 hours away. I can certainly see how a training mandate, when it doesn't come with some funding, could break a small VFD due to course costs and logistics.

    How do you 'fix' that if you're a chief in a small VFD and can either send 2 guys to FF1 or fuel the truck for another week? (Assuming you can convince the guys to drive 4 hours round-trip twice a week for 6 months).
    I'd say you have sized up the situation very well. In our case, the Texas Forest Service is our main training provider. They are now the Texas A&M Forest Service, and nearly the vast majority of their trainings are held in College Station. For us, the drive to College Station is the equivalent of driving from Chicago to Detroit. It isn't very practical. We don't have anyone on the department that could afford that kind of training. Our department's budget might not even be able to pay for the fuel, much less room or anything else.

    Add unfunded mandates for us, and we are gone. We don't have a departmental pumper (or structure gear or SCBA for most of our members), so even if we do train for FF1, what exactly are we training for? We have wildland trucks and wildland gear. We don't have any hydrants in our area that can support a pumper if we had one.

    We spend most of our time training for wildland fire and medical assists/medivac landing zones. We do some extraction training. We are equipped for those things, and we have people on the department with enough experience to train for those things. We have tried to get Wildland FF certified, and have been trying to since October, although thus far we have been unable to get the appropriate training local enough for us to become certified. No way the state ever provides us a viable option for FFI.

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Agreed.. and I admit I don't know squat about VFD's in Texas. It's just easy for me to picture the politicians on both sides trying to push something that would be very hard for the VFD's to comply with. I can also see OTHER politicians trying to correct the first group through legislation that on its surface sounds extremely regressive.
    That's how our state generally works. Currently, the state sees us as expendable. It is easier for us to get accidental death/disability insurance reimbursed from the state than it is to get training or PPE. With a view like that, why would we want these same people regulating us?

  8. #68
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    WVFD ....

    Thank you for the view of reality for rural VFDs in TX.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #69
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Are you, or have you ever, been an active EMT running on an ambulance LA?
    Yes, was certified as an EMT-B in 1982 and kept it up until 1986.

    Was certified as First Responder in 1998, and retook and was recertified as an EMT-B in 2004.

    I have about 10 years running on a bus plus another 6 or 8 years running first response with a fire department, plus time on the National Ski Patrol.

    By the way, I am also FFI/FFII, Instructor I/II, Inspector I/II, Fire & Life Safety Educator I/II, Driver/Operator Pumper and Fire Officer I since I am sure there is a point to your question.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  10. #70
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I quite willing to operate aggressively at fires when there is viable property and enough training, experiences and resources on the fireground to guarantee that my personnel will walk away and go to their full-time jobs the next day.
    There is NO GUARANTEE in this life except that at some point you will die. If you are looking for a guarantee in this line of work that you will never get hurt then you are in the wrong line of work. There is not a person in the world that wants to get hurt on the job but it is going to happen.
    FyredUp, scfire86 and Chenzo like this.

  11. #71
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes, was certified as an EMT-B in 1982 and kept it up until 1986.

    Was certified as First Responder in 1998, and retook and was recertified as an EMT-B in 2004.

    I have about 10 years running on a bus plus another 6 or 8 years running first response with a fire department, plus time on the National Ski Patrol.

    By the way, I am also FFI/FFII, Instructor I/II, Inspector I/II, Fire & Life Safety Educator I/II, Driver/Operator Pumper and Fire Officer I since I am sure there is a point to your question.
    There is a point to my question, but it has nothing to do with the rest of your resume.

    While working on the ambulance, did you ever run any PNB's? Did you perform CPR in the back of a moving ambulance? Why?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  12. #72
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    There is a point to my question, but it has nothing to do with the rest of your resume.

    While working on the ambulance, did you ever run any PNB's? Did you perform CPR in the back of a moving ambulance? Why?
    PNBs?

    And yes, I have performed CPR many times while transporting.

    Why ... Because it was part of the job.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  13. #73
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,646

    Default

    PNB - Pulse, not breathing?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #74
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    PNBs?

    And yes, I have performed CPR many times while transporting.

    Why...Because it was part of the job.
    Guess what La...searching involved buildings and extinguishing the fire before it destroys the building are part of the job, too.
    Chenzo likes this.

  15. #75
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    PNBs?

    And yes, I have performed CPR many times while transporting.

    Why ... Because it was part of the job.
    Doing manual CPR in any sort of effective manor requires one to be in an "unsafe" situation - standing and not wearing a seatbelt while the vehicle is in motion.

    Well, searching for/rescuing victims and squirting water on the fire from the inside is inherently "unsafe" and it's also..............wait for it............................ .........................PART OF THE JOB!!!!!
    Chenzo likes this.

  16. #76
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    PNB - Pulse, not breathing?
    Probably Pulseless, Not Breathing.

    We would refer to that as a "Code" or "Working a Code".
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  17. #77
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Doing manual CPR in any sort of effective manor requires one to be in an "unsafe" situation - standing and not wearing a seatbelt while the vehicle is in motion.

    Well, searching for/rescuing victims and squirting water on the fire from the inside is inherently "unsafe" and it's also..............wait for it............................ .........................PART OF THE JOB!!!!!
    Well ..... No

    If there is a code, and we are on-duty, there is a legal requirement to work the code unless they have a DNR or they have injuries or have been down long enough to make resisutation unlikley.

    We do not have a legal requirement to search or make entry into a structure fire.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  18. #78
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    How do you 'fix' that if you're a chief in a small VFD and can either send 2 guys to FF1 or fuel the truck for another week? (Assuming you can convince the guys to drive 4 hours round-trip twice a week for 6 months).
    My state appears to be somewhat similar to what FyredUp stated for Wisconsin. There are a number of fixed site "public" training academies across the state and offer a lot of good training opportunities. However, the vast majority of training takes place at the local level, particularly entry-level training that would prepare one for the FF1 test.

    The instructors and curriculum are "state approved" and the classes are often run thru the Community College system for funding and administration purposes. Most classes are free or have minimal fees (usually for materials used - like some sheets of plywood for the roof simulator in a ventilation class).

    Typically, a FD "hosts" the training classes. Classroom portions are held in the station. Hands on portions are often done there too or somewhere in the community if possible. Sometimes the training is a "closed class" for that department's members if they have enough people attending - like an annual hazmat refresher that everybody needs. Oftentimes, the training is opened up to other FDs in the area if there is still open spots.

    It's pretty common for a couple of VFDs to get together to "host" the 160+ hour entry-level training course since each wouldn't have enough new members in need of the training on their own.

  19. #79
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Well ..... No

    If there is a code, and we are on-duty, there is a legal requirement to work the code unless they have a DNR or they have injuries or have been down long enough to make resisutation unlikley.

    We do not have a legal requirement to search or make entry into a structure fire.
    And the buffoonery continues. This is nothing but a "straw man" argument.

    You specifically stated that you would provide the CPR because it's "part of the job".

    Searching for/rescuing victims and interior firefighting is also "part of the job" whether or not an actual "legal requirement" exists!!!!

  20. #80
    Forum Member WVFD705's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Woodson, Texas
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Getting many volunteers in our area through 468 hours of training is virtually impossible. Many of our volunteers don't get enough vacation time to miss that many weekends, and if they did, they wouldn't have any left to fight fire. We have absolutely zero protection at our jobs, and many employers will not permit employees to miss work for anything outside of a major, major fire.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Thinking
    By dvdjns in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-07-2007, 05:42 PM
  2. Thinking of becoming and EMT
    By shadrach in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-27-2005, 07:32 PM
  3. What I been thinking of fh.com
    By backdraft663 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-03-2005, 11:06 PM
  4. O.m.g.!!!! What Were They Thinking?????
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-17-2003, 02:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts