I love the fact that I shot down every single thing he said 2 pages ago and he totally blew it all off. That ashamed of yourself that you have nothing to say?
How much is the fire going to grow in the five to ten that you need to get the ic vest on? Working command can be the difference between a good save and a total loss when shorthanded. However, if you need to practice your investigating skills, by all means let 'er burn down. Hopefully someday the taxpayers wont investigate you for letting gramma burn up in a room and contents fire.
As I have stated it's quite common for us to have a single officer responding. In fact it happens periodically that we have no officers respond to an incident. And as I have stated, fue to the fasct that of all the officers, I live the farthest from the majority of the district, it's very likely that if I am the only officer on-scene for initial attack, there will be no other officers responding.
The fact is I want to command the incident from the exterior. I want to be able to face to face with the crew from that AMA engine rather than give them directions via the radio. And I want to not have to worry about changing channels from fireground to page to talk to 911 or fumblwe with a completely different radio to talk to my combo department if they are responding MA while trying to operate interior.
And yes, i want to see fire conditions for myself from the exterior and walkaround the building a couple of times in the first 5 minutes.
And yes, that may slow down fire conditions interior, or may preclude interior fire attack due to limited manpower or experience issues until the AMA engine arrives. But that is how I like to run my scenes.
If you like interior working command, have at it.
Perhaps it is time to rethink the logic of having the entire officer corps of your Volly FD working out of town as career firefighters. If they are on overtime, or are called back for a major incident, and you are involved at your paid job with an incident there is a real possibility you will have absolutely no officers at all to respond to an incident. Maybe it is time to reward some of your vollies that have shown some initiative by getting certified by making them officers so at least you can have a higher possibility of at least one officer responding or multiple officers to run an incident. Because frankly your current system lacks sufficient command and control counting on one officer to be command, safety, and operations for the entire incident. By lacking command and control it is severely lacking in overall firefighter safety.
We have identified that as an issue, and we likely are going to promote one member to Captain and at least one, and possibly 2 to LT this summer through a competetive process.
We have been holding off due to our low membershiop. the Chief has been very concerned about the officer to member ratio.
That being said, we have been working for the past year with the senior firefighters in terms of training regarding command and size-up. We have been putting them in the officer role during training as well as at scenes as, I have stated earlier, it's happens periodically that no officers respond and they have to assume that role.
As you have pointed out severe weather or amajor event can, and has impacted our ability to respond officers.
Yes I do. Every single one of us took an oath to protect life and property, not the foundation, and not to stand outside while there are victims trapped inside. No department is FORCED to operate as an exterior department. They choose to do so because of lack of training, which is turn goes to **** poor leadership.
There are many other factors. lack of funding to safely operate interior. lack of manpower. lack of a pool to draw manpower from. Distance from mutual aid. Lack of a Water suupply or a lack of funding to purchase adequate tankers.
And yes, lack of leadership. Certainly some of that can be traced to a lack of leadship training as well, which may or may not be available in thier are or through thier state training system.
So there are plenty of factors that can influence a departments operations. To say that they are controlled by the fire department is ignorant.
You have gone on and on about rural volunteer departments not being able to do this or that. This is where I prove you wrong. My department is located in northeast Pennsylvania. Our first due coverage area is just over 25 square miles with just over 1,800 residents. During summer the number jumps to around 2,500 with all the vacation homes. Our 2nd due coverage area stretches into 2 other counties in 4 other communities, and 3rd due into 3 other communities, ALL rural departments.
And that's great.
What's your budget? You also live in PA, which has a rich history and stromng tradition of volunteer stafferd fire departments. You amy also have a young population.
There are parts of the counntry that do not have a strong tradition of volunteer firefighting and recruiting members is a constant struggle. There are communtities, such as my volunteer departm,ent's area that has a demographic trenfing towards an older population with a very limited under 40-pool to draw from.
Again, saying 'we do it in our community and you should be able to do it in your's" is ignorant of the financial, social, demograhic and operational differences from place to place.
My department has 4 line officers, Chief, Asst. Chief, Captain, and myself the Lieutenant, and 6 active members. Never once did we not attempt an aggressive interior attack, in any of the areas we respond to. We have great leaders, experienced firefighters that help the new guys get experience, and we train our asses off.
And our officers are good leaders as well. the members, for the most part, work hard to make the department better. But we are limited, and there is no problem with recognizing your limits.
As far as training most of our members attend training. Many of them go above and beyond. Some don't. Would I like them to? Yup, but I understand that some of them just don't have the commitment to the fire service that I do, or some of our other members do, and that some have family and second-job commitments that limit the amount of scheduled and extra training they can attend. And that is ok as well.
You may feel comfortable in trying to attack aggressively short staffed. I don't. And many other VFDs don't. And that my friend, is, IMO perfectly acceptable.
We get one or two new guys a year.
Somewhere I remember reading you saying something about live fire training facilities are a good distance from you. The closest facility to us is an hour away, others are 3+ hours away. We have a VERY tight operating budget, yet we still manage to make sure our members get the training they need and want.
So do we.
But for others it's a significant challenge, and I understand that.
Again for you to expect that others can do it just because you can't is ignorant.
I've managed to shsoot down every point you've attempted to make in your nonsense. What it comes down to is you are a **** poor leader, a selfish bastard, and a chicken****.
Oh and can't forget the fact that we haven't had a LODD or injury in over 10+ years
I can already hear you saying to them "I would not have committed personnel inside that structure." And the reply..."But Bobby, the house is still standing, and we even saved the family dog. What did we do wrong?"
if it went wrong
In some cases it simply means that we got lucky and one of the bad things that could have happened didn't.
After every interior operation there should be a discussion regarding the risks and the potential benefits of the situation. There should be discussion regarding some of the things that could have gone wrong. And there should be discussion regarding if the resources, command structure, training and experience was on scene to deal with the stuff that could have gone wrong if it went wrong.
In hindsight, it may be decided that making entry was in fact, not a good idea.
The problem is that for any new officers on my volunteer department, it will be a struggle as there simply are very few real world runs of any real significance for them to garner command experience.
And that is where the personal preference of the officer comes into play.
As I said, there have been situations, especially with my 2 previous VFDs in VT, where I have made entry with the crew and commanded the incident from the interior. In all of those situations I knew that I had a strong officer - usually mutual aid - coming in behind me. I told them exactly what I was doing and specifics about the situation before making entry. In that situation there was also a strong framework regarding who was doing what as they arrived on the fireground as part of a pre-arranged plan.
And yes, there have been situations where my going interior as the initial IC has given the crew enough manpower to knock down the fire. So yes, in some situations, it can work.
But as I have said, I have changed my mind over the past couple of years, especially as it relates to that type of operation with my VFD.
Part of that is the change in the fire environment.
I addition, here with my VFD, there may not be an officer coming in behind me. There is not much in the way of mutual aid training and almost no framework for arrival assignments without specific command by the IC.
Again, if you feel that commanding from the initial line is for you, great. Have at it. In my current situation, it's simply not for me, and my current Chief agrees.
In the 87 years of Department number 1, I can't think of a single LODD the department suffered.... If it happened, it happened more than 30 years ago....
Before I came along, they operated interior with less than stellar trucks and less than stellar gear, and everyone still went home....
So keep patting yourself on the back and b*tching at others... It seems to be all you know how to do anyway.