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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #261
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    Grab a pen and paper, come on up, and take some notes. We will gladly show you how it's done.
    Thats what he's afraid of.............
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  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    Grab a pen and paper, come on up, and take some notes. We will gladly show you how it's done.
    When you're done in PA, buy yourself another pad of paper, and another pen, and head on up to WI and we can show you how to do the job too.
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  3. #263
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    I am not sure we have as much to offer in Montana as you guys, but we are getting there.......Slowly.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First assumption is that there is somebody to pass command to.

    As I have stated it's quite common for us to have a single officer responding. In fact it happens periodically that we have no officers respond to an incident.
    So if you supposedly have no one to pass command to when only one officer responds, what happens when no officers respond? Is there no IC for the incident?

    If a non-officer can command that incident, then they could take command of the other incident until the officer is relieved inside.
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  5. #265
    Forum Member conrad427's Avatar
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    We went interior on a hoarder fire a while back. The Officer was behind me and I was on the nozzle. The IC was a Senior firefighter with a ton of experience and training. Someone needed to go inside with me and someone needed to stay outside. Worked perfectly. The state fire marshal even said we made a hell of a stop. We could have made excuses and let the thing burn down but I like driving by the house knowing we made a good stop.......as safely as we could. Oh, by the way, LA how do you make an MVA with entrapment on the hiway completely safe? You know so all of your people wont jeopardize participation in the weekend fishing derby? I only ask because you did not answer me a few posts back. I cant see responding to a crash on the hiway with no questions asked and then not be willing to save gramema from burning up because it is too dangerous for your people.
    Last edited by conrad427; 05-13-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  6. #266
    Forum Member RyanK63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    I am not sure we have as much to offer in Montana as you guys, but we are getting there.......Slowly.
    The way LA talks on here, everyone has something to offer that jackass.
    Chenzo and conrad427 like this.
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    So if you supposedly have no one to pass command to when only one officer responds, what happens when no officers respond? Is there no IC for the incident?

    We have a seniority list. The senior man will take command.

    If it is a structure call, he will pass command to the senior officer of the first arriving mutual aid department, which generally will be the AMA engine from the eneighbotring city. if it is an MVA with entrapment, they will also roll to perform extrication, and once again, he will pass command to the senior officer from that agency when they arrive.




    If a non-officer can command that incident, then they could take command of the other incident until the officer is relieved inside.
    As far as taking command while the officer is inside, I would have issues with that.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    Grab a pen and paper, come on up, and take some notes. We will gladly show you how it's done.
    Learned my craft up north.

    I doubt there is very much that you could offer me.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #269
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As far as taking command while the officer is inside, I would have issues with that.
    Why? What is that a problem for you? Because if you're the officer that means you actually have to go inside, or what?

    What fu*king difference does it make how many bugles are on commands helmet? Say I have a call on department 1. We'll say for sh*t's and gigs, that we have a driver, myself as LT in the officers seat, 2 firefighters, and Fyred in the back. Keep in mind, Fyred isn't an officer. Fyred has, sh*t 30+ years more than me in the fire service.... So we decide that he will be IC, outside, and I, as the LT, will go inside with another firefighter.... Where's the problem?

    Exactly, it's more f*cking excuses from you to justify your pussificiation of the fire service.
    RyanK63 likes this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  10. #270
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Learned my craft up north.

    I doubt there is very much that you could offer me.
    Based on your posts here, the sh*t I took at the fire station earlier could offer you more than you bring to the table.
    RyanK63 likes this.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  11. #271
    Forum Member RyanK63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Learned my craft up north.

    I doubt there is very much that you could offer me.
    I beg to differ. Around here we have real firefighters. We are dedicated to what we do, we are trained, and we get the god damn job done.



    Also, make sure you go back a page and read my nice response to your bull**** responses.
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    - Firefighter 1 / HAZMAT Ops / EMT-B

  12. #272
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    You are so right Bobby, better to burn every house down and kill everything inside.

    Yup, that's exactly what I said (sarcasm).

    Frankly, if I was an officer, or a senior firefighter, and I saved the house, AND the family dog, and you started chastising me for it I would tell you to "Kindly GO F*** YOURSELF." and then I would turn and walk away from you.

    It would be quite the spectacle to be brought up on charges at your little VFD for saving a house and dog because you didn't like it. I would enjoy that very much. I would invite the press in to the hearing. How foolish will you look for punishing me for doing my job?

    That wouldn't be my call ... I'm a LT.

    Would I express my issues with the Officer involved? Yes. With the Chief? Possibly depending on my discussion with the officer or senior man, but what, if anything happened from there would be his call.


    Because no firefighters ever get injured or killed when every single ICS vest is handed out? Right Bobby? Seriously, how can you have such a convoluted view of how to do this job?

    Never said that, but certainly the less command structure you have the more likely something will be missed or a mayday/firefighter rescue situation will not be properly managed.

    You are right, there should be a critique after every fire incident. BUT, a critique is NOT an inquisition to sell your agenda. It is a look at what went right and what, if anything went wrong. nFrom reading what you have posted here I know EXACTLY what this post incident critique qould look like if you were involved. It would be nothing more than you attacking whatever decisions were made by any officer that decided to go interior with the manpower on hand.

    Again, in my VFD LT's do not run post-incident critiques.

    And yes, I likely would discuss the bad things that could have happened and how we would not have been able to deal with them if we operated interior while being short staffed.


    Just curios Bobby, did you chastise your chief for his free lancing use of a fire extinguisher on a stove fire? You know the one where no back up line was in place, command was inside the building, and no scba was used. If you didn't, you are the worst kind of hypocrite. Chastise the underlings and suck the butt of the boss.

    Actually, yes I did. Told him be probably should have waited the extra 30 seconds for the captain to enter w/ SCBa and knock down the fire with the extinguisher (which was the right call to minimize water damage given the fire).

    Yeah, unless it is your chief then you come on these forum and brag about what a great job he did. While violating all the safety rules you expect everyone else to follow.


    Given that he had a packed out member 20 seconds from being ready he should have waited, and I told him that.

    Given that there was no significant smoke and he was 2' inside the structure, it may not have been the best call but it certainly wasn't the worst.



    Frankly, why would any of them want to be an officer anyways? Knowing that you will chastise anything they do other than standing outside and spraying water in from the exterior?

    Ya, once again that is exactly what I have been saying (sarcasm again).

    There is a time and a place for interior attack. Those times can be quite frequent or quite rare depending on training, experience, resources, manpower, command leadership and structure, water supply, response time and access to mutual aid.

    In places like my combo department and previous VFD, those times are much more frequent than in my VFD. I don't apologize for that. That is the reality and IMO that is the way that I feel I need to operate to make sure that every one of my volunteers can go to work the next day and collect a full paycheck.

    As far as chastising, I'm a damn LT.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  13. #273
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Learned my craft up north.

    I doubt there is very much that you could offer me.
    Any of my one-year Junior Firefighters could run circles around you in knowledge, skills, abilities, but most importantly, in courage and dedication.
    RyanK63 likes this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Why? What is that a problem for you? Because if you're the officer that means you actually have to go inside, or what?

    The officer will be the one in court if things go bad. So yes, I am the responsible adult who could be sued civilly as I was the legally responsible adult on the fireground.

    What fu*king difference does it make how many bugles are on commands helmet? Say I have a call on department 1. We'll say for sh*t's and gigs, that we have a driver, myself as LT in the officers seat, 2 firefighters, and Fyred in the back. Keep in mind, Fyred isn't an officer. Fyred has, sh*t 30+ years more than me in the fire service.... So we decide that he will be IC, outside, and I, as the LT, will go inside with another firefighter.... Where's the problem?

    Big problem. Fryed has 30 plus years and hundreds of fires under his belt. The kid that you want me to place in command may have one or two ... 1 or 2 .. working fires under his belt. Who would have to justify that in court or with OSHA if things went bad? Me.

    I have no issues with an experienced member being in command. Problem is we have one or two non-officer members that we can honestly can "sorta experienced".

    You also have 5 folks, which is more than we usually get for a daytime fire until AMA arrives.

    Just remember that you are the officer, so in the end, YOU are responsible for what happens at that incident.


    Exactly, it's more f*cking excuses from you to justify your pussificiation of the fire service.
    If pussifucation means that we reduce firefighter deaths and injuries, even if that means we lose more structures, I'm all in for that.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Any of my one-year Junior Firefighters could run circles around you in knowledge, skills, abilities, but most importantly, in courage and dedication.
    Maybe.

    But I have never worried about being especially courageous.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    We went interior on a hoarder fire a while back. The Officer was behind me and I was on the nozzle. The IC was a Senior firefighter with a ton of experience and training. Someone needed to go inside with me and someone needed to stay outside. Worked perfectly. The state fire marshal even said we made a hell of a stop. We could have made excuses and let the thing burn down but I like driving by the house knowing we made a good stop.......as safely as we could. Oh, by the way, LA how do you make an MVA with entrapment on the hiway completely safe? You know so all of your people wont jeopardize participation in the weekend fishing derby? I only ask because you did not answer me a few posts back. I cant see responding to a crash on the hiway with no questions asked and then not be willing to save gramema from burning up because it is too dangerous for your people.
    Fine. You had an IC.

    Legally that officer is till responsible for the scene, and he made a choice to allow that Senior Firefighter to be the IC.

    But you had an exterior IC running the fire from .. The exterior.

    We are a very young department with very only one or two experienced senior men who are not officers. One is a driver only who I would have no issues with having as IC, but he responds infrequently and will likely leave the fire department when he retires from his job with the Village next year. So for us that simply, most of the time, is not an option.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-13-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yup, that's exactly what I said (sarcasm).

    You've implied it repeatedly on these very forums.


    That wouldn't be my call ... I'm a LT.


    So now you're an officer?


    Again, in my VFD LT's do not run post-incident critiques.

    And yes, I likely would discuss the bad things that could have happened and how we would not have been able to deal with them if we operated interior while being short staffed.


    Why not? I just ran a post-incident critique last Monday at our meeting about the fire we had the week before... Seems pretty foolish not to have/let the company officers run a post-incident critique when they are either IC or actually in the sh*t....


    Actually, yes I did. Told him be probably should have waited the extra 30 seconds for the captain to enter w/ SCBa and knock down the fire with the extinguisher (which was the right call to minimize water damage given the fire).

    Don't believe you.

    Given that he had a packed out member 20 seconds from being ready he should have waited, and I told him that.

    Given that there was no significant smoke and he was 2' inside the structure, it may not have been the best call but it certainly wasn't the worst.


    Back to your same old tactics of changing your story...Again...



    As far as chastising, I'm a damn LT.
    Again, don't see your point... What exactly does a Lieutenant do in your department? Because from what you said in this post, it's really not a damn thing other than wear a bugle on their helmet....
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  18. #278
    Forum Member ToDaRoof's Avatar
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    REALLY LA? How do you sleep at night? Why do you even bother in our business? Was McDonald's on a hiring freeze? You clearly have no regard for any life other than your own; do you not understand that our job is the polar opposite of that? Is it that difficult to comprehend? Why even volly if all you wish to do is corrupt the minds of those that want to be us (that's the seasoned guys on this board, clearly not you, and yes, I've been here before...)? Has it not been dumbed down enough for you, thread by thread, post by post, to grasp a simple concept? You're teaching a group of young men and women to become self-centered yardbreathers, and that the basics of the whole reason of why they signed up in the first place, to put their lives on the line for another don't matter, does that not bother you? Get out of my fire service!
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  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    I beg to differ. Around here we have real firefighters. We are dedicated to what we do, we are trained, and we get the god damn job done.



    Also, make sure you go back a page and read my nice response to your bull**** responses.
    Not going to comment on how dedicated your members are compared to mine.

    And not going to respond to your previous post as I have already answered it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToDaRoof View Post
    REALLY LA? How do you sleep at night? Why do you even bother in our business? Was McDonald's on a hiring freeze? You clearly have no regard for any life other than your own; do you not understand that our job is the polar opposite of that? Is it that difficult to comprehend? Why even volly if all you wish to do is corrupt the minds of those that want to be us (that's the seasoned guys on this board, clearly not you, and yes, I've been here before...)? Has it not been dumbed down enough for you, thread by thread, post by post, to grasp a simple concept? You're teaching a group of young men and women to become self-centered yardbreathers, and that the basics of the whole reason of why they signed up in the first place, to put their lives on the line for another don't matter, does that not bother you? Get out of my fire service!
    No, I am teaching them that there are situations where we cannot change the outcome. I am teaching them to recognize those situations. And yes, I am teaching them that we are priority, and there are situations throughout history where firefighters have been killed and injured when there wqs simply no chance to change the outcome, and that should never happen.

    I am teaching them to train as hard as they can while still taking care of thier famalies. I am teaching them to recognize both the limits of their skills sets and their department's skill sets and resources, and operate safely while doing what we can with the skill sets and resources we have at hand.

    In some cases, that may be quite a bit. in other cases, it may be quite limited. And either way, that's OK as long as they are doing the best that they can both personally and at the department level.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-13-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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