Like Tree435Likes

Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #351
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    WHERE IS THE FIRE? If it is still contained to the compartment (That would be the room for you LA) a fire in a truss building is no different than a fire in an older stick built, rafter roof structure. So once again your idiotic rambling generalizations make you look ignorant and foolish.

    Am I going to send an inexperienced crew in there to determine that? probably not. Change the scenario am give me an experienced member that can read heat conditions, and understand what they mean and I may... may .. change my mind. Just for your info all the truss buildings here are commercial. We keep a pretty close eye on residental construction in both my combo and volunteer districts and we have not seen any residental truss buildings being built.


    If the fire is in the attic space then time may be of the essence. We can buy time by opening the gable end and applying water into the attic space to knock down the fire. We don't have to wring our hands, stand in the yard, and burn the building down...at least not without an aggressive attempt to save the building.

    Never said we would not attack exterior.

    As I said, the only place we find trusses in my VFD's district is in a handful of newer commercial buildings.


    Either way, if there are victims in there we need to make a reasonable attempt to rescue them. I know that goes completely against your grain and I will not apologize for doing my job.

    Depends on the likely exposure of fire to the truss system.

    If I feel that I can not assure my men that the building will not come down on them, I will not go interior, and that includes rescue.



    Geezus Bobby, send them 5 feet inside the door and have them pull ceiling and take a peek.

    And that is a possibility.

    It is YOUR JOB to know the difference between fire progressing enough to endanger a buildings structural ability and one that still alows a safe fire attack. People like you that hide your basic fireground skill ignorance behind bold, uber safety, chicken little, the sky is falling blather are nothing but a poison that destroys TRUE fireground skill and judgement of others and replaces it with generalizations and panic.

    And I am willing to accept far less risk doing that then you are. That's simply my nature.


    We ALL do risk versus hazard evaluation of every incident. The difference is we don't choose to make every incident one too dangerous to go interior on. We prefer to look at how many we can enter, as safely as we can, and have a more positive impact than leaving nothing more than a pile of ashes to load into a dumpster.

    And I make entry when I feel that the training, experience and resources are there to support the attack assuming that the building still has value and it is structurally sound.

    Funny thing is every August I help instruct at a regional fire school where we connect 2 or three mobile homes together and burn all day in them. We get anwhere from 30 to 50 burns out of these trailers. Believe me these fire are not campfires either, they are fight your way down the hall into the great room or the bedrooms. How do we do it? AGGRESSIVE INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK. That's how. I guarantee you many of our fires rival the involvement you see upon arrival.

    Did a mobile home burn last year where we got 6 burns out of a very old mobile home. probably could gotten 2-3 more out but it was getting late and we needed to get it burned down for the owner and cleaned up. But those were under controlled conditions with apparatus and handlines in place and a minimum of stuff to burn in the home.

    Not an apt comparison.



    Your version of it. Which clearly is no one else's here.

    And risk is relative.

    And it also is affected by resources, training and experience of the department you are operating with.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  2. #352
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have the right to do what need to to do to protect our members from injury and death.

    Who here is saying otherwise?

    It's certainly not the homeowner's "fault" that they purchased lightweight truss homes, but we certainly have the right to choose not to operate in them due to the risk that they pose.

    We simply cannot refuse to operate in a building simply because of how it is constructed. We have to do a PROPER size-up and a 360 to determine if interior operations are viable or not. Your blanketly writing off a building because of construction style with no other information about the size or location of the fire is just ridiculous.
    More ludicrous nonsense from you.
    RyanK63 likes this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  3. #353
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Probably not as my primary role is not response.

    Thank GOD!

    That changes when we are short a man due to class, out of district assignment or he is simply unavailable to respond for some other operational reason, or the crew is already out on a run and a second call comes in, but most of the time ... you are right.

    What difference would it make if a guy was out for a class? You said the majority of calls they don't go anyways? They stay testing hose, or polishing brass, or cleaning toilets, while the vollies handle the calls.

    That's not the case with the schools, senior centers and other places where I deliver pubed, but hey, we all know that you think that's a crock of excrement anyway.

    Why do you insist on making your job sound like a cheap azz porn movie? It is Public Education, abbreviated as Pub Ed. Not pubed. Geezus, at least try to make your job sound professional instead of hair around a genital region.
    Just another time I sit here wondering if you really are this much of an idiot or you purposely say dumb azz schitt just to get attention.
    Chenzo likes this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  4. #354
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    On the surface, yes, it may seem like an apt comparison.

    However, the problems and issues faced by a structure fire are much more complex than that of a domestic response by the police.

    The first issue is manpower. 2 LE officer,s equipped with a taser, can safely handle most folks involved in a domestic incident. On some occasions a third may be helpful, but for just about any incident, that would be all the manpower required. There is a single operation .. Control and arrest the aggressor.
    You have never dealt with anyone whacked out on PCP, have you?

    As compared to a fire response where there are multiple issues including such as structural stability and fire spread as well as multiple operations to be performed including fire attack, water supply, ventilation, search utility management/control and potential rescue, rapid intervention and yes command and safety functions.

    To compare a domestic scene with basically a single function which can be handled by 2 to 3 patrol officers vs. a fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.
    Now you are using NFPA standards as an excuse for your shortcomings?

    Face it, Bobby.. Chenzo has you pegged... game, set, match.. you lose.
    Chenzo likes this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #355
    Forum Member
    conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Chenzo, I can just see our hero yelling at a structure fire "Stop Burning! Well, I've done all I can do."

    I laughed my butt off when I read that! Thanks.
    Chenzo and RyanK63 like this.

  6. #356
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    To compare a domestic scene with basically a single function which can be handled by 2 to 3 patrol officers vs. a fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.
    Oh so you want to go by NFPA standards now, huh?? Ok when are those Department physicals beginning? After all, we want to make sure you and all your members are up to NFPA standards, right?
    FyredUp and RyanK63 like this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #357
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Oh so you want to go by NFPA standards now, huh?? Ok when are those Department physicals beginning? After all, we want to make sure you and all your members are up to NFPA standards, right?
    LA,

    In case you were wondering this comment by FWDbuff, just burned your *** to the ground. But don't worry none of your guys would attempt to put you out, you have proven you are far too unstable for that!
    slackjawedyokel and Chenzo like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  8. #358
    Forum Member
    RyanK63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fleetville, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.

    If you want to go by NFPA standards, you might want to read up on NFPA 1001 Standard for Fire Fighter Professional Qualifications. Jackass
    Chenzo likes this.
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    - Firefighter 1 / HAZMAT Ops / EMT-B

  9. #359
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    WHERE IS THE FIRE? If it is still contained to the compartment (That would be the room for you LA) a fire in a truss building is no different than a fire in an older stick built, rafter roof structure. So once again your idiotic rambling generalizations make you look ignorant and foolish.

    Am I going to send an inexperienced crew in there to determine that? probably not. Change the scenario am give me an experienced member that can read heat conditions, and understand what they mean and I may... may .. change my mind. Just for your info all the truss buildings here are commercial. We keep a pretty close eye on residental construction in both my combo and volunteer districts and we have not seen any residental truss buildings being built.

    Then they haven't built a new house in your area for close to 50 years because truss roofs are the norm for type V stick built or modular homes. Unless you are trying to tell me contrary to national trends Lousiana is till building stick built rafter roofs.

    By the way, how do your new guys ever get any interior experience if all they here from you is you are too inexperienced to go inside?


    If the fire is in the attic space then time may be of the essence. We can buy time by opening the gable end and applying water into the attic space to knock down the fire. We don't have to wring our hands, stand in the yard, and burn the building down...at least not without an aggressive attempt to save the building.

    Never said we would not attack exterior.

    As I said, the only place we find trusses in my VFD's district is in a handful of newer commercial buildings.


    The idea is to knock the fire down from the exterior to allow interior ops if the fire has attacked the attic space. Not stand out side and fill the house to the roof line with water.

    Again, I call BS on no homes being built with trusses in your area.


    Either way, if there are victims in there we need to make a reasonable attempt to rescue them. I know that goes completely against your grain and I will not apologize for doing my job.

    Depends on the likely exposure of fire to the truss system.

    If I feel that I can not assure my men that the building will not come down on them, I will not go interior, and that includes rescue.


    Look super genius, if you even read what I posted about compartment fires your responses here make you sound completely foolish and out of touch.

    Geezus Bobby, send them 5 feet inside the door and have them pull ceiling and take a peek.

    And that is a possibility.

    Not if you are there.

    It is YOUR JOB to know the difference between fire progressing enough to endanger a buildings structural ability and one that still alows a safe fire attack. People like you that hide your basic fireground skill ignorance behind bold, uber safety, chicken little, the sky is falling blather are nothing but a poison that destroys TRUE fireground skill and judgement of others and replaces it with generalizations and panic.


    And I am willing to accept far less risk doing that then you are. That's simply my nature.


    No Bobby, unless it is your chief violating all the so called rules and standards you have you are willing to accept no risk. The funny part is you defended your chief's actions. Hypocrite.

    We ALL do risk versus hazard evaluation of every incident. The difference is we don't choose to make every incident one too dangerous to go interior on. We prefer to look at how many we can enter, as safely as we can, and have a more positive impact than leaving nothing more than a pile of ashes to load into a dumpster.

    And I make entry when I feel that the training, experience and resources are there to support the attack assuming that the building still has value and it is structurally sound.

    Which if you are in command is never. We get that.

    Funny thing is every August I help instruct at a regional fire school where we connect 2 or three mobile homes together and burn all day in them. We get anwhere from 30 to 50 burns out of these trailers. Believe me these fire are not campfires either, they are fight your way down the hall into the great room or the bedrooms. How do we do it? AGGRESSIVE INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK. That's how. I guarantee you many of our fires rival the involvement you see upon arrival.

    Did a mobile home burn last year where we got 6 burns out of a very old mobile home. probably could gotten 2-3 more out but it was getting late and we needed to get it burned down for the owner and cleaned up. But those were under controlled conditions with apparatus and handlines in place and a minimum of stuff to burn in the home.

    Not an apt comparison.


    It is an EXACT comparison. My bet is some of the fires that we sent crews in on were bigger than the ones you refuse to allow entry on.

    Your version of it. Which clearly is no one else's here.

    And risk is relative.

    And it also is affected by resources, training and experience of the department you are operating with.


    Yet you refuse to let your newbies get any real world experience...BRILLIANT!
    More excuses, blather and incoherent ramblings from you LA.
    RyanK63 likes this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  10. #360
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,694

    Default

    In my area of NJ, stick built is still the standard. Very very few truss roof's being built around here. And there is a decent number of houses being built right now thanks to Sandy.

    Only truss roofs I have seen going in are on the very few modular homes going in.

    And yes, I am surprised there is still so much stick built going on.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #361
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Oh so you want to go by NFPA standards now, huh?? Ok when are those Department physicals beginning? After all, we want to make sure you and all your members are up to NFPA standards, right?
    Ha ha ha. That is hysterical. Now he's all about NFPA standards.

    More pathetic nonsense from our resident loser.
    RyanK63 likes this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #362
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Why do you insist on making your job sound like a cheap azz porn movie? It is Public Education, abbreviated as Pub Ed. Not pubed. Geezus, at least try to make your job sound professional instead of hair around a genital region.
    Glad to see it's not just me that saw that. I'd really like to know his credentials for being in that position. His writing and grammar are atrocious for a professional in the communications field.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Just another time I sit here wondering if you really are this much of an idiot or you purposely say dumb azz schitt just to get attention.
    I'm going with he is that much of an idiot.
    Chenzo likes this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #363
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    In my area of NJ, stick built is still the standard. Very very few truss roof's being built around here. And there is a decent number of houses being built right now thanks to Sandy.

    Only truss roofs I have seen going in are on the very few modular homes going in.

    And yes, I am surprised there is still so much stick built going on.
    Interesting. I can't tell you the last time I saw a rafter roof built on a house in my area. Well, perhaps then it is more regional than I thought.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  14. #364
    MembersZone Subscriber
    voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    In my area of NJ, stick built is still the standard. Very very few truss roof's being built around here. And there is a decent number of houses being built right now thanks to Sandy.

    Only truss roofs I have seen going in are on the very few modular homes going in.

    And yes, I am surprised there is still so much stick built going on.
    Me too.. On this side of the Pine Barrens, almost everything is truss.. Roof, Floors.. hell, they'd make the driveways and foundation truss if they could..
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  15. #365
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Me too.. On this side of the Pine Barrens, almost everything is truss.. Roof, Floors.. hell, they'd make the driveways and foundation truss if they could..
    For a while around me we were seeing treated lumber fundation walls. They were built on a cement footing and then after the house was constructed they backfilled up against the treated plywood just like they do a cement or block foundation wall. I haven't seen one done in years but a house 5 houses away from me was built like that.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  16. #366
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,416

    Default

    Nothing but silence and crickets from Booby after that NFPA attack. He must be studying his NFPA manuals, or maybe perhaps shaving his pubed hairs..........
    FireMedic049, Chenzo and RyanK63 like this.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  17. #367
    Forum Member
    Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,249

    Default

    GALESBURG —
    Firefighters rescued a 3-year-old boy from a burning house shortly after midnight Tuesday. The child, whose name was not immediately being released, was sent by Life Flight to a Chicago hospital, apparently suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.

    Galesburg Fire Department Battalion Chief Todd Peterson said the blaze at 801 Oak St. was reported at 12:25 a.m. Tuesday.

    “When they got there, there was heavy fire and smoke,” Peterson said.

    He was unsure how many occupants were in the house, but firefighters were told upon arrival the 3-year-old was still inside.

    “Everybody else had gotten out except for the 3-year-old,” Peterson said. “We had a crew go in the back in the area by the bedrooms. They found him hunkered down by a bedroom.”

    The heavy smoke made it difficult for firefighters to find the boy.

    “Visibility in a fully charged house is usually zero,” he said. “You have to kind of grope around. It was fairly hard to find him.”

    Firefighters handed the boy out through a window to a Galesburg police officer, who took him to the ambulance. Peterson was unsure which hospital the boy was flown to in Chicago.

    “The guys did a great job,” Peterson said.

    The house suffered heavy fire and smoke damage. Peterson said the incident remains under investigation. Details were unavailable at press time as to the boy’s condition or the cause of the fire, though an investigator said a night light might have been the origin.
    Heavy fire and smoke means LA wouldn't have done anything except let a child burn to death.

    LA, this is what real firemen do. They risk theirs to save others, because they have this thing called COURAGE.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  18. #368
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Nothing but silence and crickets from Booby after that NFPA attack. He must be studying his NFPA manuals, or maybe perhaps shaving his pubed hairs..........
    Was teaching a class last night and didn't get in until late. Was at a school all day today.

    Now waiting on some really nasty weather to hit us so I may not have much time to post some replies.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  19. #369
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Interesting. I can't tell you the last time I saw a rafter roof built on a house in my area. Well, perhaps then it is more regional than I thought.
    I have seen some truss roofs being built in Shreveport and Bossier, but everything here is lumber and mails. At least for now.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #370
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Heavy fire and smoke means LA wouldn't have done anything except let a child burn to death.

    LA, this is what real firemen do. They risk theirs to save others, because they have this thing called COURAGE.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOCNY9pJ850
    Chenzo likes this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  21. #371
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Bobby's favorite FDNY jake hits another home run...

    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...ot-enough.html
    Chenzo likes this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  22. #372
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Glad to see it's not just me that saw that. I'd really like to know his credentials for being in that position. His writing and grammar are atrocious for a professional in the communications field.

    Certified LA Teacher Grades 1-6, Fire & Life Safety Educator I & II. Inspector I & II, Juvenile Firesetting Intervention Specialist I & II, CERT Instructor, Instructor I & II, Fire Officer I, NIMS 100-400, BLS Instructor.

    I'm going with he is that much of an idiot.
    Could be the idiot.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  23. #373
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Heavy fire and smoke means LA wouldn't have done anything except let a child burn to death.

    Dependent on manpower, training and experience.

    LA, this is what real firemen do. They risk theirs to save others, because they have this thing called COURAGE.
    Not much into that courage thing. More into doing what is smart and right for the crew.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  24. #374
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Bobby's favorite FDNY jake hits another home run...

    http://www.fireengineering.com/artic...ot-enough.html
    Ray is brilliant. I have got to meet him.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  25. #375
    Forum Member
    conrad427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Just south of Canada
    Posts
    572

    Default

    Wisconsin is pretty central. If you can get him to come I will hop on Hiway 2 and drive like hell.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. e-one's essay contest
    By fireflymedic in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-09-2009, 03:50 PM
  2. E-One's new chassis!
    By micke7 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-01-2007, 11:07 AM
  3. This one's for you, Bou!!!
    By Adze39 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-08-2004, 07:35 AM
  4. Really Big Brass One's!!!!
    By Jim917 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-17-2003, 05:52 PM
  5. y no one's been to my site?
    By TFD-JC06 in forum Meet and Greet
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-27-2002, 12:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register