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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    More resume, I see.

    Gosh, you must really feel insignificant and inconsequential if you feel you have to keep posting what classes you claim you've taken and what experience you claim to have....

    Still a blathering idiot.

    Again, made up stories and crayon written certificates from mommy don't count.
    I was asked by SC about my qualifications.

    Stay with the program young one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I was asked by SC about my qualifications.

    Stay with the program young one.
    And you posted that your qualifications are a bunch of certs anyone can get for just showing up.

    Basically, you have nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And you posted that your qualifications are a bunch of certs anyone can get for just showing up.

    Basically, you have nothing.
    Really?

    Last I knew had to take certification tests for both Fire and Life Safety Educator, Inspector, Instructor and Officer.

    And as far as the Teaching Cert, I did have to complete 32 credit hours in the Alternative Certification Program as well as have an existing bachelor's degree, which qualified me for the ACP, as well as complete student teaching module successfully, and take the Praxis certification exam.

    At times, you can be so ing ... pardon me ... obtuse.

    I highlighted to areas where I actually had to take tests or exams, complete practical skills or complete college level coursework just so you would not be confused.
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    Geez I am away for a week or so and this is still going on, No difference except more pages about the same old same old.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Really?

    Last I knew had to take certification tests for both Fire and Life Safety Educator, Inspector, Instructor and Officer.

    And as far as the Teaching Cert, I did have to complete 32 credit hours in the Alternative Certification Program as well as have an existing bachelor's degree, which qualified me for the ACP, as well as complete student teaching module successfully, and take the Praxis certification exam.

    At times, you can be so ing ... pardon me ... obtuse.

    I highlighted to areas where I actually had to take tests or exams, complete practical skills or complete college level coursework just so you would not be confused.
    Given that you show a complete inability to properly communicate using proper grammar while also lacking critical thinking skills, I'd say you should consider calling your alma mater and getting your money back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Given that you show a complete inability to properly communicate using proper grammar while also lacking critical thinking skills, I'd say you should consider calling your alma mater and getting your money back.
    I don't see to see any issues with my critical thinking skills.

    And as a result, I see no need to ask for a refund.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I don't see to see any issues with my critical thinking skills.

    And as a result, I see no need to ask for a refund.
    Of course not. Those lacking critical thinking skills fail to see their lack of them in themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I don't see to see any issues with my critical thinking skills.

    And as a result, I see no need to ask for a refund.
    No, you don't see any issues......Name one other person on here that does not either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I don't see to see any issues with my critical thinking skills.

    And as a result, I see no need to ask for a refund.
    You should ask for a refund.

    Different sources define critical thinking variously as:

    "reasonable reflective thinking focused on deciding what to believe or do"

    "the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action"

    "purposeful, self-regulatory judgment which results in interpretation, analysis, evaluation, and inference, as well as explanation of the evidential, conceptual, methodological, criteriological, or contextual considerations upon which that judgment is based"

    "includes a commitment to using reason in the formulation of our beliefs"

    Considering, based on your posts here, you have a blanket belief that you can/will never make entry (for whatever reason, manpower, structural integrity, fire conditions, because you're a coward, doesn't matter you've justified it a million different ways now), I don't believe for one second that there's no problem with your critical thinking skills.

    If you had any, you'd evaluate each scenario differently, not evaluate the scenario and come to the same conclusion every time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    You should ask for a refund.

    Different sources define critical thinking variously as:

    "reasonable reflective thinking focused on deciding what to believe or do"

    "the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action"

    "purposeful, self-regulatory judgment which results in interpretation, analysis, evaluation, and inference, as well as explanation of the evidential, conceptual, methodological, criteriological, or contextual considerations upon which that judgment is based"

    "includes a commitment to using reason in the formulation of our beliefs"

    Not going to dispute any of your definitions. They all seem accurate to me.


    Considering, based on your posts here, you have a blanket belief that you can/will never make entry (for whatever reason, manpower, structural integrity, fire conditions, because you're a coward, doesn't matter you've justified it a million different ways now), I don't believe for one second that there's no problem with your critical thinking skills.


    If you had any, you'd evaluate each scenario differently, not evaluate the scenario and come to the same conclusion every time.

    Show me where I have said that I will never conduct an offensive operation if in command at an incident at my VFD.

    Have I stated that they likely be limited ? Yes. And there are factors that may or may not come into play depending on the circumstances at the time of the response. The majority of the time, in my VFD, those factors will clearly indicate that structural entry is not safe and should not be ordered.

    Yes, that is critical thinking.

    Are there building types that I will not make entry into as a blanket policy? Yes, based on the historical performance of these buildings under fire conditions in conjunction with the very limited experience and manpower response of my VFD.

    That is also critical thinking.

    When resources are plentiful, flexible, well trained and experienced, tactics can also be flexible and adaptable. When those resources are limited the vast majority of the time, inexperienced, have limited real-world training and have limited flexibility, blanket tactics, unless there is a significantly different response, or a significant change in training or experience or quite appropriate.

    There is nothing wrong with blanket tactics based on current conditions.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Show me where I have said that I will never conduct an offensive operation if in command at an incident at my VFD.

    Okay, let's say the times, based on things you have said here repeatedly, that you will conduct interior operations, assuming you have command are virtually nil. You have painted an incredibly vivid picture of excuses for why you won't, so if there is a finger of blame in a belief you won't go interior point the finger at yourself.

    Have I stated that they likely be limited ? Yes. And there are factors that may or may not come into play depending on the circumstances at the time of the response. The majority of the time, in my VFD, those factors will clearly indicate that structural entry is not safe and should not be ordered.

    See my comment above.

    Yes, that is critical thinking.

    Not really. You have a predetermined baseline belief that entry is not safe so your "Critical thinking" is designed to support that belief. A true critical thinker would be planning what actions the available manpower could do en route, then upon arrival do a size up and determine what option is best. Not predetermine to not enter and look for reasons to support that.

    Are there building types that I will not make entry into as a blanket policy? Yes, based on the historical performance of these buildings under fire conditions in conjunction with the very limited experience and manpower response of my VFD.

    Ludicrous, stupid, and completely indefensible. Cell telephone video is going to hang you out to dry someday if you arrive on scene of one of these buildings to a fire that is confined to a compartment and not attacking the structure yet and you choose not to enter. Hell, even if I was a member of your fire department, if you let my building burn in a condition like that I would sue you, the entire command staff, and the governing body of the FD.

    That is also critical thinking.

    Nope. It is a cop out of a fire officer so over his head that he can't make a critical decision based on actual fire conditions so he hides behind the skirt of his uber safety nonsense. That isn't any kind of thinking at all it is hiding, nothing more.

    When resources are plentiful, flexible, well trained and experienced, tactics can also be flexible and adaptable. When those resources are limited the vast majority of the time, inexperienced, have limited real-world training and have limited flexibility, blanket tactics, unless there is a significantly different response, or a significant change in training or experience or quite appropriate.

    Dude, I laugh every time you post this same tired old excuse. Your vollies are inadequately trained, inexperienced, limited real world training, and all the other EXCUSES you roll out. Yet if you have an incident, even a limited one, your inexperienced guys can't enter unless "The Moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars."

    Train them, utilize the burn towers you say you have access to, let your inexperienced guys get some actual incident experience and most of your problems go away.


    There is nothing wrong with blanket tactics based on current conditions.

    You tactics accept defeat as the first option...pathetic.
    More of the same from you LA.
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  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Show me where I have said that I will never conduct an offensive operation if in command at an incident at my VFD.

    Have I stated that they likely be limited ? Yes. And there are factors that may or may not come into play depending on the circumstances at the time of the response. The majority of the time, in my VFD, those factors will clearly indicate that structural entry is not safe and should not be ordered.

    Yes, that is critical thinking.

    Are there building types that I will not make entry into as a blanket policy? Yes, based on the historical performance of these buildings under fire conditions in conjunction with the very limited experience and manpower response of my VFD.

    That is also critical thinking.

    When resources are plentiful, flexible, well trained and experienced, tactics can also be flexible and adaptable. When those resources are limited the vast majority of the time, inexperienced, have limited real-world training and have limited flexibility, blanket tactics, unless there is a significantly different response, or a significant change in training or experience or quite appropriate.

    There is nothing wrong with blanket tactics based on current conditions.
    You sir, are a poser.
    You have the Internet at your fingertips, a ton of paper, but not much actual legit working incidents to back it up. Your ability to rattle off exactly what you would do at any given fictional or non fictional incident, without waiver, is proof enough that you are nothing more than a snake oil salesman. I would put you at the same level of experience as a 14 year old that was allowed to squirt a reel line at a garbage receptacle. You know, even the D students got diplomas that looked exactly like the A+ students.
    The problem here is that nobody is fooled by your subterfuge. When you get called out on something, your instant reactions are to either divert it to someone else, say you were talking about another subject, or just not answer at all, most likely because you just don't know. Either that or google was down that day. I really hope your peers catch on to you.
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    This is a HYPOTHETICAL situation and question LA, I don't know if you live in your VFD response area, frankly I don't care. We're going to PRETEND (you know, what you do everyday when you say you're a firefighter) that you live in your VFD's response area, and that the scenario below is possible. Follow me?

    Say it's 1430hrs in the afternoon. Your wife and kids are home, you're not at home and unable to respond with your VFD. Your wife just put your kids down for a nap, and decided to take a nap herself. In the midst of her napping, there's some sort of freak electrical issue, and your house catches fire. Your wife wakes up to the smoke detector, calls 911, and tries to get to the kids to self extricate. Unfortunately, she's overcome by the smoke, and can't make it out of the house before she's lying unconscious on the ground.

    Based on your claims here, your VFD shows up with 4 guys on one engine, 10 minutes after the fire is called in. Let's say you have an MPO, one of your officers that is career elsewhere, and 2 guys with less than 2 years on. Your mutual aid department is 10 minutes out.

    What would THEY do?

    What would YOU want them to do?

    Are you going to be perfectly fine with it if they decided to let your family die in your house because they only had 4 guys?


    **Disclaimer-As much as I despise your existence on these forums and in the fire service, I am NOT in favor of, nor do I wish, any ill upon your family in any way. This is a purely hypothetical situation, and I hope that it never happens to you, or anyone else on these forums.**
    Last edited by Chenzo; 05-17-2013 at 11:54 PM.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    This is a HYPOTHETICAL situation and question LA, I don't know if you live in your VFD response area, frankly I don't care. We're going to PRETEND (you know, what you do everyday when you say you're a firefighter) that you live in your VFD's response area, and that the scenario below is possible. Follow me?

    Say it's 1430hrs in the afternoon. Your wife and kids are home, you're not at home and unable to respond with your VFD. Your wife just put your kids down for a nap, and decided to take a nap herself. In the midst of her napping, there's some sort of freak electrical issue, and your house catches fire. Your wife wakes up to the smoke detector, calls 911, and tries to get to the kids to self extricate. Unfortunately, she's overcome by the smoke, and can't make it out of the house before she's lying unconscious on the ground.

    Based on your claims here, your VFD shows up with 4 guys on one engine, 10 minutes after the fire is called in. Let's say you have an MPO, one of your officers that is career elsewhere, and 2 guys with less than 2 years on. Your mutual aid department is 10 minutes out.

    What would THEY do?

    What would YOU want them to do?

    Are you going to be perfectly fine with it if they decided to let your family die in your house because they only had 4 guys?


    **Disclaimer-As much as I despise your existence on these forums and in the fire service, I am NOT in favor of, nor do I wish, any ill upon your family in any way. This is a purely hypothetical situation, and I hope that it never happens to you, or anyone else on these forums.**
    I have answered this before.

    I would want those members to do what they could to rescue my family without taking significant risk that would put their families at risk of losing their loved ones in the operation, or having their loved one injured and not be able to provide for his/her family.

    The priority of the members responding should be going home to their families at the end of the incident. That is what I would expect of the officer or senior firefighter in charge when he/she is making his/her decisions regarding operations at the incident.

    We are the priority, even if the incident involves my family.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Okay, what about an MVA with entrapment on a busy hiway with no shoulder. Maybe just as dangerous as operating interior at a fire, maybe more dangerous if you look at the LODD's. I guess we cant leave them to rot away on the hiway as easily as we let them burn up in a house fire. I know I have asked this before but LA never answered it. Maybe it was not "apt".

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    I don't see how ANYONE can be a firefighter and not be willing to take "significant risk" to save a life. I'm not talking about suicdal acts, just acts that require a certain level of risk. Even a volunteer department that is light on resources has to be willing to accept some level of risk. I am assuming all departments have pumpers, hose, ladders, bunker gear, SCBA ,tools and some kind of training. This should be enough to at least attempt an interior operation. Otherwise, why even show up?
    I am a big believer in education and training programs. However, I personally would never use my educational accomplishments and/or certificates to back up my point in a firefighting discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have answered this before.

    I would want those members to do what they could to rescue my family without taking significant risk that would put their families at risk of losing their loved ones in the operation, or having their loved one injured and not be able to provide for his/her family.

    The priority of the members responding should be going home to their families at the end of the incident. That is what I would expect of the officer or senior firefighter in charge when he/she is making his/her decisions regarding operations at the incident.

    We are the priority, even if the incident involves my family.
    That's cold, that's just ****ing cold.

    Does your family know this is how you feel?
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Okay, what about an MVA with entrapment on a busy hiway with no shoulder. Maybe just as dangerous as operating interior at a fire, maybe more dangerous if you look at the LODD's. I guess we cant leave them to rot away on the hiway as easily as we let them burn up in a house fire. I know I have asked this before but LA never answered it. Maybe it was not "apt".
    This is a good point. I was more worried about injury on highway calls in the middle of the night than I ever was on structure fires. Driver fatigue of those passing by was only complicated by the realization that many of those same drivers were very likely impaired in other ways. Especially on weekends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I don't see how ANYONE can be a firefighter and not be willing to take "significant risk" to save a life.
    May we introduce you to LAFE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have answered this before.

    I would want those members to do what they could to rescue my family without taking significant risk that would put their families at risk of losing their loved ones in the operation, or having their loved one injured and not be able to provide for his/her family.

    The priority of the members responding should be going home to their families at the end of the incident. That is what I would expect of the officer or senior firefighter in charge when he/she is making his/her decisions regarding operations at the incident.

    We are the priority, even if the incident involves my family.
    This is bovine scatology and you know it. You'd be screaming at them to get in there and save your family.

    It's easy to say what you would do while typing on an obscure message board from the comfort of whatever confines you wrote this piece of trash.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Again, don't see your point... What exactly does a Lieutenant do in your department? Because from what you said in this post, it's really not a damn thing other than wear a bugle on their helmet....

    I view my role as basically managing the members according to policy as developed by the Chiefs and the captain.

    On the fireground I see myself as a small group leader, fulfilling a command role when needed but that should not be my primary function.

    I am not a leader. And I will never be a leader. And frankly have no real desire to be a leader. Not my style.
    If this is the case, then you seriously need to resign as a Lieutenant because being a leader is exactly what a fire officer at any rank is supposed to be!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No ..

    You insist that because your department can do it, any department can, and that simply is not thecase.

    Regions of the country differ in terms of dedication to the volunteer fire service. regions differ in terms of how many folks have a desire to be volunteer firefighters. Training resources differ widely from state to state.

    The fact is volunteer firefighting, and the community support of volunteer departments through membership is very different in the northeast than it is in the south.

    Until you realize that not every department CAN be like yours, there is little point to the discussion.
    It's really not a matter of if one department can do it, all should be able to do it.

    It's more of a matter of a Fire Department should be able to do certain things, like being able to go inside and rescue victims and put the fire out. If an organization is not able to do those core functions, then maybe they really aren't a Fire Department and shouldn't be referred to as such.

    This doesn't mean that fire protection in these rural areas have to be an all or nothing situation. If all the community can muster and support is a handful of guys that can only lob water from the outside so be it, but that organization should "labeled" to reflect that. You don't call a medical clinic a "hospital" because that's all the community will support. You call it a clinic because that's what it is.

    Even if you do realize this, there's still little point to any discussion with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, I really don't but I'm not like some of those running around quoting NFPA standards to support the fact that they want FFI as the national standard.

    Fine ... If they want FFI then they need to agree that it is unsafe to use 3 or 4 members for initial attack as NFPA states a fire requires 16 members.
    First, firefighting is inherently "unsafe" no matter how many members are on scene. "Unsafe" on the fireground can often be a very relative and subjective thing.

    Second, NFPA 1710's RECOMMENDATION is for 15-17 firefighters to be on scene within 9 minutes of notification of the alarm. It DOES NOT specify that all of these people must be on scene in order for an interior fire attack to be initiated.

    Third, initial fire attack with only 4 members on scene is an acceptable practice per OSHA's 2in/2out rules. In life threatening situations, initial fire attack with less than 4 members is an acceptable practice per OSHA's 2in/2out rule.

    Fourth, the presence of additional members on scene (i.e. RIT) does not specifically make the fire conditions more "safe" or less "risky". Bad stuff still happens while they are there. Their presence simply increases the possibility that one might be pulled to safety should something happen.
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    LA, I think I know what's happening here...

    Back when I was a teen, and had just started driving, my Mom was terrified of driving in the snow...to the point of refusing to even try to drive in the snow. She was determined that I not drive in the snow either and would have loved it if I was as terrifieds of it as she was. And yes, she said she did this to keep me from getting hurt...you know for my safety.

    I truly think you're scared of fire...and you are determined to transfer that fear to your volunteer members, and any other young firefighters that allow you to do so. For their safety of course.

    I didn't stop driving in the snow...and your attitude will not stop the vast majority of firefighters from going inside to fight fire, and make rescues unless conditions absolutely rule it out. And when I say conditions absolutely rule it out I'm talking heavily to fully involved, near backdraft conditions and/or obviously imminent or ongoing structural collapse. Not 'There's fire showing from a couple of windows'.
    Last edited by fotowun; 05-18-2013 at 08:09 PM.

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    He should change his screen name to "LA scared of fire educator"...
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    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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