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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    That's cold, that's just ****ing cold.

    Does your family know this is how you feel?
    So it's not cold that I should put the needs of myself over the needs of my brother firefighter's families?

    Really?

    And yes, my wife knows how I feel about risking firefighter's lives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Okay, what about an MVA with entrapment on a busy hiway with no shoulder. Maybe just as dangerous as operating interior at a fire, maybe more dangerous if you look at the LODD's. I guess we cant leave them to rot away on the hiway as easily as we let them burn up in a house fire. I know I have asked this before but LA never answered it. Maybe it was not "apt".
    Pretty easy .... Put a blocking vehicle, or maybe evn two blocking vehicles to block the working lanes.

    Or maybe even shut down the highway.

    The primary source of risk is easily identifiable, and correctable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    It's really not a matter of if one department can do it, all should be able to do it.

    It's more of a matter of a Fire Department should be able to do certain things, like being able to go inside and rescue victims and put the fire out. If an organization is not able to do those core functions, then maybe they really aren't a Fire Department and shouldn't be referred to as such.

    This doesn't mean that fire protection in these rural areas have to be an all or nothing situation. If all the community can muster and support is a handful of guys that can only lob water from the outside so be it, but that organization should "labeled" to reflect that. You don't call a medical clinic a "hospital" because that's all the community will support. You call it a clinic because that's what it is.

    Even if you do realize this, there's still little point to any discussion with you.
    We have discussed what a fire department should do.

    The reality is that there are many places that fire departments will never have the funding to purcahse apparatus, tools, equipment, SCBA and PPE to do this, have access to training to do this, have enough manpower physically capable of doing this or have response times that make this possible.

    You can say should ... should .. should ... all day long but it's not going to change the reality.

    By the way, do you have any name suggestions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotowun View Post
    LA, I think I know what's happening here...

    Back when I was a teen, and had just started driving, my Mom was terrified of driving in the snow...to the point of refusing to even try to drive in the snow. She was determined that I not drive in the snow either and would have loved it if I was as terrifieds of it as she was. And yes, she said she did this to keep me from getting hurt...you know for my safety.

    I truly think you're scared of fire...and you are determined to transfer that fear to your volunteer members, and any other young firefighters that allow you to do so. For their safety of course.

    Scared? No. But understanding the current limitations of my VFD in terms of total manpower, training and experience vs. the affects of fire on the structure and the possible affects on the manpower does IMO, put limitations on our operations.

    I didn't stop driving in the snow...and your attitude will not stop the vast majority of firefighters from going inside to fight fire, and make rescues unless conditions absolutely rule it out. And when I say conditions absolutely rule it out I'm talking heavily to fully involved, near backdraft conditions and/or obviously imminent or ongoing structural collapse. Not 'There's fire showing from a couple of windows'.
    Don't really care directly about the majority of firefighters. I'm primarily concerned about the crew on my VFD and my combo department.

    If you think that we should be entering buildings with near heavily to fully involved, near backdraft conditions and/or obviously imminent or ongoing structural collapse, you, my friend ar a complete idiot and hope that you never get anywhere near anywhere of my men.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This is bovine scatology and you know it. You'd be screaming at them to get in there and save your family.

    It's easy to say what you would do while typing on an obscure message board from the comfort of whatever confines you wrote this piece of trash.
    No, I wouldn't.

    People die in fires. Always have. Always will. And many times we in the fire service cannot change that.

    And that could include my family, my parents and my friends.

    The fact is expect firefighters to perform rescue operations up to the point where they become injured. At that point, the obligation to those in the home end and the obligation to their families, especially volunteers without significant financial protection for their families, begins.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Pretty easy .... Put a blocking vehicle, or maybe evn two blocking vehicles to block the working lanes.

    Or maybe even shut down the highway.

    The primary source of risk is easily identifiable, and correctable.

    The primary source of risk at a fire scene is just as identifiable and correctable.

    Get your *** in there and put the fire out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Pretty easy .... Put a blocking vehicle, or maybe evn two blocking vehicles to block the working lanes.

    Or maybe even shut down the highway.

    The primary source of risk is easily identifiable, and correctable.
    So what do you say about the guys that did everything right and still got killed or hurt?
    Also, if the primary risk is fire in a structure, haven't you already identified the risk? How would you ever correct that risk? Run away or perhaps stretch a line and put the danged fire out? Gee, if you put the fire out, have you not then taken action to mitigate the risk to the citizens and firefighters? You said shut down the hiway, easier said than done, thus mitigating the risk. Would not removing victims from a fire also be mitigating the risk to them? You can take steps to mitigate on a hiway and you can take steps to mitigate at a structure fire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    The primary source of risk at a fire scene is just as identifiable and correctable.

    Get your *** in there and put the fire out.
    Difference is there Jr. is that at an mVA, I can block the working lanes with 2 vehicles and eliminate the vast majority of the danger.

    I can close the road and block it, and eliminate the entire risk package posed by traffic hazard.

    Can't do that with rapid fire spread, structural collapse or any other identifiable hazard at a structure fire.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    So what do you say about the guys that did everything right and still got killed or hurt?

    Like it or not, many of those incidents were not blocked correctly. The NIOSH reports are pretty clear about that.

    Also, if the primary risk is fire in a structure, haven't you already identified the risk? How would you ever correct that risk? Run away or perhaps stretch a line and put the danged fire out?

    Assuming that the training, experience, manpower, resources and command structure in in place to manage and mitigate all the risks posed by that incident.

    Gee, if you put the fire out, have you not then taken action to mitigate the risk to the citizens and firefighters?

    Assuming you can do that without putting your members at undue risk due to a lack of experience, training, manpower, resources, command structure or water supply.

    You said shut down the hiway, easier said than done, thus mitigating the risk. Would not removing victims from a fire also be mitigating the risk to them?

    Far fewer factors to consider at an MVA. Shut down the highway and block it. Pretty simple. There are far more factors at a structure fire requiring far more manpower, training and experience to manage if you are going to reduce the risk to responders.

    You can take steps to mitigate on a hiway and you can take steps to mitigate at a structure fire.
    Again, see above. Two very different incidents.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Don't really care directly about the majority of firefighters. I'm primarily concerned about the crew on my VFD and my combo department.

    Um, DUH?

    If you think that we should be entering buildings with near heavily to fully involved, near backdraft conditions and/or obviously imminent or ongoing structural collapse, you, my friend ar a complete idiot and hope that you never get anywhere near anywhere of my men.

    This kind of absolute, nonsensical, made up from the depths of your delusional mind, is exactly why I will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, stop countering the barrage of horse schitt that you spread here. Tell me where anyone here said we would enter under those conditions? Find one quote, find one, from anyone and repost it here. Otherwise, just like you know it is, this is just another diversion to take the light off from your cowardly refusal to even enter a building simply because of its construction type.

    NO ONE, other than you in your delusional lies, is saying anything close to this..."If you think that we should be entering buildings with near heavily to fully involved, near backdraft conditions and/or obviously imminent or ongoing structural collapse." Further, if you are not a command officer, and you have said over and over you aren't, even this part of your comment is a lie... "you, my friend are a complete idiot and hope that you never get anywhere near any of my men."

    The bald face, slap you in the face, make you realize what you really are, truth is this...While you look at every fire, every incident, every call for help, as a reason NOT to act, the rest of the fire service looks at every fire, every incident, every call for help, as an opportunity to, when appropriate, use our knowledge, experience, skills, and courage to do our job and save lives and property. That does not mean being suicidal. That does not mean running into fully involved, collpasing structures. But it certainly does mean taking appropriate risks to do the job. Something you clearly have no concept, no backbone, and no conscience, to allow you to do.

    I wonder if you could ever post something that was factual about what others have said. Or is it you realize finally how pathetic you sound and have to do anything you can to divert from that?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 05-18-2013 at 11:14 PM.
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  11. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Difference is there Jr. is that at an mVA, I can block the working lanes with 2 vehicles and eliminate the vast majority of the danger.

    I can close the road and block it, and eliminate the entire risk package posed by traffic hazard.

    Can't do that with rapid fire spread, structural collapse or any other identifiable hazard at a structure fire.
    And when the jackass driver plows into the blocker and send a piece of fire apparatus flying across the roadway then what? Duck and cover?
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, I wouldn't.

    You are either a liar or so pathetically devoid of human emotion that you are beyond all hope. Will yu not lose one moment of sleep that hypothetical night?

    People die in fires. Always have. Always will. And many times we in the fire service cannot change that.

    Blah blah blah...The odds are higher that they will when before you have even arrived on scene you have already written the structure and its contents off.

    And that could include my family, my parents and my friends.

    You see this is where you and I are cut from different cloth. Those on scene would have to kick my ***, or kill me, to stop me from trying to enter to save my family. You may not like that but that is how I roll. I am not going to stand by and just go "Oh well, just another fire death. No matter, I won't lose any sleep tonight over it."

    The fact is expect firefighters to perform rescue operations up to the point where they become injured. At that point, the obligation to those in the home end and the obligation to their families, especially volunteers without significant financial protection for their families, begins.

    Nonsense...When we enter we enter using all of our skills, experience, and training. You use nonsense, inability, and fear, to find excuses not to enter. Risk versus reward must be our guide. If you are not willing to risk anything you are a joke, and a poison to the fire service. AND being willing to take risks does not mean you are looking to be injured or killed.
    Just more blather from you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    No, I wouldn't.

    People die in fires. Always have. Always will. And many times we in the fire service cannot change that.

    And that could include my family, my parents and my friends.

    The fact is expect firefighters to perform rescue operations up to the point where they become injured. At that point, the obligation to those in the home end and the obligation to their families, especially volunteers without significant financial protection for their families, begins.

    Not only is Bobby narcissistic, he also exhibits sociopathic disassociation as evidenced by this post.
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    his kind of absolute, nonsensical, made up from the depths of your delusional mind, is exactly why I will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, stop countering the barrage of horse schitt that you spread here.

    I take that statement back, I misread the posters statement.


    Tell me where anyone here said we would enter under those conditions? Find one quote, find one, from anyone and repost it here.

    See above, I misread the posters statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanK63 View Post
    And when the jackass driver plows into the blocker and send a piece of fire apparatus flying across the roadway then what? Duck and cover?
    Pssssssssssssst .. Notice how I said 2 blockers?

    The fact is that if you look at situations where blockers, including multiple blockers, were effectily deployed, there have been a minimum of responder injuries.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Not only is Bobby narcissistic, he also exhibits sociopathic disassociation as evidenced by this post.
    Wow .. such big words.

    And yes, I do attempt to completely disassociate myself from the victims at a fire, and the patients at EMS calls.

    They are not people. They are victims and patients, and I am there to treat them and make decisions regarding them as such.

    Cold? Probably. But it keeps the emotion out of the decision making process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Pssssssssssssst .. Notice how I said 2 blockers?

    The fact is that if you look at situations where blockers, including multiple blockers, were effectily deployed, there have been a minimum of responder injuries.
    A loaded tractor trailer unit traveling at highway speed will toss a fire apparatus like a rag doll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    his kind of absolute, nonsensical, made up from the depths of your delusional mind, is exactly why I will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, stop countering the barrage of horse schitt that you spread here.

    I take that statement back, I misread the posters statement.


    Tell me where anyone here said we would enter under those conditions? Find one quote, find one, from anyone and repost it here.

    See above, I misread the posters statement.
    Sure, sure.....(cough, cough, BULL SCHITT!!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Wow .. such big words.

    And yes, I do attempt to completely disassociate myself from the victims at a fire, and the patients at EMS calls.

    They are not people. They are victims and patients, and I am there to treat them and make decisions regarding them as such.

    Cold? Probably. But it keeps the emotion out of the decision making process.
    Your Bull Schitt, lies, and delusions are epic...pathetically so.
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  20. #445
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    You are either a liar or so pathetically devoid of human emotion that you are beyond all hope. Will yu not lose one moment of sleep that hypothetical night?

    Never did I state that losing my wife or kids would not tear me up. But that does not mean that I allow my needs to save my family to rise above the needs of my firefighters to take care of their families.

    That being said, I have a responsibility to my brother firefighters families to not put my needs ahead of theirs. They do not, and never should, have an obligation to put take extraordinary risks to save MY family ahead of their ability to provide for their families.


    Blah blah blah...The odds are higher that they will when before you have even arrived on scene you have already written the structure and its contents off.

    In my volunteer district, if I am the command officer, the structure has already written itself off simply based on my extended response time, unless the occupant's have extinguished the fire prior to our arrival. It's really that simple.



    You see this is where you and I are cut from different cloth. Those on scene would have to kick my ***, or kill me, to stop me from trying to enter to save my family. You may not like that but that is how I roll. I am not going to stand by and just go "Oh well, just another fire death. No matter, I won't lose any sleep tonight over it."

    There is a difference between me taking risks and expecting my firefighters who are responsible for their families taking extraordinary risks.


    Nonsense...When we enter we enter using all of our skills, experience, and training. And we recognize when a department or the response at that incident does not possess the skills, experience and training to safely perform at that incident. You use nonsense, inability, and fear, to find excuses not to enter. No, I use identified shortcomings in training, experience and resources to identify situations where making entry, or performing actions at non-fire incidents, becomes dangerous and not supported by training, experience and resources. Risk versus reward must be our guide. And acceptable risk varies from department to department and response to response based on training, experiences, resources and command structure. If you are not willing to risk anything you are a joke, and a poison to the fire service. Could be. AND being willing to take risks does not mean you are looking to be injured or killed.

    Never said that it did.

    But I refuse to take risks "just because we are the fire department" unless they can be fully supported by training, experience, command structure and resources even if that means (in your opinion) "unacceptable" injury, death or property damage to the citizens..
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-18-2013 at 11:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    A loaded tractor trailer unit traveling at highway speed will toss a fire apparatus like a rag doll.
    Exactly what Fryed said. Maybe down in good ol' LA vehicles pay attention on the highways, but not here in PA. It's a risk we take with the job and understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have discussed what a fire department should do.

    The reality is that there are many places that fire departments will never have the funding to purcahse apparatus, tools, equipment, SCBA and PPE to do this, have access to training to do this, have enough manpower physically capable of doing this or have response times that make this possible.

    You can say should ... should .. should ... all day long but it's not going to change the reality.
    And I have acknowledged that reality, in fact I even stated such in the post you quoted for this comment. I guess you missed that.

    By the way, do you have any name suggestions?
    You looking to rename one or both of your departments?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Pretty easy .... Put a blocking vehicle, or maybe evn two blocking vehicles to block the working lanes.

    Or maybe even shut down the highway.

    The primary source of risk is easily identifiable, and correctable.
    Maybe you don't realize that responders are still getting injured and/or killed even when using blocker vehicles?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Pssssssssssssst .. Notice how I said 2 blockers?

    The fact is that if you look at situations where blockers, including multiple blockers, were effectily deployed, there have been a minimum of responder injuries.
    The fact is, if you look at situations where Firefighters were effectively deployed for interior operations, there have been a minimum of responder injuries too.

    Notice how I said Firefighters, not fire watchers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You are either a liar or so pathetically devoid of human emotion that you are beyond all hope. Will yu not lose one moment of sleep that hypothetical night?

    Never did I state that losing my wife or kids would not tear me up. But that does not mean that I allow my needs to save my family to rise above the needs of my firefighters to take care of their families.

    That being said, I have a responsibility to my brother firefighters families to not put my needs ahead of theirs. They do not, and never should, have an obligation to put take extraordinary risks to save MY family ahead of their ability to provide for their families.


    Seriously, it is the job of, and even more so, the duty of, firefighters to take calculated risks in the course of their duties. I could explain that to you ONCE AGAIN, but why bother? You have proven repeatedly that you are incapable of understanding that incredibly simple concept.

    Blah blah blah...The odds are higher that they will when before you have even arrived on scene you have already written the structure and its contents off.

    In my volunteer district, if I am the command officer, the structure has already written itself off simply based on my extended response time, unless the occupant's have extinguished the fire prior to our arrival. It's really that simple.


    Bull Schitt, nonsense, and just another example of your total and undeniable complete lack of anything close to YOU being an actual fire officer, let alone a firefighter.

    Suppose it is another stove fire? You know the kind your chief violates all the safety rules you preach about. You know, one that can be extinguished with a dry chem fire extinguisher. If you were in command would that fire have led to a total loss of that home? Never mind I already know the answer.

    More pathetic nonsense from you.


    You see this is where you and I are cut from different cloth. Those on scene would have to kick my ***, or kill me, to stop me from trying to enter to save my family. You may not like that but that is how I roll. I am not going to stand by and just go "Oh well, just another fire death. No matter, I won't lose any sleep tonight over it."

    There is a difference between me taking risks and expecting my firefighters who are responsible for their families taking extraordinary risks.


    There is a difference. YOU WOULDN'T TAKE THOSE RISKS, AND THOSE THERE COULDN'T STOP ME FROM TAKING THEM.

    Nonsense...When we enter we enter using all of our skills, experience, and training.

    And we recognize when a department or the response at that incident does not possess the skills, experience and training to safely perform at that incident.

    Yet you do little to nothing except make excuses to change that in your VFD.

    You use nonsense, inability, and fear, to find excuses not to enter.

    No, I use identified shortcomings in training, experience and resources to identify situations where making entry, or performing actions at non-fire incidents, becomes dangerous and not supported by training, experience and resources.

    And excuses are your best friend.

    Risk versus reward must be our guide.

    And acceptable risk varies from department to department and response to response based on training, experiences, resources and command structure.

    And you keep saying that, and yet after the time you have been on your volly FD nothing has really changed in that area...

    If you are not willing to risk anything you are a joke, and a poison to the fire service.

    Could be.

    Actually, there is no doubt about it.

    AND being willing to take risks does not mean you are looking to be injured or killed.

    Never said that it did.

    Yes, you have, with your absolute nonsense equating it to running into fully involved, collapsing structures.

    But I refuse to take risks "just because we are the fire department" unless they can be fully supported by training, experience, command structure and resources even if that means (in your opinion) "unacceptable" injury, death or property damage to the citizens..

    You are right, injury or death to citizens is unacceptable to me. Is it a reality? YES IT IS. But just like you refuse to accept any injuries or deaths of firefighters as a possibility, I refuse to coldly and callously not feel anything at all when it occurs. I NEVER want to be that person. The one who feels nothing, yawns and falls back asleep like nothing ever happened. No Bobby, I don't carry them forever, I couldn't. But I don't make my mind pretend they were nothing, like yesterday's trash either.
    Just more of your indefensible horse schitt.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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  5. y no one's been to my site?
    By TFD-JC06 in forum Meet and Greet
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-27-2002, 12:34 PM

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