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Thread: Hey LA! This one's for you!

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    had a 30 year old mobile home just as described last week, went in 4 feet turned left, blasted with an 1-3/4 as we opened the back door, second team searcned right, hose team eased down the hall,stopped at the bedroom on their left, quick search there. worked the line and finished darkening it down. Pulled the second line in the back door and overhauled. 3 rooms had very salvagble items removed. Did I feel like that was extra risky ------------no -not at all. full ppe, sounding the floor etc. I just do not understand you. And proably more rural than your area.
    Great ... I'm happy for you.

    Given the staffing I would have on a typical fire without any other officers, that would be a very simple no-go call.

    Why .... Doubtful that I would have a backup crew and there is no way that I'm going to make entry on a older mobile home fire without a backup crew at least on scene pulling lines. Call me a Sally, Sissie, etc etc but my folks are too important to put them in that position.

    Experience level just isn't there for me to operate interior without a backup line being in place or very close to being in place.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-15-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Hahahhaaaaa .. I was referring to your position at your combo department. It could go away tomorrow and no one that mattered (the citizen that calls 911) would never notice.

    Thanks for allowing me to clarify.
    Probably not as my primary role is not response.

    That changes when we are short a man due to class, out of district assignment or he is simply unavailable to respond for some other operational reason, or the crew is already out on a run and a second call comes in, but most of the time ... you are right.

    That's not the case with the schools, senior centers and other places where I deliver pubed, but hey, we all know that you think that's a crock of excrement anyway.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  3. #343
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Let's be honest LA, with all the excuses you invent, this is really all you need to ever post in a thread of firefighters firefighting: "Experience level just isn't there for me to operate..."
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Let's be honest LA, with all the excuses you invent, this is really all you need to ever post in a thread of firefighters firefighting: "Experience level just isn't there for me to operate..."
    He wont let them inside without experience, and wont let them inside to get experience. His dept is at the level it is always going to be at.
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  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have the right to do what need to to do to protect our members from injury and death.

    It's certainly not the homeowner's "fault" that they purchased lightweight truss homes, but we certainly have the right to choose not to operate in them due to the risk that they pose.
    Kind of like calling 911 because your amazon wife is beating you to death. The cops get there and tell you it is just too risky because your wife is just too damn mean. So the wife beats you to death

    Actually I might want to buy it that way, at the hands of an Amazon woman.
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  6. #346
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Probably not as my primary role is not response.
    It isn't your secondary or tertiary role either. In any of your so-called departments. You've made that very clear if your writings are indicative of your actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That changes when we are short a man due to class, out of district assignment or he is simply unavailable to respond for some other operational reason, or the crew is already out on a run and a second call comes in, but most of the time ... you are right.
    I pity those unlucky souls.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That's not the case with the schools, senior centers and other places where I deliver pubed, but hey, we all know that you think that's a crock of excrement anyway.
    Pretty much. None of the folks at those places ever called 911 wanting a Pub Ed response.

    Face it, you lucked into some make-work job that sucks dollars off the taxpayer and the only alternative would have been bagging groceries at Krogers or Super 1 foods. Your only travel is when you get lucky enough to have your boss send you to a phoney baloney (for you) class that enables you to go places at someone else's expense since you lacked the ability to ever do anything worthwhile. Hence the reason you could never give up your role with the VFD. It is one of the few aspects of your pathetic little existence that provides a smidgeon of meaning to your otherwise miserable life.
    Last edited by scfire86; 05-15-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Actually I might want to buy it that way, at the hands of an Amazon woman.
    TMI Conrad....just TMI

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Kind of like calling 911 because your amazon wife is beating you to death. The cops get there and tell you it is just too risky because your wife is just too damn mean. So the wife beats you to death

    Actually I might want to buy it that way, at the hands of an Amazon woman.
    Nope .. Not an apt comparison.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Nope .. Not an apt comparison.

    Seems like a pretty decent comparison to me.

    Husband calls 911 for HELP because his Hulk of a wife is beating the hell out of him

    Homeowner calls 911 for HELP because his house is on fire, and grandma is trapped and can't self extricate.

    Police show up, decide that because she's a horse of a woman, that it's too dangerous for them to intervene.

    Fire department shows up and because there's smoke and flame showing, decide it's too dangerous for them to intervene.

    Police have batons, OC spray, tasers, and guns to assist in mitigating an emergency if yelling STOP doesn't work.

    Fire has trucks, and pumps, and hose, and waters, and hand tools to assist in mitigating an emergency if yelling STOP BURNING doesn't work.

    Seems like a pretty fair comparison to me. Both presented with a problem, both have tools and training to mitigate the problem.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Seems like a pretty decent comparison to me.

    Husband calls 911 for HELP because his Hulk of a wife is beating the hell out of him

    Homeowner calls 911 for HELP because his house is on fire, and grandma is trapped and can't self extricate.

    Police show up, decide that because she's a horse of a woman, that it's too dangerous for them to intervene.

    Fire department shows up and because there's smoke and flame showing, decide it's too dangerous for them to intervene.

    Police have batons, OC spray, tasers, and guns to assist in mitigating an emergency if yelling STOP doesn't work.

    Fire has trucks, and pumps, and hose, and waters, and hand tools to assist in mitigating an emergency if yelling STOP BURNING doesn't work.

    Seems like a pretty fair comparison to me. Both presented with a problem, both have tools and training to mitigate the problem.
    On the surface, yes, it may seem like an apt comparison.

    However, the problems and issues faced by a structure fire are much more complex than that of a domestic response by the police.

    The first issue is manpower. 2 LE officer,s equipped with a taser, can safely handle most folks involved in a domestic incident. On some occasions a third may be helpful, but for just about any incident, that would be all the manpower required. There is a single operation .. Control and arrest the aggressor.

    As compared to a fire response where there are multiple issues including such as structural stability and fire spread as well as multiple operations to be performed including fire attack, water supply, ventilation, search utility management/control and potential rescue, rapid intervention and yes command and safety functions.

    To compare a domestic scene with basically a single function which can be handled by 2 to 3 patrol officers vs. a fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  11. #351
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    WHERE IS THE FIRE? If it is still contained to the compartment (That would be the room for you LA) a fire in a truss building is no different than a fire in an older stick built, rafter roof structure. So once again your idiotic rambling generalizations make you look ignorant and foolish.

    Am I going to send an inexperienced crew in there to determine that? probably not. Change the scenario am give me an experienced member that can read heat conditions, and understand what they mean and I may... may .. change my mind. Just for your info all the truss buildings here are commercial. We keep a pretty close eye on residental construction in both my combo and volunteer districts and we have not seen any residental truss buildings being built.


    If the fire is in the attic space then time may be of the essence. We can buy time by opening the gable end and applying water into the attic space to knock down the fire. We don't have to wring our hands, stand in the yard, and burn the building down...at least not without an aggressive attempt to save the building.

    Never said we would not attack exterior.

    As I said, the only place we find trusses in my VFD's district is in a handful of newer commercial buildings.


    Either way, if there are victims in there we need to make a reasonable attempt to rescue them. I know that goes completely against your grain and I will not apologize for doing my job.

    Depends on the likely exposure of fire to the truss system.

    If I feel that I can not assure my men that the building will not come down on them, I will not go interior, and that includes rescue.



    Geezus Bobby, send them 5 feet inside the door and have them pull ceiling and take a peek.

    And that is a possibility.

    It is YOUR JOB to know the difference between fire progressing enough to endanger a buildings structural ability and one that still alows a safe fire attack. People like you that hide your basic fireground skill ignorance behind bold, uber safety, chicken little, the sky is falling blather are nothing but a poison that destroys TRUE fireground skill and judgement of others and replaces it with generalizations and panic.

    And I am willing to accept far less risk doing that then you are. That's simply my nature.


    We ALL do risk versus hazard evaluation of every incident. The difference is we don't choose to make every incident one too dangerous to go interior on. We prefer to look at how many we can enter, as safely as we can, and have a more positive impact than leaving nothing more than a pile of ashes to load into a dumpster.

    And I make entry when I feel that the training, experience and resources are there to support the attack assuming that the building still has value and it is structurally sound.

    Funny thing is every August I help instruct at a regional fire school where we connect 2 or three mobile homes together and burn all day in them. We get anwhere from 30 to 50 burns out of these trailers. Believe me these fire are not campfires either, they are fight your way down the hall into the great room or the bedrooms. How do we do it? AGGRESSIVE INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK. That's how. I guarantee you many of our fires rival the involvement you see upon arrival.

    Did a mobile home burn last year where we got 6 burns out of a very old mobile home. probably could gotten 2-3 more out but it was getting late and we needed to get it burned down for the owner and cleaned up. But those were under controlled conditions with apparatus and handlines in place and a minimum of stuff to burn in the home.

    Not an apt comparison.



    Your version of it. Which clearly is no one else's here.

    And risk is relative.

    And it also is affected by resources, training and experience of the department you are operating with.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  12. #352
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have the right to do what need to to do to protect our members from injury and death.

    Who here is saying otherwise?

    It's certainly not the homeowner's "fault" that they purchased lightweight truss homes, but we certainly have the right to choose not to operate in them due to the risk that they pose.

    We simply cannot refuse to operate in a building simply because of how it is constructed. We have to do a PROPER size-up and a 360 to determine if interior operations are viable or not. Your blanketly writing off a building because of construction style with no other information about the size or location of the fire is just ridiculous.
    More ludicrous nonsense from you.
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  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Probably not as my primary role is not response.

    Thank GOD!

    That changes when we are short a man due to class, out of district assignment or he is simply unavailable to respond for some other operational reason, or the crew is already out on a run and a second call comes in, but most of the time ... you are right.

    What difference would it make if a guy was out for a class? You said the majority of calls they don't go anyways? They stay testing hose, or polishing brass, or cleaning toilets, while the vollies handle the calls.

    That's not the case with the schools, senior centers and other places where I deliver pubed, but hey, we all know that you think that's a crock of excrement anyway.

    Why do you insist on making your job sound like a cheap azz porn movie? It is Public Education, abbreviated as Pub Ed. Not pubed. Geezus, at least try to make your job sound professional instead of hair around a genital region.
    Just another time I sit here wondering if you really are this much of an idiot or you purposely say dumb azz schitt just to get attention.
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  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    On the surface, yes, it may seem like an apt comparison.

    However, the problems and issues faced by a structure fire are much more complex than that of a domestic response by the police.

    The first issue is manpower. 2 LE officer,s equipped with a taser, can safely handle most folks involved in a domestic incident. On some occasions a third may be helpful, but for just about any incident, that would be all the manpower required. There is a single operation .. Control and arrest the aggressor.
    You have never dealt with anyone whacked out on PCP, have you?

    As compared to a fire response where there are multiple issues including such as structural stability and fire spread as well as multiple operations to be performed including fire attack, water supply, ventilation, search utility management/control and potential rescue, rapid intervention and yes command and safety functions.

    To compare a domestic scene with basically a single function which can be handled by 2 to 3 patrol officers vs. a fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.
    Now you are using NFPA standards as an excuse for your shortcomings?

    Face it, Bobby.. Chenzo has you pegged... game, set, match.. you lose.
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  15. #355
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    Chenzo, I can just see our hero yelling at a structure fire "Stop Burning! Well, I've done all I can do."

    I laughed my butt off when I read that! Thanks.
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  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    To compare a domestic scene with basically a single function which can be handled by 2 to 3 patrol officers vs. a fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.
    Oh so you want to go by NFPA standards now, huh?? Ok when are those Department physicals beginning? After all, we want to make sure you and all your members are up to NFPA standards, right?
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  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Oh so you want to go by NFPA standards now, huh?? Ok when are those Department physicals beginning? After all, we want to make sure you and all your members are up to NFPA standards, right?
    LA,

    In case you were wondering this comment by FWDbuff, just burned your *** to the ground. But don't worry none of your guys would attempt to put you out, you have proven you are far too unstable for that!
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  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A fire scene, with multiple functions, which NFPA recommends at least 16 members is simply ...... not apt.

    If you want to go by NFPA standards, you might want to read up on NFPA 1001 Standard for Fire Fighter Professional Qualifications. Jackass
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  19. #359
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    WHERE IS THE FIRE? If it is still contained to the compartment (That would be the room for you LA) a fire in a truss building is no different than a fire in an older stick built, rafter roof structure. So once again your idiotic rambling generalizations make you look ignorant and foolish.

    Am I going to send an inexperienced crew in there to determine that? probably not. Change the scenario am give me an experienced member that can read heat conditions, and understand what they mean and I may... may .. change my mind. Just for your info all the truss buildings here are commercial. We keep a pretty close eye on residental construction in both my combo and volunteer districts and we have not seen any residental truss buildings being built.

    Then they haven't built a new house in your area for close to 50 years because truss roofs are the norm for type V stick built or modular homes. Unless you are trying to tell me contrary to national trends Lousiana is till building stick built rafter roofs.

    By the way, how do your new guys ever get any interior experience if all they here from you is you are too inexperienced to go inside?


    If the fire is in the attic space then time may be of the essence. We can buy time by opening the gable end and applying water into the attic space to knock down the fire. We don't have to wring our hands, stand in the yard, and burn the building down...at least not without an aggressive attempt to save the building.

    Never said we would not attack exterior.

    As I said, the only place we find trusses in my VFD's district is in a handful of newer commercial buildings.


    The idea is to knock the fire down from the exterior to allow interior ops if the fire has attacked the attic space. Not stand out side and fill the house to the roof line with water.

    Again, I call BS on no homes being built with trusses in your area.


    Either way, if there are victims in there we need to make a reasonable attempt to rescue them. I know that goes completely against your grain and I will not apologize for doing my job.

    Depends on the likely exposure of fire to the truss system.

    If I feel that I can not assure my men that the building will not come down on them, I will not go interior, and that includes rescue.


    Look super genius, if you even read what I posted about compartment fires your responses here make you sound completely foolish and out of touch.

    Geezus Bobby, send them 5 feet inside the door and have them pull ceiling and take a peek.

    And that is a possibility.

    Not if you are there.

    It is YOUR JOB to know the difference between fire progressing enough to endanger a buildings structural ability and one that still alows a safe fire attack. People like you that hide your basic fireground skill ignorance behind bold, uber safety, chicken little, the sky is falling blather are nothing but a poison that destroys TRUE fireground skill and judgement of others and replaces it with generalizations and panic.


    And I am willing to accept far less risk doing that then you are. That's simply my nature.


    No Bobby, unless it is your chief violating all the so called rules and standards you have you are willing to accept no risk. The funny part is you defended your chief's actions. Hypocrite.

    We ALL do risk versus hazard evaluation of every incident. The difference is we don't choose to make every incident one too dangerous to go interior on. We prefer to look at how many we can enter, as safely as we can, and have a more positive impact than leaving nothing more than a pile of ashes to load into a dumpster.

    And I make entry when I feel that the training, experience and resources are there to support the attack assuming that the building still has value and it is structurally sound.

    Which if you are in command is never. We get that.

    Funny thing is every August I help instruct at a regional fire school where we connect 2 or three mobile homes together and burn all day in them. We get anwhere from 30 to 50 burns out of these trailers. Believe me these fire are not campfires either, they are fight your way down the hall into the great room or the bedrooms. How do we do it? AGGRESSIVE INTERIOR FIRE ATTACK. That's how. I guarantee you many of our fires rival the involvement you see upon arrival.

    Did a mobile home burn last year where we got 6 burns out of a very old mobile home. probably could gotten 2-3 more out but it was getting late and we needed to get it burned down for the owner and cleaned up. But those were under controlled conditions with apparatus and handlines in place and a minimum of stuff to burn in the home.

    Not an apt comparison.


    It is an EXACT comparison. My bet is some of the fires that we sent crews in on were bigger than the ones you refuse to allow entry on.

    Your version of it. Which clearly is no one else's here.

    And risk is relative.

    And it also is affected by resources, training and experience of the department you are operating with.


    Yet you refuse to let your newbies get any real world experience...BRILLIANT!
    More excuses, blather and incoherent ramblings from you LA.
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  20. #360
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    In my area of NJ, stick built is still the standard. Very very few truss roof's being built around here. And there is a decent number of houses being built right now thanks to Sandy.

    Only truss roofs I have seen going in are on the very few modular homes going in.

    And yes, I am surprised there is still so much stick built going on.
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